Originally posted by illadelph12You still do not understand do you Ill you know for someone who prides themselves on the ability to comprehend you don't do a good job of it.
Because some people are capable of becoming smarter, while apparently some other's aren't.Ingenuity is part of the tourney.
Just because you didn't think of it doesn't make it illegal.
Here is my problem let me spell it out for you.
Someone is allowed to absorb and integrate abilities from another character with some obvious scenarios where they gain significant upgrades ie Karate Kid.
The fact is that the Mind category is the only category being allowed to do this. Neither Body or Powers are allowed to do this. It doesn't matter what rule you try to bring into this it doesn't change anything on how it is being done which is similar to banned abilities from the other categories.
By the way Ill if there is no cap on on the ability to gain Mind based abilities then why are we not allowed to simply take items from other characters especially if we can prove to use them. By your Logic there is no reason no rule to say no to it. There is no "grabbing tech" rule in place. If getting the specs for Ironman's armor and making it isn't wrong what really separates it from simply grabbing it 😬
Oh by the way there actually is a rule against power or ability stealing for all three categories:
No Power Absorbtion ie Rouge
No Power copying/stealing
No Mind swapping ie no taking the mind of another character. And if you try to say no I have the PM where you do use this rule as this.
So if Leo is allowed to slip by that rule then my guy should as well. Seeing as I'm not actually taking their powers. I'm taking their soul which as a side effect grants me their powers. 😬
The fact is that it is a double standard being allowed to take place should either be allowed to be used by all of the categories or none of them. 😬
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosYou may be right but then again it may be better to get this all figured out now instead of later when people can complain about loses. As of right now it doesn't have any effect on the first round matches while it could on the second round ones.
Drop it and see what happens.If it raises a shit storm (and it will) we'll just have to deal with it then.
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Copying tech through tech is just the same as copying powers through powers... the means don't matter.I'm not necessarily against copying, but I am against double standards.
Yup and in some cases knowing what the character knows gives direct acess to his/her powers.
But this isn't making any headway. We have to either drop it or let Goober make a final ruling.
Originally posted by Newjak
I agree with Leo some of the whiners will ruin some of it but a good director and some helping judges should keep it going.And as long as most of the Tourney people are civil about it.
I think many people are forgetting many tourney drafts before all had some of the same bickering as DL's did.
The difference the two things I stated about people being civil and good director.
Ok here's my "ruling" since it seems to have been missed in all the commotion.
leo remembering the data off the card= 👆 . I'm sorry but memories of past matches carrying over is pretty much standard for tourney's and I'm not going to issue a new rule I never intended on in the first place just to keep someone from learning about the locations of various computer systems. I really don't know what the fuss is all about, the info he has access to won't be good for much anyway because of the following...
Power/tech copying of ANY kind= 👇 . That means that leo can't hack into someones system and reconfigure his form to have outside tech, and newjack can't steal souls to gain powers.
Skill absorption= I don't know. This is the thing(and the ONLY thing) that we're looking for judges votes for. The question is basically whether or not skills SHOULD count as powers and thus fall under the "No power copying" rule. As I've already said several times, I myself lean more towards banning it, but I can see how it could be considered different and less unbalancing than power copying(after all, would anyone object to the Taskmaster being drafted?) which is why I left it to a judges vote rather than outright make the decision for everyone.
Originally posted by darthgooberI'll agree with the first two.
Ok here's my "ruling" since it seems to have been missed in all the commotion.leo remembering the data off the card= 👆 . I'm sorry but memories of past matches carrying over is pretty much standard for tourney's and I'm not going to issue a new rule I never intended on in the first place just to keep someone from learning about the locations of various computer systems. I really don't know what the fuss is all about, the info he has access to won't be good for much anyway because of the following...
Power/tech copying of ANY kind= 👇 . That means that leo can't hack into someones system and reconfigure his form to have outside tech, and newjack can't steal souls to gain powers.
Skill absorption= I don't know. This is the thing(and the ONLY thing) that we're looking for judges votes for. The question is basically whether or not skills SHOULD count as powers and thus fall under the "No power copying" rule. As I've already said several times, I myself lean more towards banning it, but I can see how it could be considered different and less unbalancing than power copying(after all, would anyone object to the Taskmaster being drafted?) which is why I left it to a judges vote rather than outright make the decision for everyone.
It has always been the third that was my problem. It isn't like tapping into a computer. He is literally absorbing abilities from the person. And it is obvious that in some scenarios he gains remarkable abilities from it. Karate Kid fighting ability, it could be used to gain magical abilities like Spiral. Plus he gains the personal knowledge and thinking ability of them. Things that just wouldn't be on a computer.
I think it is direct absorption and it has been banned in every other category it needs to be done here as well. I know my vote doesn't count much but I just want to clarify I am a big
👇
Originally posted by Newjak
I'll agree with the first two.It has always been the third that was my problem. It isn't like tapping into a computer. He is literally absorbing abilities from the person. And it is obvious that in some scenarios he gains remarkable abilities from it. Karate Kid fighting ability, it could be used to gain magical abilities like Spiral. Plus he gains the personal knowledge and thinking ability of them. Things that just wouldn't be on a computer.
I think it is direct absorption and it has been banned in every other category it needs to be done here as well. I know my vote doesn't count much but I just want to clarify I am a big
👇
He already has Spiral, she's the mind character...
Originally posted by illadelph12Except Taskmaster only mimics the moves he sees. He doesn't directly absorb them into his brain from the person. Thus he picks it up without any absorption. He actually learns it and he can only mimic moves he sees therefore he doesn't gain access to every feat they ever did. He also doesn't gain the other knowledge from the person like memories or reaction feats.
I was going to make the same point but Symmetric asked me to drop it.
Taskmaster is a terrible example here. 😬
Originally posted by illadelph12I was using Spiral's mind to showcase that he can gain obvious powers from it thus it is power copying.
He already has Spiral, she's the mind character...
Ok and before I go to bed I just want to clarify one more time where I think the double standard falls into play here.
The fact is for the other two categories:
Body and Power that Absorbing them or having an ability to absorb has ban banned.
Now this actually goes unto two points here:
-One is that you can not have the ability to absorb mind properties directly from the person. Which is quite different from learning them. Absorption is the key word if it has been banned from all the other categories then it has to be banned in this one as it does create a double standard amongst the categories themselves.
-I also I would like to point out that it isn't Leo's Mind that is doing it to began with it. It is an ability from his physical body or power where he can directly absorb abilities from another which as a power is banned even with power meshing. So it his power to absorb in which Rouge was used as a key example and one of her absorbing abilities is to take the memories of the person.
Originally posted by Newjak
Ok and before I go to bed I just want to clarify one more time where I think the double standard falls into play here.The fact is for the other two categories:
Body and Power that Absorbing them or having an ability to absorb has ban banned.Now this actually goes unto two points here:
-One is that you can not have the ability to absorb mind properties directly from the person. Which is quite different from learning them. Absorption is the key word if it has been banned from all the other categories then it has to be banned in this one as it does create a double standard amongst the categories themselves.
-I also I would like to point out that it isn't Leo's Mind that is doing it to began with it. It is an ability from his physical body or power where he can directly absorb abilities from another which as a power is banned even with power meshing. So it his power to absorb in which Rouge was used as a key example and one of her absorbing abilities is to take the memories of the person.
again, it is a meshing issue. i made an amlagam CAPABLE of activating the body, hence GRANTING me access to the dhii's ability to assimilate knowledge. i'm not using any SINGLE character to amp past caps. it's the AMALGAM that is allowing me to do so and there is no amping cap (realistically) on how an amalgam can amp. this is not just stealing a soul which is something your amalgam is NOT rfequired for in this tournament. to perform the feat required good meshing of my amalgam.
anyway --
judges FOR assimilation: 3
judges AGAINST: 1
I think the real issue here isn't that it's a double standard, but the fact that all combatants in this tournament either do not have the means to pull it off and benefit, or for one character in particular, have the means to do so, but not within the rules because he absorbs powers and souls as well.
Becoming smarter is not against the rules.
Stealing your opponents powers is.
Downloading their intelligence and data is not.
It's not the same thing, and it doesn't put the character above caps. I see no problem with anybody doing it so long as they have the means.
And, as Symmetric said, if it were to become an issue that he did absorb an actual power he would not be able to use it anyway (in the same manner in which Emma can't possess people and Warlock can't simply eat all matter). Any attack that's against the rules would be banned and disregarded anyway.