Ranks for MAs

Updated official list and proposed changes update.

Current Hierarchy

Cosmic Tier: (Universal Martial Artists)
Champion of the Universe, Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis, Midnight Sun, Thanos

Uber Tier: (Revered Martial Artists)
Kirigi (DC), O-Sensei, Ogun, Snake Eyes, Stick

Top Tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Constantine Drakon, Elektra, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Taskmaster, Wolverine

Second Tier: (Master Martial Artists)
Agent X, Azrael, Black Bolt, Black Canary, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Cable, Daredevil, David Cain, Deadpool, Deathstroke, Donatello, Echo, Eric Killmonger, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Green Arrow, Karnak, Leonardo, Michaelangelo, Natas, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Prometheus, Puck, Ra's al Ghul, Raphael, Ravager, Red Hood, Red Skull, Shatterstar, Silver Samurai, Steel Serpent, Stone, Talia al Ghul, Twelve Brothers in Silk, Wildcat (Ted Grant), Winter Soldier, Wonder Woman, Vandal Savage, X-23

Third Tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists)
Ares, Arsenal, Bane, Beta Ray Bill, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Blade, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Damian Wayne, Doctor Mid-Nite, Doctor Strange, Domino, Hawkeye, Hercules, Huntress, Katana, Kingpin, Lady Deathstrike, Midnighter, Mister America (Tex Thomson), Mister Terrific, Mockingbird, Moon Knight, Moondragon, Night Thrasher, Nightcrawler, Onyx, Psylocke, Punisher, The Question, Robin (Tim Drake), Sabretooth, Shadowcat, Shrike IV (Boone), Speedy (Mia Dearden), Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Stacy X, Terry McGinnis, Thor, US Agent, Wild Child, Wong

Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artist)
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Black Cat, Blue Devil, Boom Boom, Cannonball, Carol Danvers, Catwoman, Colleen Wing, Colossus, Cyclops, Falcon, Gambit, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Iron-Man, Jubilee, Misty Knight, Mystique, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Superman, Tarantula, Thing, Zauriel

Accomplished Fighter: (Little formal training/Some Skill)
Beast, Grace Choi, Hulk, Invisible Woman, Luke Cage, Spider-Man

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Proposed Changes (Votes For / Votes Against)

[Alfheim]:
Black Panther to replace Elektra: 1 (Alfheim) / 3 (Soljer, capt and I)
[Devil Lance]:
Black Canary to replace Connor Hawke: 1 (DL) / 3 (WW, mp, V)
[jinzin]:
Gorgon to replace Elektra: 2 (Soljer, jinzin) / 2 (capt, mp)
[Martian_Mind]
Boom Boom to Third: 1 (MM) /
Domino to Second: 1 (MM) / 3 (Soljer, me, mp)
[Nataku]
Ares to Second: 2 (V, Nat) / 2 (MM, Soljer)
[me]
Midnight Sun to Second: 3 (Soljer, V and I) / 1 (High_Scholar)
Black Bolt to Third: 2 (Soljer and I) / 0
[mp]
Colleen Wing to Third: 2 (mp and I) / 0

Changes:
Lady Deathstrike moves to Second Tier; 3 (Soljer, capt and I) / 0

Additions: Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Zauriel
-I've added the above 3 based on their H2H weapons proficiency. Too high? Too low?
-Drax and Mar-Vell will be added after further discussion.

Comments:
-Midnight Sun temporarily moved back to Cosmic for further discussion.
-I also think Moondragon is being rated too low, but I personally don't have anything to make a case to move her higher.
-I'm going to need to see at least one purely skill feat before even placing J'onn above Accomplished fighter if even there. 😛

P.S. I also have 40 per page, but try to update the list about every 20 posts.

.....Since no-one has actually opposed the Boom-Boom call,can she go up?

Originally posted by Martian_mind
.....Since no-one has actually opposed the Boom-Boom call,can she go up?

Edit: There are currently 138 characters in the list by my count. When it reaches 150 I think it would be okay to begin considering one additional spot each for Marvel and DC in the Top tier.

I suppose MrImmortal could go in Accomplished. Didn't he have some acrobatic combat feats?

Should we institute a rule for the top tier? No more than X percent of the total characters, or something of the sort?

Also, please add Adam Warlock to the "added with further discussion" list. There's a good chance he's pretty damned high on the totem pole, but I'll need to get someone more knowledgeable about him than me....

Originally posted by Soljer
Should we institute a rule for the top tier? No more than X percent of the total characters, or something of the sort?

Also, please add Adam Warlock to the "added with further discussion" list. There's a good chance he's pretty damned high on the totem pole, but I'll need to get someone more knowledgeable about him than me....

Will do with Warlock in next update, or if there's enough consensus between now and then will just add him into the list itself.

Others to consider Merlyn (DC), Batwoman, V (from V for Vendetta)

I'm considering adding Apocalypse to the bottom group based on his Rise of Apocalypse miniseries. Comments?

Oh and Jamie Maddrox to either fourth or accomplished fighter.

Originally posted by capt it up
so gorgon a man who moves at the speed of sound was letting wolverine hit him? That makes no sense. If gorgon was actaully more skilled then why would he let his slow, less skilled oponet hit him?

and B) wolverine was getting the crap sliced and diced out of him and then pummbled afterwards, he got hit plenty for someone who was supposedly more skilled than gorgon according to you. 😐

Originally posted by capt it up
I don't think he did and wolverine has implied a lot of things over the years like being able to defeat hulk

Originally posted by capt it up
mx x was a telepath........also the whole arch was pritty bogus for some reason wolverine forgot how to battle telepaths......

that's not what happened.. it's just that it took a long time for wolverine to figure out that he was one, once wolverine did he went with his berserker plan.. so snuff that argument.

Originally posted by capt it up
berserker does not equal less skill and never has and you know that. It amps all his abilities to max. It makes him faster, stronger, more agile, better reflexes and he retains his skills. Hell You have seen the scann, do I really need to post it. He does not lose any skill by going berserker he simply uses the mots effective way to defeat his enemy.

Since I'm the one who scanned that scan no you don't need to post it, your just not following through with what I'm talking about.

at the end of the day gorgon proved that he was at the very LEAST in the top tier and then some.. personally I believe he edges most top tiers out and deserves a spot in the uber tier.. though at a lower level.

Ooh... capt vs. jinzin... I'll get the popcorn.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well not everybody thinks that Night Thrasher is third tier either.

and yet in spite of all that he gets handled by spiderwoman.. 😐

he's third tier at best.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Serioulsy what did he point out. MK was fighting the same way as Punsiher but somehow Franks moves where basic but Mk's where not.

the "not excessive" comment was made to point out that frank doesn't have MORE skill than a person like moonknight who is another third tier.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well this is the thing I think its because hes badly written. Should Apoc duck from a table thrown by Namor? Should Deadpool be able to beat Taskmaster in handcuffs. My point is if hes well written he should not get curbstomped by DD.

Originally posted by Alfheim
It does if it comes from training.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well from what I know is this...alot of DS's skill comes from enhancements. BP has alot more skill and speed. The reason that Wolverine could have won is because DS wasnt skilled enough. Furthermore it would help if I could see the fight because from what I could see BP made Wolverine look kinda dumb.
DS could have been fast but not that fast.

wait.. you don't think DS is as fast as BP? 😐
😂

Originally posted by Alfheim
Is Speed Demon an MA if Speed Demon was an MA it could be argued that he could win. The reason why Speed Demon lost is becaue he couldnt take a shot on the chin. If BP got hit on the chin he would carry on fighting.

actually it was an admantium elbow to the thraot.. no pb isn't gettin up from that.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah and Wolverine got one shoted by DD with a pressure point.

Originally posted by Alfheim
That could be argued that its a low showing as I said before Wolverine has been one shoted by DD every MA has low showings.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Oh yeah heres alll the scans complete

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/8647/vswolv1.jpg
http://img70.exs.cx/img70/21/vswolv2.jpg
http://img23.exs.cx/img23/715/vswolv3.jpg

Elecktra can still beat BP?

Then theres this.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6645/bpvsxmen2wa.jpg

Its not just about BP being faster than Wolverine. Basically BP is faster and uses his skill to make Wolverine look stupid.

Despite all this Electra is going to beat BP 🤨

Vote: BP for top tier and night Thrasher for second.

the first set of scans shows PB losing before intervention that proves nothing! the second is again, a lesson in humiliation on wolverine's part but it doesn't prove that BP is either more skilled than logan or his superior in combat. 😬

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Yes. Elektra can beat Black Panther... And Black Panther can beat Elektra... 😬

With regard to skill though she's superior. I'm not voting on any of the Marvel proposed additions to top tier yet, but my vote goes to Elektra before it goes to Black Panther.

P.S. the Black Panther/X-Men crossover was utter tripe. Iceman was taken out by lasers? or something else incredibly below him... iirc.

Originally posted by capt it up
cosigned.

Originally posted by Wally West
This might open the door for tons of characters to be added quite highly, but what about the Street Fighter characters, they do have their own comic, and guys like Ryu, Akuma, Gen, etc. would rank quite high.

I don't think these characters should be included for a couple reasons:
1: their best feats don't come from comics, they come from games and they remain amibuous to a certain degree.
and 2: do we attribute their ability to manipulate chi as a testament to skill or to the rules of the world they live in?

It's too hard to call and for this reason I must ask they be left out.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'll concur with Ares and Shatterstar.
Likewise Nightcrawler but largely due to his ability to incorporate acrobatics into the martial arts he knows.
Hehe Squirrel Girl.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Wong trained Dr Strange in h2h so he's pretty good.

I vote against Black Canary replacing Conner Hawke. Even prior to OYL Shiva went out of her way to challenge him they ended up in a stalemate.

If you're gonna add Prometheus then he has to go higher. Guy beat Batman and Lady Shiva in h2h combat.

I still vote for Elektra to the top spot. In terms of her skill vs Daredevil's I think she outclasses him. His senses give him an edge, plus she's hardly ever going all out against him.

Hawkeye needs to get on this list. Captain America trained him.

Kingpin still needs to move down.

Not sure bout Gorgon. He's so vague that I'm not sure how much of his abilities were from his powers or skills.

see I agree that a lot and I mean A LOT about Gorron's abilities were vague.. but my issue here is that, if ambiguity is the reason for not placing him above an MA why does that not remain a constant strain of reasoning when he got placed below them?

The way i see it is this..
every one of his feats was complimented by obvious skill...

in his short time he performed the feats and stunts that most MA's do to establish their rep.

EVERY FEAT he did, every fight he had, he took on in a nonchalant manner...
Not only did he kill wolverine i combat, but he outright curbed elektra.. who's up fo first tier placement. and yes while that may be attributed to various powers.. none of elektra's skill helped her even evade gorgon's attacks...

and then when shield wolverine and elektra got the drop on gorgon and showed up with prep designed to rob him of his best advantage in tp, they, all of them, still got wrecked..

that compounded with the fact that he dropped a tech enhanced elektra with one hit and then wolverine later makes a statement that he has to "STOP TRYING TO MATCH" gorgon in skills...(which alludes to me that gorgon was at least as skilled as logan if not moreso)... makes me believe that gorgon more than earned his spot in the first tier of marvel ma's if not uber...

hell if his vagueness is why we're discounting him give him at least an honorary status.. but don't put him below people he's downright humiliated on occasion after occasion.

Jinzin vs Capt, OR, Logical Wolverine Fanboy vs Ignorant Wolverine Fanboy!

Coming this April to a forum near you.

woooooow, there's alot missing

Originally posted by Redatom65
woooooow, there's alot missing

So, start recommending people for placement.

We need Grifter in second, and Donna Troy in second or third

We still need to discuss Mar-vell

Originally posted by Nataku8188
There's debating, which many of us have done already in this thread, then there's being a stubborn, ignorant fanboy. Capt we all know is prone to go into this mode when provoked regarding Wolverine, but he still knows when to stop if someone asks him too. Alfheim, seriously, you've admitted yourself that you're making arguments based on things you don't even know about. Just drop it.

Anyways, onto modifications;
Snake Eyes should be Uber tier. No doubt at all. It's either Jinzin or Srank who has all his feats memorized and probably scanned, but I'll work on compiling some info. He is beyond amazing.

yikes... I dunno about uber tier.. but yes if we're including joes then snake eyes storm shadow and firefly all get an instantanious transmission into the first tier for sure.

the only reason I haven't brought them up yet was becauseI was feeling lazy and don't really want to go into the lengths of proving it. 😬

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Jinzin vs Capt, OR, Logical Wolverine Fanboy vs Ignorant Wolverine Fanboy!

Coming this April to a forum near you.

so now I am ignorant and whys that?