Originally posted by UniOmni
In all honesty, the forum rules are laughable.We debate without CIS(the characters personality in play?) and PIS(showings we don't like and wanna throw out?). Comics don't work like that.
Forum rules say CIS does count.
The PIS restriction is probably meant to prevent people from using poorly thought out ABC logic. ie Batman makes Spectre bleed is PIS because if we accepted at he would be far above the street leveler he really is
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Sand is Dust with the seismic abilities as far as I'm aware. Hawksmoor can do more than just that. See above. Among other things Hawksmoor can do that Sand has not afaik.Mr Fantastic is not a top tier. And the Fantastic Four are not created equal with regard to power. See UniOmni's sequential listing of FF with regard to power.
1.) Dust with the seismic abilities and the psychic immunity of Sand is a FAR more devastating foe then Hawksmoor in any City you put him in.
2.) Outside of dropping buildings on people and talking to Cities, there's literally nothing Hawksmoor can do that Sand can't, better.
3.) The F4 are created on equal footing. Each member is equally valuable and equally powerful, unless you want to go out of character, in which case Invisible Woman should be Low Top and Mr. Fantastic is still mid high tier.
Originally posted by UniOmni
In all honesty, the forum rules are laughable.We debate without CIS(the characters personality in play?) and PIS(showings we don't like and wanna throw out?). Comics don't work like that.
Without a retcon, all showings should be fair game, even low ones.
And Superman is more powerful than Diana.
Faster, stronger, more durable and has actual formidable energy projection.
In For Tomorrow, he was faster than her, and wasn't intimidated by her.
In a Loeb issue of S/B, he killed her and choked her with her ribbon.
In LOO, she admitted that she couldn't take him on without prep.
There's a history here.
She's a peer, but he's flatout more powerful. Wonderman to His Thor.
And the fact that he thought he was fighting someone bigger and slower than her is a major factor as well.
CIS is taken into account, actually.
Originally posted by UniOmni
In all honesty, the forum rules are laughable.We debate without CIS(the characters personality in play?) and PIS(showings we don't like and wanna throw out?). Comics don't work like that.
Without a retcon, all showings should be fair game, even low ones.
And Superman is more powerful than Diana.
Faster, stronger, more durable and has actual formidable energy projection.
In For Tomorrow, he was faster than her, and wasn't intimidated by her.
In a Loeb issue of S/B, he killed her and choked her with her ribbon.
In LOO, she admitted that she couldn't take him on without prep.
There's a history here.
She's a peer, but he's flatout more powerful. Wonderman to His Thor.
And the fact that he thought he was fighting someone bigger and slower than her is a major factor as well.
Actually Doomsday is NOT slower than Diana. ANd he thought he was fighting someone Bigger, stronger, and More Durable. Superman is PIS when it comes to all other DC characters. Period. He is thier Plot Induced Stupidity. Becuz they never use half of thier powers or potential when around him. And Diana says she can't take Superman out without prep and yet she is prep. She already has thousands of battle scenarios in her head. She didn't have prep when she cut his chin into ribbons. Take Superman out of the equation when measuring DC heroes by feats and it will be much fairer in my opinion.
DD vs Diana is shows of speed = Diana all day long. It shouldn't be this hard man.
And to Batshit......I know CIS is taken into account, but that's what so laughable about it.
CIS is basically the personality of the characters we debate.
Take the personality away, and we debate powersets.
Tis laughable man.
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
That he doesn't even know how to use.It'd be like putting Elixer into top tier because he's an Omega.
Hold up. I never claimed to have any knowledge of what Hawksmoor's limitations are.
All I know about him are his wiki bio and the respect thread. You asked for something beyond talking to cities and dropping buildings on people. I gave you the first feat of his that fits that description that popped to mind.
Originally posted by UniOmni
DD vs Diana is shows of speed = Diana all day long. It shouldn't be this hard man.And to Batshit......I know CIS is taken into account, but that's what so laughable about it.
CIS is basically the personality of the characters we debate.
Take the personality away, and we debate powersets.Tis laughable man.
IF DD were slower as you like to Suggest, THen Superman would be all over him and DD would never land a punch or Speedblitz Clark the way he does. Superman THought he was fighting a Superior Opponent.
Originally posted by batdude123
Because he belongs there.Christ, read the last few pages. Uni's pretty much hit the nail on the head.
And J'onn isn't getting a bump to the elite high tier level anytime soon, so you might as well save it.
Becuz of Superman. He ruins the Entire awesome cast of DC becuz everyone is cast in his shadow. Take Superman Out and DC would be as versatile and varied in thier power showings as marvel is. marvel Actually deserves more High Tier rankings. Some of thier people are being down played. There isn't anything in Superman's arsenal that BRB, Gladiator, Or Quasar shouldn't be able to replicate.
Originally posted by UniOmni
Name all the times DD has used true Superspeed.I'll start you off, and it's hard to tell at that.
DOS, when he "blitzed" the Giffen league.
Now you go.
He also blizted DS. At any rate, your simply trying to down play the fact that clark thought he was fighting Doomsday who happened to have murdered his wife. Wonder Woman did EXTREMELY well under those circumstances. SUperman is PIS for Everyone in DC. Period.
Originally posted by batdude123
Because he belongs there.Christ, read the last few pages. Uni's pretty much hit the nail on the head.
And J'onn isn't getting a bump to the elite high tier level anytime soon, so you might as well save it.
He should get there based on versatility alone.He is always shown as a top physical character whilst showing to be atleast in the top 3 telepathic heroes in comicdo.H can phase,turn invisible, has 11 senses,Fairly good energy projection,complete molecular control and has resisted world wide reality warps.
he should be higher.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Hold up. I never claimed to have any knowledge of what Hawksmoor's limitations are.All I know about him are his wiki bio and the respect thread. You asked for something beyond talking to cities and dropping buildings on people. I gave you the first feat of his that fits that description that popped to mind.
I'm not coming down on you or anything I'm just telling you why you shouldn't use the feat. He can't do it. It was a one time thing that he was designed to do subconsciously and never again.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He also blizted DS. At any rate, your simply trying to down play the fact that clark thought he was fighting Doomsday who happened to have murdered his wife. Wonder Woman did EXTREMELY well under those circumstances. SUperman is PIS for Everyone in DC. Period.
In what story did he blitz Darkseid?
Wasn't H/P, thats for sure.