Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats not even the point. My point is that events happen in comics that shouldnt happen.On this list MK is third tier, Taskmaster is top tier. Why is he ****ing his pants?
Furthermore MK gave Taskmaster the opportunity to kill him. Taskmaster hasnt been in danegerous situations before? All of a sudden hes too scared to fight? Doesnt make any sense.
Because he's pinned under a plane and shot a man in a place whuch should have killed him. Its not really that hard to follow. Add in MK's rep for being a psycho and Taskmaster being scared is not a stretch.
Plus its not like Taskmaster is the most motivated villian. Throughout his career when things get tough he gets going. He's not a stay an fight till the end kinda guy, he's more of the cut an run type.
Originally posted by marvelprince
Because he's pinned under a plane and shot a man in a place whuch should have killed him. Its not really that hard to follow. Add in MK's rep for being a psycho and Taskmaster being scared is not a stretch.Plus its not like Taskmaster is the most motivated villian. Throughout his career when things get tough he gets going. He's not a stay an fight till the end kinda guy, he's more of the cut an run type.
I dunno man...
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q302/thorionn/tmasta8.jpg
When Taskmaster hit him with arrows he didnt hit him in the vital organs. All he had to do to kill MK was apply some pressure with his sword.
If thats what taskmaster is like hes a ****ing p****.
I like this though
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q302/thorionn/entertm5.jpg
"C'mon Tasky, front me the training. I'll make good after my first job. Im gonna be huge, man. You just gotta teach me that badass Punisher move I saw on entertainment tonight."
Yeah I know it doesnt prove anything I just like it 😆
Originally posted by Alfheim
I dunno man...http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q302/thorionn/tmasta8.jpg
When Taskmaster hit him with arrows he didnt hit him in the vital organs. All he had to do to kill MK was apply some pressure with his sword.
If thats what taskmaster is like hes a ****ing p****.
And MK was telling him to do it. Sword in his face, arrows in his chest and he's not even flinching. Badass.
And yea sometimes Taskmaster can act like that but he's all about living to fight another day. Thats business
Originally posted by Alfheim
I like this though
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q302/thorionn/entertm5.jpg"C'mon Tasky, front me the training. I'll make good after my first job. Im gonna be huge, man. You just gotta teach me that badass Punisher move I saw on entertainment tonight."
Yeah I know it doesnt prove anything I just like it 😆
😂 I remember that too. It was pretty funny. I also like how he mentioned Moon Knight's fighting style.
"Never met you wouldn't rather take than dodge have you?"
Originally posted by marvelprince
And MK was telling him to do it. Sword in his face, arrows in his chest and he's not even flinching. Badass.And yea sometimes Taskmaster can act like that but he's all about living to fight another day. Thats business
In that context it does make sense.
Originally posted by marvelprince
😂 I remember that too. It was pretty funny. I also like how he mentioned Moon Knight's fighting style."Never met you wouldn't rather take than dodge have you?"
😂
Originally posted by Alfheim
Does that really prove anything by itself that can be considered to be a low showing.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Night Thrasher has taken blacklash and boomerang at the same time apparently. Thats like taken on Bullseye and somebody else at the sametime. This is what is said about Boomerang.
Night Thrasher beating up on nobodies does not give him a higher level of skill.. {smilie]no[/smilie]
Originally posted by Alfheim
Noooo bruv you got me wrong completely. I was under the impression that MK was second tier right? See where im coming from if you look at the Mk punisher fight you see that both MK and frank are both on a similar level. Before you said that he was third tier people were saying that Punisher was fighting differently to frank.
What happened was that people suddenly lost the ability to read and just decided that frank was fighting like Mk. Also Black Widow is second tier on this list and if you look at the fight between her and frank, frank was doing better. Also there were scans of Frank evading a suprise attack from Cap and then deflecting Caps shield and stopping it with his feet. Also back in the day Frank would lose to DD but not get curbstomped if you look at some of the fights it could be argued that they are PIS because he gets knocked out far too easy. I dont think Frank is better than DD I just think he should do better.
What you THINK.. what you WISH.. they are irrelivant here. The fact is that DD is enormously superior to frank in h2h and ESPECIALLY in the context of MARTIAL ARTS SKILL.
Originally posted by Alfheim
My point simply was that if you look at some of Franks showings some of his fights are badly written. As Apoc ducking from a table from Namor, the point is that he jobs alot and apparently there are lots of other examples im sure I could get from Trickster Priest.
Some of punisher's fightsmight be badly written but BY-AND-LARGE Frank is just a military man, there's nothing special about him other than his crazy mental state.... and people job to punisher far more often than the other way around.
Originally posted by Alfheim
You totally missed the point with Taskmaster. Taskmaster got beaten by Deadpool in handcuffs not because of his HF get it
really are you trying to argue that HF had nothing to do with the beatdown?
Please don't tell me your that ignorant...
Taskmaster landed the first major blow of the h2h fight and it was a kill shot... the only problem was that DP's HF was so high he was just able to take it and then dish it out in spades.. it had nothing to do with TM losing on account of fighting ability. ❌
Originally posted by Alfheim
...it shouldnt happen because we know Taskmaster is more skilled than that. Also should Taskmaster **** his pants against MK if hes a third tier fighter?
What does that have to do wtih skill? NOTHING.
Originally posted by Alfheim
That wasnt even my point. You got the complete opposite of what I was trying to say.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok, but then I can give you examples of Taskmaster getting beaten by DP in handcuffs and him too scared to fight MK. Taskmaster is top tier and Mk is third tier shouldnt he be able to take down MK.
Neither of those two encounters had anything to do with skill...
hell the moon knight issue states flat out that "it's not about how good you are but what you can take"...
Had nothing to do with skill whatsoever so your examples are moot.
And neither of those have anything whatsoever to do with an admittedly biased writing.. so I fail to see why you'de bring them up. 😕
Originally posted by Alfheim
The point is some people get beaten by people they shouldnt hence my example of Apoc..
Originally posted by AlfheimThat WOULD be the only thing you can say considering the fact that once again your examples didn't match your argument.....
The only thing I can say is that in the first scan it seems that Wolverine was taking it more seriously than BP.
agreed but by the time that wolverine actually got around to owning BP I'd say they were both taking it seriously.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Boy, well if you look at the fight thats not even why he was scared. He was scared because MK wasnt afraid to die.MK even gave him the opportunity to kill him.
Originally posted by Alfheim
You cant have skill without conditioning. You cant have skill without reflexes. If Cap had crappy reflexes he wouldnt be top tier would he?
TAI CHI... 😐
In fact when practicing a new form or strike in martial arts you learn to do so slow at first.. you perform the technique with speed after you've begun to perfect the form of it first..
speed does not equate to skill.
Originally posted by Alfheim
If DD fought Cap and DD couldnt lay a finger on him what would you think?
but I wouldn't instantly come to the conclussion that cap was not skilled
the same way I wouldn't draw that conclussion if spiderman did that to a top ranking MA.
Originally posted by Alfheimsee here's the thing.. we're discussing top ranking MA's with a concensus that skill is what's to be considered and debated...
What dodging punches? Countering moves? Thats should be ignored? If reflexes are gained from superhuman ability and enhancements then its not counted. If its due to MA training it should be.
Both Moon Knight and Night Thrasher are in the third tier anyway.
Also after googling Moondragon vs Mantis and finding this sequence of pages:
http://lordthanos.fortunecity.com/duel1.html
I'd propose that Moondragon move to the same tier as Mantis.
Originally posted by Martian_mind
.....Eh,I don't know......It seemed as though Mantis had the advantage the whole fight,but she made a bad move and paid for it....
Well it seems Moondragon get enough hits in. Even if Mantis was better Moondragon says this about one of her blows "That blow would have staggered the Thunder God himself.".......nuff said.
In pure fighting skills? Daredevil's mostly just boxing and aome asian styles. He can beat some of those in the top tier but personal I think that's more to his senses than to his fighting ability. Feel free to disprove me though. If you make a strong enough case he'll be bumped up.
I don't know where Fury is skillwise to comment.
Kingpin definitely should not move up imo. I have loads of appearances by the big guy and he's predominately power. You always see him training, but its either lifting or simply outpowering all the people he's up against. Not much skill required in that.
Originally posted by marvelprince
In pure fighting skills? Daredevil's mostly just boxing and aome asian styles. He can beat some of those in the top tier but personal I think that's more to his senses than to his fighting ability. Feel free to disprove me though. If you make a strong enough case he'll be bumped up.I don't know where Fury is skillwise to comment.
Kingpin definitely should not move up imo. I have loads of appearances by the big guy and he's predominately power. You always see him training, but its either lifting or simply outpowering all the people he's up against. Not much skill required in that.
In pure fighting skills, Daredevil may just be boxing and some Eastern style ma, but hes highly adept in it. He doesnt just know it. Same can be said for Iron Fist and Chi. I doubt Captain America has mastered every or most Eastern fighting styles. Hes mastered what he has learned. Back to DD. Matt fights Iron Fist and talks to him like Rand is beneath him. I know that it doesnt mean Matt is better, but DD isnt one to boast.
that says alot imo. Wolverine has commented on how Matt and people like him(the normals like Matt, Cap, Fist, Elektra) HAVE to be the best. His radar mainly helps him for sneak attacks as well as his hearing. The senses only aid him in certain areas such as evading, but his skill and execution is without much of the senses.
Much like Cap, Fury is the basic, less flamboyant type of fighter. His more experienced than almost anyone in combat and more or equally as skilled as most. Hes fought and trained some of the best. Eventhough his h2h combat skills havent been shown as much as Cap, hes certainly in the range imo. That much has been shown.
Now with Kingpin. True hes mainly power, but hes also highly skilled/trained. He trains against some highly skills ma's for fun. Hes defeated 8 (3 red and 5 black belts) WITH weapons and they couldnt even land a hit on him. In his next training session, he wanted the team doubled with weapons as well. Hes defeated Cap and Daredevil, as well as Stalemated Batman. Although hes unaturally strong, in his fights, the strength usually kicks in after the skill is shown or when he grabs his opponent.
Whew. Sorry for the long post. That isnt like me. Im not home right now, but id have no problenms with posting some scans if needed.
Originally posted by jrodslam
In pure fighting skills, Daredevil may just be boxing and some Eastern style ma, but hes highly adept in it. He doesnt just know it. Same can be said for Iron Fist and Chi. I doubt Captain America has mastered every or most Eastern fighting styles. Hes mastered what he has learned. Back to DD. Matt fights Iron Fist and talks to him like Rand is beneath him. I know that it doesnt mean Matt is better, but DD isnt one to boast.
I wouldn't put too much stock in that fight as Danny trying to fight by using Matt's own style, not his own.
Originally posted by jrodslam
that says alot imo. Wolverine has commented on how Matt and people like him(the normals like Matt, Cap, Fist, Elektra) HAVE to be the best. His radar mainly helps him for sneak attacks as well as his hearing. The senses only aid him in certain areas such as evading, but his skill and execution is without much of the senses.
It does say a lot about Matt, but like I said before just because you beat a guy in a fight doesn't necessarily make you more skilled. Matt's skill come from the total combination of his abilities. His agility, skill, senses etc all cohesively form his own personal style. Doesn't make him the best fighter though.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Much like Cap, Fury is the basic, less flamboyant type of fighter. His more experienced than almost anyone in combat and more or equally as skilled as most. Hes fought and trained some of the best. Eventhough his h2h combat skills havent been shown as much as Cap, hes certainly in the range imo. That much has been shown.
Eh, I just don't see much feats from Fury period that don't involve prep or some type of weapon. I know that doesn't equate to him not having the skills, just that I'm not the most qualified to say where he goes.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Now with Kingpin. True hes mainly power, but hes also highly skilled/trained. He trains against some highly skills ma's for fun. Hes defeated 8 (3 red and 5 black belts) WITH weapons and they couldnt even land a hit on him. In his next training session, he wanted the team doubled with weapons as well. Hes defeated Cap and Daredevil, as well as Stalemated Batman. Although hes unaturally strong, in his fights, the strength usually kicks in after the skill is shown or when he grabs his opponent.
I was refering to these same highly trained MA's in my post. He does nothing of skill against them. Just uses his amazing speed and strength to completely overwhelm them. I don't think I've ever seen Cap vs Kingpin, but every DD vs KP confrontation I've seen involves Kingpin moving using his strength and bulk to overwhelm Matt. Hulk is big and strong too, MA's can't hurt him and he can beat them but that doesn't mean that he's more skilled, just that he's more powerful. Same thing for the Kingpin, just on a lower level.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Whew. Sorry for the long post. That isnt like me. Im not home right now, but id have no problenms with posting some scans if needed.
Np. If you have any Fury scans I'd like to see them.
Originally posted by marvelprince
I wouldn't put too much stock in that fight as Danny trying to fight by using Matt's own style, not his own.
I wasnt talking about that fight. Although Matt did mention that he was "skilled. Better than most" instead of he may be better than me. I was talking about their fight in contest of champions and in Iron Fist and Powerman #77 i believe.
Originally posted by marvelprince
It does say a lot about Matt, but like I said before just because you beat a guy in a fight doesn't necessarily make you more skilled. Matt's skill come from the total combination of his abilities. His agility, skill, senses etc all cohesively form his own personal style. Doesn't make him the best fighter though.
Thats what im saying. When Matt fights the Caps, Iron Fists, Wolverines, Punishers, the actual skills are whats shown instead of the senses. When he beats or stalemates these guys, it due to skills mainly. His senses are alsways secondary against most formidable opponents. I wasnt stating DD was the beast fighter, but he should be in the top tier. I dont think his skills should be overlooked due to his senses. Especially when they are downplayed in many 1 vs 1 fights.
Originally posted by marvelprince
Eh, I just don't see much feats from Fury period that don't involve prep or some type of weapon. I know that doesn't equate to him not having the skills, just that I'm not the most qualified to say where he goes.
Nick Fury respect thread.😄
Originally posted by marvelprince
I was refering to these same highly trained MA's in my post. He does nothing of skill against them. Just uses his amazing speed and strength to completely overwhelm them. I don't think I've ever seen Cap vs Kingpin, but every DD vs KP confrontation I've seen involves Kingpin moving using his strength and bulk to overwhelm Matt. Hulk is big and strong too, MA's can't hurt him and he can beat them but that doesn't mean that he's more skilled, just that he's more powerful. Same thing for the Kingpin, just on a lower level.
In Cap vs Kingpin, Bats vs Kingpin and other Kingpin fights, his skills are shown. Then the strength is show after the skills come out. Kingpins fighting is kinda similar to Hulks but to much. Hulk is just brawl. Kingpin is more than that. However, once he gets close enough for a grab, thats whats hes gonna do. Hes also an expert sumo wrestler. Kingpin respect thread at the bottom of my sig.
Originally posted by marvelprince
Np. If you have any Fury scans I'd like to see them.
Cant right now. At a friends house, but you can see them in his respect thread.
