Who better to tier heroes . . .?

in spider-man's 2004 handbook, venom's listed specifically at 11 tons, establishing that at that point he was just a hair stronger than spider-man [who was then at ten tons.] if you can get me factual numerical evidence of him being 60-80 tons, go ahead.

sabretooth was originally cited at 900 pounds, which was just a hair over peak human strength [wolverine's original conceptual strength.] both are markedly stronger, sabretooth more so, but he's not pressing 20 tons. i don't think you have the right concept of just how much weight that is for a villain, particularly when terms like 90 and 100-tonner get thrown around all the time. it's just out of his strength range.

ya hand books are the sittiest evidence.

actaully logan was originally stated at 500 ton's then they realized how bad the original hand book was and he was moved to 800-2 ton range.

sabertooth was not even in the original hand book........

I am sorry, but hand books are not evidence.....would you like me to list comics were he matches people in 10 ranges with pure strength...

I've never seen Creed pull off a 20ton feet. His strength varies writer to writer, but I'd give him a 5-10 ton strength rating.

Maybe more. He once grabbed a ten pound iron barbell and crumbled it up into a ball.

Originally posted by long pig
I've never seen Creed pull off a 20ton feet. His strength varies writer to writer, but I'd give him a 5-10 ton strength rating.

Maybe more. He once grabbed a ten pound iron barbell and crumbled it up into a ball.

when he was simply 10 to 15 ton range he fist fought mrs. marvel to a stand still

he over powered omega red who is 15 tonner.

he had multiable upgrades to his strength since these events. I have limited information on sabertooth solo series, but jinzin can tell you more.

SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), , The Mask

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo,Martian Manhunter,Fernus
SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)(Mar-Vell is easily herald), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher

Originally posted by Martian_mind
SUB-SKYFATHER
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (?), The Doctor, Mangog, Darkseid, Dr. Fate, Current Ion, The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), , The Mask

HERALD
morg, terrax, strong lanterns, thor, sentry, Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Alan Scott, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo,Martian Manhunter,Fernus
SUB-HERALD
magneto, apocalypse, , captain atom, sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell(?)(Mar-Vell is easily herald), Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Box, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Steel, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union

MID-TIER
ironman, colossus, thing, starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, ms. marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy

ENHANCED
wolverine, killer croc, luke cage, deathstroke, spider-man, Venom, Midnighter, angel, sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit

STREET
batman, daredevil, nightwing, hawkeye, moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Electra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher

Cap is enhanced he has the SSS.

SilverSamurai for enchanced (Class10 strength, teleportation ring, can cut anything but adamantium)

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap is enhanced he has the SSS.

He's enchanced human but still stree level.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
SilverSamurai for enchanced (Class10 strength, teleportation ring, can cut anything but adamantium)

He's enchanced human but still stree level.

That depends on your defintion of street level. You know that Beast and Gambit are classified as enhanced?

Originally posted by Alfheim
That depends on your defintion of street level. You know that Beast and Gambit are classified as enhanced?

Beast is well above human peak in several areas and Gambit can make anything he touches explode.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Beast is well above human peak in several areas

So is Cap...... *waits for it*

Originally posted by Alfheim
So is Cap...... *waits for it*

Currently Beast is above even that however. He has an HF, genius IQ, enchanced senses and he's much stronger than Cap is.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Currently Beast is above even that however. He has an HF, genius IQ, enchanced senses and he's much stronger than Cap is.

Well ok but you do know that Cap does not have peak human strength either...same wth his durability. My point is your defintion for street level is that somebody has to be at maximum peak human level. Cap is above that so according to your definiton Cap should be enhanced regardless of what level Beast is on.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well ok but you do know that Cap does not have peak human strength either...same wth his durability. My point is your defintion for street level is that somebody has to be at maximum peak human level. Cap is above that so according to your definiton Cap should be enhanced regardless of what level Beast is on.

But Cap can't fight evenly with the people on enchanced level.

I was using your definition btw.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But Cap can't fight evenly with the people on enchanced level.

Well he could probably beat Beast soundly for starters.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

I was using your definition btw.

Yeah you're right actually you just thought that Cap was peak human.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well he could probably beat Beast soundly for starters.

Only due to skill not due to power.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Only due to skill not due to power.

Yeah so. That still doesnt stop cap from being above peak human.

OCD compelled me to alphabetize and pretty up the most recent list (shuffling or adding one or two). 313

SUB-SKYFATHER
Darkseid, Despero, The Doctor, Doctor Fate, Doctor Strange,
The General (Shaggy Man) Ion (current), The Keeper, Mangog,
The Mask, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down)

HERALD
Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Adam Warlock, Alan Scott, Apollo,
Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Captain Marvel (DC),
Doomsday, Firelord, Eradicator, Gladiator, General Zod,
Graviton, Green Lantern, Hyperion, Infinity Man, Lobo, Loki,
Majestic, Mar-Vell, Martian Manhunter, Mon-El, Morg, Orion,
Quasar, Sentry, Silver Surfer, Stardust, Supergirl, Superman,
Superman Blue/Red, Terrax, Thor

SUB-HERALD
Animal Man, Apocalypse, Aquaman, Black Bolt, Box, Breach,
Cable (FP), Captain Atom, Darkness, Doctor Doom (w/magic),
Doctor Light, Engineer, Exodus, He-Man, Hercules (immortal),
Holocaust, Hulk, Jack Hawksmoor (city), Juggernaut, Invincible,
Karate Kid, Magneto, Mandarin, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan,
Nate Grey, Pitt, Raven, Sersi, Shaman, Steel, Superboy,
Super Skrull, Ultra Boy, Ultron, Union, Vision, Vulcan,
Wonder Woman

MID-TIER
Abomination, Atom Smasher, Beast Boy, Blastaar,
Captain Britain, Colossus, Crystal, Cyborg, Deathlok,
Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Gamora, Guardian (I), Ghost Rider,
Havok, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Human Torch, Invisible Woman,
Iron-Man, Lightning Lad, Maul, Mimic (eXiles), Mister Sinister,
Ms Marvel, Namor, Nova (classic), Omega Red, Psylocke,
Rachel Summers, Rogue, Sasquatch, She-Hulk, Speedfreek,
Starfire, Storm, Thing, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin,
War Machine, Wonder Girl, Wonder Man

ENHANCED
Angel, Azrael, Beast, Bruenor Battlehammer, Bullseye, Cyclops,
Deathstroke, Drizzt Do'Urden, Gambit, Iron Fist, Killer Croc,
Lady Deathstrike, Luke Cage, Midnighter, Morlun, Mystique,
Sabretooth, Spider-Man, Venom, Wolverine, Wulfgar

STREET
Arsenal, Batgirl, Batman, Black Panther, Captain America,
Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Grifter, Hawkeye, Nick Fury,
Nightwing, Moon Knight, Punisher, Swift, Taskmaster, Turok,
Wildcat,

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah so. That still doesnt stop cap from being above peak human.

really now when was he ever stated as being above peakhuman........

honestly please tell me were it ever been stated........

Originally posted by capt it up
really now when was he ever stated as being above peakhuman........

honestly please tell me were it ever been stated........

It doesnt have to be stated anywhere????? How much can Namor lift out of water and in water. *waits for it*

OOps- i made a mistake but i will recover hehe

Is Current ION really sub skyfather,-i love his character but,not according to his new series,and they make it a point to show he balances out the power within him,so its not exactly the same Ion as His fist time as Ion and his feats well?