Originally posted by Validus
STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, [b]Kyle RaynerUniOmni deserves a ban. [/B]
You sir, live in a green hued bubble of ignorance.
And the level between herald and skyfather is above the top tier.
Then again, i don't believe that herald level is synonmous with top tier.
Originally posted by capt it up
no he was originally 10 to 15 tons and was upgraded further. he always been a lot stronger then beast.......
that may have been true before he became the mirror of wolverine. once he was conceptualized in that manner, he became wolverine+ in all manners. he was bigger, stronger, could heal just the same, and the biggest difference was that he was driven entirely by his killer instincts while wolverine constantly kept them in check. that is how his character was imagined to be once he made it into x-men comics. he wasn't a 10 tonner, he was just strong enough to be noticeably better than logan. that was the entire concept of the character. he was upgraded, yes, but he isn't at spider-man's level.
and beast was possessed of class 70ish strength at one point, so he hasn't "always" been stronger. i would hesitate to say he's at all stronger even now, with beast's strength still ambiguously low.
Originally posted by Disappear
that may have been true before he became the mirror of wolverine. once he was conceptualized in that manner, he became wolverine+ in all manners. he was bigger, stronger, could heal just the same, and the biggest difference was that he was driven entirely by his killer instincts while wolverine constantly kept them in check. that is how his character was imagined to be once he made it into x-men comics. he wasn't a 10 tonner, he was just strong enough to be noticeably better than logan. that was the entire concept of the character. he was upgraded, yes, but he isn't at spider-man's level.and beast was possessed of class 70ish strength at one point, so he hasn't "always" been stronger. i would hesitate to say he's at all stronger even now, with beast's strength still ambiguously low.
no sabertooth was made to be spidermans strength level back then or higher. He fist fought mrs. marvel hit for hit.
He foguht omega red to a stand still showing to be just as strong.
when he fought spiderman it seem as if sabertooth was actaully the stronger of the two
he has always been show as spidermans level of strength or higher pre up grades.
beast was exposed to a brand corporation retromutagen, the touch of pestilence, and a kiss from infectia in rapid succession, which caused his power level to settle remarkably higher than his classic level. he was sending shockwaves through the street just by pounding on it, a classic thing move. the writers and editors at the time mentioned later that they meant for beast's power increase to remain permanently at thing-level [class 70, more or less] but it was quickly forgotten and severely downsized without explanation by future creative teams.
and sabretooth jobs as much as wolverine. just because logan went pound for pound with namor doesn't mean he's a 100-tonner. the sabretooth/wolverine constrast was always closer to a spider-man/venom than a batman/superman.
Originally posted by Disappear
beast was exposed to a brand corporation retromutagen, the touch of pestilence, and a kiss from infectia in rapid succession, which caused his power level to settle remarkably higher than his classic level. he was sending shockwaves through the street just by pounding on it, a classic thing move. the writers and editors at the time mentioned later that they meant for beast's power increase to remain permanently at thing-level [class 70, more or less] but it was quickly forgotten and severely downsized without explanation by future creative teams.and sabretooth jobs as much as wolverine. just because logan went pound for pound with namor doesn't mean he's a 100-tonner. the sabretooth/wolverine constrast was always closer to a spider-man/venom than a batman/superman.
umm wolverine stabbs namor not punches. saberooth was punching mrs. marvel and it had nothing to do with jobbing. He always been shown to be amazingly strong.
also venom is like a class 60. so ya it would make sence that wolverine/sabertooth is like spiderman/venom.
venom is far stronger then spiderman.
actaully I ehard venom is 80 tons now.
Bumping the actual list, and also adding a category (barring objections). Other random additions.
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate
HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod
SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)
Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan
MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin
ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist
STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster
...
I'm tempted to bump Alan Scott and Doomsday (certain versions) to the Sub-Skyfather category.
And honestly, I'm fine with Spidey being considered upper-level enhanced. Because bumping him to mid-tier would mean bringing along a lot of others.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Bumping the actual list, and also adding a category (barring objections). Other random additions.SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, DarkseidHERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Darkseid, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General ZodSUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)
Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, VulcanMID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, ToxinENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron FistSTREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster...
I'm tempted to bump Alan Scott and Doomsday (certain versions) to the Sub-Skyfather category.
And honestly, I'm fine with Spidey being considered upper-level enhanced. Because bumping him to mid-tier would mean bringing along a lot of others.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Maybe you should remake this thread so that you can edit the begining rather than a list thats mid way through the thread.
Meh, maybe eventually. But there will likely be lots more additions and I also don't want to step on leo's toes. But that will be something to consider in the future.
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion
HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl
SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl
MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad
ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist
STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster
Originally posted by Validus
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current IonHERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, SupergirlSUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, martian manhunter, captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Ultra Boy, Matrix SupergirlMID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning LadENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron FistSTREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster
I mostly agree, but where's Kyle Rayner in the street bracket? 🙂
And Dr.Strange is now fighting ninjas, so he's next to Rayner as well.
And Stardust belongs in the above the top tier bracket.
He's not exemplary, except for his uber durability and regeneration. That's all.