Ranks for MAs

gorgon?????

this is ****ing rediculous

Originally posted by jinzin
uh yeah... that's a pretty rich and hypocritial insinuation to make on your part.. especially considering A) all the times you've argue that wolverine lets himself gethit by things because he knows he can take it but that doesn't take away fro HIS skill...

Originally posted by jinzin
and B) wolverine was getting the crap sliced and diced out of him and then pummbled afterwards, he got hit plenty for someone who was supposedly more skilled than gorgon according to you. 😐

Originally posted by jinzin
I see, so now wolverine isn't even intelligent enough to recognize his own skill level?

Originally posted by jinzin
that's not what happened.. it's just that it took a long time for wolverine to figure out that he was one, once wolverine did he went with his berserker plan.. so snuff that argument.

Originally posted by jinzin
because everything happens on account of instinct and he doesn't have to think about it.. when he tries to imply his skill against people like ogun or gorgon for instance.. he got stomped..

Originally posted by jinzin
at the end of the day gorgon proved that he was at the very LEAST in the top tier and then some.. personally I believe he edges most top tiers out and deserves a spot in the uber tier.. though at a lower level.

Why IS Black Bolt listed as second tier? 😕

Seriously, what's he done that makes him as impressive as Daredevil or Nightwing in terms of skill? Even Thor's listed in third tier and he beat BB in H2H.

Originally posted by capt it up
so now I am ignorant and whys that?

Shush now, go play with your toys.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
Shush now, go play with your toys.

I don't own any toys............maybe you were thinking of your self.........

Originally posted by Accel
Why IS Black Bolt listed as second tier? 😕

Seriously, what's he done that makes him as impressive as Daredevil or Nightwing in terms of skill? Even Thor's listed in third tier and he beat BB in H2H.

Thats like the umpteenth vote to move blackbolt down.

Seconded. Get him out of second tier! 😛.

Originally posted by capt it up
so you stated something jsut for the sake of beeing an ass with out any evidence or such?

I don't own any toys............maybe you were thinking of your self.........

Come on, Capt. You can do better than "I know you are, but what am I?"

Originally posted by Soljer
Come on, Capt. You can do better than "I know you are, but what am I?"

I could, but why bother? It not like he worth it. He gets a hard on by simply making fun of people. What would be the point?

Originally posted by capt it up
so you stated something jsut for the sake of beeing an ass with out any evidence or such?

I don't own any toys............maybe you were thinking of your self.........

You're ignorant, we've told you a thousand times why but you just ignore it because, guess what, you're ignorant! So there's no point in explaining.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
You're ignorant, we've told you a thousand times why but you just ignore it because, guess what, you're ignorant! So there's no point in explaining.

Actually inability to learn suggests a neurological problem not ignorance. Ignorance would be if he had never had the information presented to him.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
You're ignorant, we've told you a thousand times why but you just ignore it because, guess what, you're ignorant! So there's no point in explaining.

but see you never have. This is just some stupid cop out. You talked crap and now I am askign you to prove it. Don't give me some haft assed answer.

So you still strive off being an ass whole?

so were is heavy duty going to be put? AS well as Duke?

also did we put falcon in yet?

Originally posted by capt it up
Difference is Wolverine actually lets thing hit him……….When has gorgon ever let a bullet hit him? Never………..

ummm no offense but your logic makes no sense here...
does gorgon not letting bullets hit him make my argument any less valid? no it doesn't.. wolverine isn't a bullet.. the fact is that thy were both landing blows during that fight/encounter, gorgon was landing.... A LOT MORE... him getting hit doesn't mean he is any less skilled since you know.. wolverine was getting hit plenty.

Originally posted by capt it up
So now because wolverines more skilled he can’t get hit?

apparently.. since that's the logic you're attempting to imply on gorgon's character. 😬
you're being a hypocrite.

Originally posted by capt it up
Wolverine more skilled then sabertooth and yet sabertooth his him all the time. It because gorgon and sabertooth are physically his superior.

Originally posted by capt it up
So waity so now wolverine can take the hulk? Or maybe wolverines the best fighter in the world like he stated before.

but the gorgon thing isn't a boast, it's not a threat.. it's not comparible to either of those two proven bad examples..

it was him second guessing his own skill vs. gorgons...
if gorgon curbs wolverine and then elektra and then elektra AND wolverine AND shield AND at the same time without his tp, and then starts beating up wolverine AGAIN.. and wolverine implies he's having issues keeping up with gorgon's skill... then yeah I'm gonna take his word that skill is probably having SOMETHING to do with it.

Originally posted by capt it up
Actually I have no need to snuff out the argument. Wolverine has never needed to go berserker before to beat a telepath. He was able to beat rapture. Phyloke and other telepaths with out the need of berserker rage.

Originally posted by capt it up
Again he still using his skills is berserker rage.

again, you're going off topic.. it's not my point that wolverine stops using skills to fight opponents who are his superior.. it's simply that he stops weighing himself down by TRYING to use skills... when he's trying to keep up with highly skilled people he gets beat on pretty hard, harder than if he just let's go.. which he usually ends up doing anyway.

when wolverine is TRYING to use skill he has to think about it more.. more thinking= less flow.. less flow = wolverine getting the poop stomped out of him by guys like ogun.
I like how you think you're about to educate ME of all people on the subject of wolverine.. 😐
😂

back on subject: this whole skills argument is just a buffer to what infact DID happen, wolverine himself STATES that he needs to stop trying to match Gorgon's skill and just go crazy, which is what he started to attempt to do.. whether it makes sense to you or not is irrelivent it is in fact what happened..

Originally posted by capt it up
I don’t think he did at all. I think he was simply superior physically.

again you need to prove a superiority which a) has no proof beyond durability and HF
and b) is a notion that rides against what wolverine flat out stated.

QUOTE=8757413]Originally posted by jinzin
ummm no offense but your logic makes no sense here...
does gorgon not letting bullets hit him make my argument any less valid? no it doesn't.. wolverine isn't a bullet.. the fact is that thy were both landing blows during that fight/encounter, gorgon was landing.... A LOT MORE... him getting hit doesn't mean he is any less skilled since you know.. wolverine was getting hit plenty. [/QUOTE]
true, but gorgon does not allow him self to get hit ever. That was the only fight were he actually took hits which would imply that he was simply not able to dodge the attacks. Also the fight was dead even till the very end in which gorgon pretty much speed blitz wolverine with attacks.

Originally posted by jinzin
apparently.. since that's the logic you're attempting to imply on gorgon's character. 😬
you're being a hypocrite.

Originally posted by jinzin
funny how they both have comparible skill levels on charts isn't it?

I thought gorgon was listed as a 6……….

Originally posted by jinzin
but you're just building on my point now.. getting blows landing on you doesn't make you less skilled when you're up against a similarly leveled opponent... your trying to say that gorgon wasn't as skilled as wolverine and part of your reasoning was that he was hit a lot in their last fight.. and yet so was wolverine, yet you don't think that doesn't make HIM less skilled.. it's a hypocritical notion.. now you're saying it's because gorgon's physically superior.. I say prove it. 😐

Originally posted by jinzin
See here's the thing, Wolverine HAS taken hulk before. hell by marvel's count he has a winning record....
being the best there is.. he's beaten on damn near everyone to earn that title.

but the gorgon thing isn't a boast, it's not a threat.. it's not comparible to either of those two proven bad examples..

it was him second guessing his own skill vs. gorgons...
if gorgon curbs wolverine and then elektra and then elektra AND wolverine AND shield AND at the same time without his tp, and then starts beating up wolverine AGAIN.. and wolverine implies he's having issues keeping up with gorgon's skill... then yeah I'm gonna take his word that skill is probably having SOMETHING to do with it.

Originally posted by jinzin
That's not what I said.. Yes you need to snuff the argument you made.. you said that the story was crap because wolverine forgot how to fight telepaths, except that's not what happened.. as in.. AT ALL... so your reasoning for it being a bad storline is backed with faulty logic. I never said anything about wolverine being unable to beat telepaths without berserker rage... try to keep up.

Originally posted by jinzin
and no one said he isn't...

again, you're going off topic.. it's not my point that wolverine stops using skills to fight opponents who are his superior.. it's simply that he stops weighing himself down by TRYING to use skills... when he's trying to keep up with highly skilled people he gets beat on pretty hard, harder than if he just let's go.. which he usually ends up doing anyway.

when wolverine is TRYING to use skill he has to think about it more.. more thinking= less flow.. less flow = wolverine getting the poop stomped out of him by guys like ogun.
I like how you think you're about to educate ME of all people on the subject of wolverine.. 😐
😂

back on subject: this whole skills argument is just a buffer to what infact DID happen, wolverine himself STATES that he needs to stop trying to match Gorgon's skill and just go crazy, which is what he started to attempt to do.. whether it makes sense to you or not is irrelivent it is in fact what happened..

Yes, but the thing is he still using all of his skills. He simply letting go and allowing his instincts and blood lust to be used as well. His skills are still being applied he not losing an martial arts abilities while going berserker. He still using his mind, but also his instincts. So to say he loses skill or does not use his mind would be false.

Originally posted by jinzin
And I disagree..

again you need to prove a superiority which a) has no proof beyond durability and HF
and b) is a notion that rides against what wolverine flat out stated.

he was stronger then wolverine as shown. He was faster as stated in his stats and shown. He was a power house. There no way he was more skilled he my be top tier, but ubber hell no. If he was uber that fight with wolverine would have ended much much much much faster. If wolverine was beat in every area there would be no way he could even attempt to fight gorgon.

I vote for gorgon being moved to top tier. jinzin got me thinking and it liky gorgon is skilled enough to be top tier.

Originally posted by capt it up
ummm no offense but your logic makes no sense here...
does gorgon not letting bullets hit him make my argument any less valid? no it doesn't.. wolverine isn't a bullet.. the fact is that thy were both landing blows during that fight/encounter, gorgon was landing.... A LOT MORE... him getting hit doesn't mean he is any less skilled since you know.. wolverine was getting hit plenty.

Okay, yes their last fight was the only one in which gorgon got hit.. but given what and whom he completely no sold in his appearances before.. we can come to one of two conclussions...
the first being that him getting blown up and blasted with lsd rockets and then jumped by wolverine and elektra and then tacked out of a skyscraper actually did slow him down enough for wolverine to land hits...

that he let wolverine hit him so he could pierce wolvie's lungs and work him up close.

or that they are very close to equals and skill

all of those work better than.. "wolverine hit gorgon in that fight so he must be less skilled" which is what you're attempting to sell here.

Originally posted by capt it up
No I am not since wolverine does not have physical advantages over gorgon. Gorgon is pretty much wolverines superior in every way, so if wolverine was not more skilled or even as skilled there is no way he could have stalemated gorgon at all during the last fight.

and he didn't.. he got the crap kicked out of him twice in a row..

again you are.. you're subjecting him to a double standard... double standards are hypocritical. and again his "physical superiorty" needs to be proven to a point that would make the difference here.

Originally posted by capt it up
I thought gorgon was listed as a 6……….

Originally posted by capt it up
Gorgon was able to move at the speed of thought. Did you see how slowly people moved in his point of view in issue 30?

Originally posted by capt it up
Also his speed level is listed as a level 4 in the latest hand book. He also kept easily over powering wolverine in strength as well.

Originally posted by capt it up
I don’t think gorgon was logan superior in skill, because if he was then combind with his vastly superior abilities he would have been able to beat wolverine with out logan even being able to fight back.

he basically did that 2 and 1/2 times... 😐

Originally posted by capt it up
fine how about when he said yokia what ever it spelled was the second best fighter in the world? He also said that in a pretty normal tone as if he was sure. Like I said wolverine says a lot of things he does not mean or that are not true.

Originally posted by capt it up
Oh I am keeping up.

Originally posted by capt it up
You forget that wolverine implied that his only way to beat the telepath was to go berserker,

he never said nor implied that. you're tangenting again.

Originally posted by capt it up
but wolverine has never needed to go berserker before then to beat a telepath, but now all of sudden he needs to?

not all telepaths are the same.. and yes.. against x he did.. that's just how it works..

Originally posted by capt it up
Also mr. x was able to grab logans claws with out even cutting him self………

listen I realize that the fight with x is.. (well no human including people like cap or daredevil SHOULD be able to fight wolverine but they do).. in a word ridiculous, but I don't see how that leads you to believe that the whole story was bogus..

Originally posted by capt it up
Yes, but the thing is he still using all of his skills. He simply letting go and allowing his instincts and blood lust to be used as well. His skills are still being applied he not losing an martial arts abilities while going berserker.

Originally posted by capt it up
He still using his mind, but also his instincts. So to say he loses skill or does not use his mind would be false.

I said that he doesn't try to think about doing what he's doing. which he doesn't.

Originally posted by capt it up
he was stronger then wolverine as shown.

Originally posted by capt it up
He was faster as stated in his stats and shown.

Originally posted by capt it up
He was a power house. There no way he was more skilled

and yet.. "I have to stop TRYING to MATCH his SKILLS".... 😐

Originally posted by capt it up
he my be top tier, but ubber hell no.

Originally posted by capt it up
If he was uber that fight with wolverine would have ended much much much much faster.

Originally posted by capt it up
If wolverine was beat in every area there would be no way he could even attempt to fight gorgon.

and again... then our ranking doesn't make sense... logan pounded ogun twice... he no sold stick.. what the hell are they doing in the uber tier?

Originally posted by capt it up
but see you never have. This is just some stupid cop out. You talked crap and now I am askign you to prove it. Don't give me some haft assed answer.

So you still strive off being an ass whole?

We present evidence. You look at it and completely disregard and/or twist it around to meet your own needs. No matter what thread you're in you do it, constantly.

You're ignorant. You refuse to accept facts that people put out there on a regular basis.

You can call it a cop out or whatever, you're just going to twist what I say around however you want like you always do.

The fact is, I know it's true and so do all the people out there who have ever debated against you.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
We present evidence. You look at it and completely disregard and/or twist it around to meet your own needs. No matter what thread you're in you do it, constantly.

You're ignorant. You refuse to accept facts that people put out there on a regular basis.

You can call it a cop out or whatever, you're just going to twist what I say around however you want like you always do.

The fact is, I know it's true and so do all the people out there who have ever debated against you.

really when have I done that?

really what facts do I refuse to except?

know you are simply being and ass and are trying to weasal your way out of answer my question.

whats true please proof what your gunna say or just don't say it

I point you to the dispute between yourself and Jinzin just moments ago.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
I point you to the dispute between yourself and Jinzin just moments ago.

ya and your point? these nothing ignorent in this dispute it between to people who have clsoe to equal knowledge on the characters in the debate, but view them differently.