They haven't explicitly shown what was wrong with him but at the time he thought he was a villian called Trident. He woke up and took out BL with a chop and then started to go at it with Batman. Most of the fight took place off panel, but both of the characters were pretty ragged. BL then shocks Val from behind and the fight ends.
Personally I thought it to mean Karate Kid had an edge because in explaining the fight to the league BL goes on with how Val is amzing and how he split Bruce's helmet in half and Bruce abruptly cuts him off. Scans forthcoming when I get home unless someone beats me to it.
Originally posted by marvelprinceBL shocked him from behind to stop the fight yes, but check out who was getting their moves blocked and who was getting their face punched in. I will give KK credit that he took his belt off panel, but once again, Batman seemed to let him pull it off, knowing the fight was about to end. He was clearly going blow for blow for KK. KK's offense pretty much took place offpanel and near the end of the fight when Bats knew Lighting would end it..... During the fight we see, Batman had the advantage.
No he didn't. He let BL shock him from behind.
Originally posted by marvelprinceBatman didn't cut him off. GL, Mr Terrific and BL were the one's standing there on the page.
Personally I thought it to mean Karate Kid had an edge because in explaining the fight to the league BL goes on with how Val is amzing and how he split Bruce's helmet in half and Bruce abruptly cuts him off. Scans forthcoming when I get home unless someone beats me to it.
Val had just awoken from a coma, and was so brain-rattled he didn't even know who the hell he was. Despite this, he still removed Batman's belt, slung it over his shoulder, and split Batman's cowl.
I think it's obviously who looked superior in that fight - and it wasn't Batman.
Cheers to him for even keeping up, but I don't think this affects his placement in the least.
Originally posted by Soljer
Val had just awoken from a coma, and was so brain-rattled he didn't even know who the hell he was. Despite this, he still removed Batman's belt, slung it over his shoulder, and split Batman's cowl.I think it's obviously who looked superior in that fight - and it wasn't Batman.
Cheers to him for even keeping up, but I don't think this affects his placement in the least.
Originally posted by Juntai
BL shocked him from behind to stop the fight yes, but check out who was getting their moves blocked and who was getting their face punched in. I will give KK credit that he took his belt off panel, but once again, Batman seemed to let him pull it off, knowing the fight was about to end. He was clearly going blow for blow for KK. KK's offense pretty much took place offpanel and near the end of the fight when Bats knew Lighting would end it..... During the fight we see, Batman had the advantage.
I'm not saying to change his placement, I just said that to bring up discussion really...but his record speaks for itself. Batman has defeated pretty much everyone else in his tier, and the only losses we've really seen from fighting someone else in his tier are when they jump him from behind, or come in multiples, or poison him or something.
In the last issue of Batgirl, Shiva even admitted that Batman trained Cass better than she ever could.
Batman even beat some of the Marvel guys in his tier in crossovers, beating Cap in Marvel vs DC, tying him in JLA/Avengers, beating Taskmaster in JLA/Avengers, and so on.
Originally posted by Juntai
I'm not saying to change his placement, I just said that to bring up discussion really...but his record speaks for itself. Batman has defeated pretty much everyone else in his tier, and the only losses we've really seen from fighting someone else in his tier are when they jump him from behind, or come in multiples, or poison him or something.In the last issue of Batgirl, Shiva even admitted that Batman trained Cass better than she ever could.
Batman even beat some of the Marvel guys in his tier in crossovers, beating Cap in Marvel vs DC, tying him in JLA/Avengers, beating Taskmaster in JLA/Avengers, and so on.
Uhhh....
Batman's only clear WIN over Shiva was one that may or may not have been mind-controlled. He did look superior against Shiva before Robin's minor interference in the other fight, but when a fight only takes a single hit to end, who knows how it'll turn up?
He also doesn't have a clear win over Batgirl, though he looked to be her superior in their confrontations, too...
Besides that....
Do you really think, skill-wise, Batman would take any clear majority on Dragon? Drakon? Captain America? Danny Rand?
I don't see it happening. 😐.
Haven't updated in a bit so... official list and proposed changes update.
Current Hierarchy
Cosmic Tier: (Universal Martial Artists)
Champion of the Universe, Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis, Thanos
Uber Tier: (Revered Martial Artists)
Kirigi (DC), O-Sensei, Ogun, Snake Eyes, Stick
Top Tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Constantine Drakon, Elektra, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Taskmaster, Wolverine
Second Tier: (Master Martial Artists)
Agent X, Azrael, Black Canary, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Cable, Daredevil, David Cain, Deadpool, Deathstroke, Donatello, Echo, Eric Killmonger, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Green Arrow, Grifter, Karnak, Lady Deathstrike, Leonardo, Michaelangelo, Midnight Sun, Natas, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Prometheus, Puck, Ra's al Ghul, Raphael, Ravager, Red Hood, Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Steel Serpent, Stone, Talia al Ghul, Twelve Brothers in Silk, Wildcat (Ted Grant), Winter Soldier, Wonder Woman, Vandal Savage, X-23
Third Tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists)
Ares, Arsenal, Bane, Beta Ray Bill, Black Bolt, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Blade, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Colleen Wing, Damian Wayne, Doctor Mid-Nite, Doctor Strange, Domino, Donna Troy, Hawkeye, Hercules, Huntress, Katana, Kingpin, Lady Vic, Midnighter, Mister America (Tex Thomson), Mister Terrific, Mockingbird, Moon Knight, Moondragon, Night Thrasher, Nightcrawler, Onyx, Psylocke, Punisher, The Question, Revanche, Robin (Tim Drake), Sabretooth, Shadowcat, Shatterstar, Shrike IV (Boone), Speedy (Mia Dearden), Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Stacy X, Terry McGinnis, Thor, US Agent, V, Wild Child, Wong
Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artist)
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Batwoman, Black Cat, Blue Devil, Boom Boom, Cannonball, Carol Danvers, Catwoman, Colossus, Cyclops, Falcon, Gambit, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Iron-Man, Jamie Madrox, Jubilee, Misty Knight, Mystique, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Superman, Tarantula, Thing, Zauriel
Accomplished Fighter: (Little formal training/Some Skill)
Apocalypse, Beast, Grace Choi, Hulk, Invisible Woman, Luke Cage, Monet St. Croix, Spider-Man, Strong Guy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proposed Changes (Votes For / Votes Against)
[Marvel Top Tier]
Gorgon (3): jinzin, capt, Soljer?
Moondragon (2): Martian_Mind, SpunkySmurph
Cable (1): Martian_Mind
Black Panther (1): Alfheim
[DC Top Tier]
Black Canary (1): DL
[Martian_Mind]
Boom Boom to Third: 1 (MM) /
[Nataku]
Ares to Second: 2 (V, Nat) / 2 (MM, Soljer)
Changes:
Shatterstar to Third: 2 (me, jinzin?) / 0
Additions: Lady Vic
-Hasn't really been any discussion of Drax, Adam Warlock and Mar-Vell?
-There are two top tier spots open for Indie/Other that are left idle...
Comments:
-Would anyone support moving Mantis down a tier? Or is she good where she is.
-I don't think I'd support Batman moving any higher than he is.
Originally posted by Juntai
BL shocked him from behind to stop the fight yes, but check out who was getting their moves blocked and who was getting their face punched in. I will give KK credit that he took his belt off panel, but once again, Batman seemed to let him pull it off, knowing the fight was about to end. He was clearly going blow for blow for KK. KK's offense pretty much took place offpanel and near the end of the fight when Bats knew Lighting would end it..... During the fight we see, Batman had the advantage.
Honestly I don't see how you can see that as a win for Bruce. He kept up, but both of them were pretty banged. Bruce couldn't have been blocking all of Val's blows cause just looking at him we see that more than just his cowl was split.
Originally posted by Juntai
I'm not saying to change his placement, I just said that to bring up discussion really...but his record speaks for itself. Batman has defeated pretty much everyone else in his tier, and the only losses we've really seen from fighting someone else in his tier are when they jump him from behind, or come in multiples, or poison him or something.In the last issue of Batgirl, Shiva even admitted that Batman trained Cass better than she ever could.
Batman even beat some of the Marvel guys in his tier in crossovers, beating Cap in Marvel vs DC, tying him in JLA/Avengers, beating Taskmaster in JLA/Avengers, and so on.
Batman training Cass shouldn't be a testament to his skills, its just a a testament that he's better teacher. And considering how many times he's done it he should be.
Didn't a crossover have Bruce and Cap going at it for a bit before Batman admits that Cap could beat him?
Batman imo on the high end of the top tier, but still top tier. His showing against Val does nothing that leads me to think that he warrants a jump, especially since much of said fight happened off panel and because Val imo seemed to have the edge.
Originally posted by Soljer
Val had just awoken from a coma, and was so brain-rattled he didn't even know who the hell he was. Despite this, he still removed Batman's belt, slung it over his shoulder, and split Batman's cowl.I think it's obviously who looked superior in that fight - and it wasn't Batman.
Cheers to him for even keeping up, but I don't think this affects his placement in the least.
I agree.
Originally posted by jrodslam
I still think DD should move up. Either that, or some people in the top tier should get bunmped down.I think Kingpin, Fury and Madrox need to be moved up.
Dr.Strange needs to be bumped down as well imo.
Have you seen Dr Strange in action? He has quite a few MA feats from all of his series.
Still don't see why Kingpin needs to move. Being strong and fast does not make you a skilled fighter or else Surfer would be up there.
Still don't see a case for Daredevil moving up now. If more spots open up then we can take him into consideration, but I don't think he's above anyone who's already top tier.
Originally posted by marvelprince
Have you seen Dr Strange in action? He has quite a few MA feats from all of his series.Still don't see why Kingpin needs to move. Being strong and fast does not make you a skilled fighter or else Surfer would be up there.
Still don't see a case for Daredevil moving up now. If more spots open up then we can take him into consideration, but I don't think he's above anyone who's already top tier.
Actually, i havent seen Strange in action to put him in the same MA range as some of the people in the third tier. A few feats puts him in a tier that people have been doing consistantly for years? I dont see it.
As for Kingpin, you seem stuck on strength and speed. I was talking about the skill that hes actually shown. His strength and speed plays a part in his fighting, but the skills are shown to. Usually foremost when fighting skilled ma's or fighters.
If you dont see a case for DD moving up, then what can i say? But ive never stated that hes above anyone whos top tier. Wolverine a better martial artists than Daredevil? As far as ive seen that has yet to be shown. If we're just talking about actual skills DD should easily be up there.
At times it may seem that the rankings or listing are a bit biased. I could have sworn this is a Martial Arts ranking list, but Hercules, Thor/BRB, Black Bolt, Strange and Nightcrawler for examples are in the same martial arts tier as Psylocke, Huntress, Domino and Kingpin? I just dont see it.😬