Current Hierarchy [179]
Cosmic Tier: (Transcendent Martial Artists) [3]
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis
Uber Tier: (Unearthly Martial Artists) [8]
Kirigi (DC), Mandarin, Moondragon, O-Sensei, Ogun, Stick, Temugin, Thanos
Top Tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉 [18]
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Black Canary, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, Taskmaster, Wolverine
Second Tier: (Master Martial Artists) [55]
Adam Warlock, Agent X, Azrael, Backlash, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Cable, Captain Mar-Vell, Champion of the Universe, Cheshire, Crossbones, Daken, David Cain, Deadpool, Deathstroke, Donatello, Echo, Eric Killmonger, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Green Arrow, Grifter, Hawkman, Jason Blood, Judomaster (Hadley Jagger), Karnak, Lady Deathstrike, Leonardo, Magnus, Merlyn (DC), Michaelangelo, Midnight Sun, Mr Sensitive, Natas, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Orion, Prometheus, Puck, Ra's al Ghul, Raphael, Ravager, Red Hood, Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Steel Serpent, Stone, Talia al Ghul, Twelve Brothers in Silk, White Tiger (Angela del Toro), Wildcat (Ted Grant), Winter Soldier, Wonder Woman, Vandal Savage, X-23, Zealot
Third Tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists) [59]
Ares, Arsenal, Bane, Beta Ray Bill, Black Bolt, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Blade, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Colleen Wing, Damian Wayne, Doctor Mid-Nite, Doctor Strange, Domino, Donna Troy, Drax, Duke(GI Joe), Grendel (Hunter Rose), Hawkeye, Heavy Duty(GI Joe), Hercules, Huntress, Katana, KGBeast, Kingpin, Lady Vic, Loki, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, Midnighter, Mister America (Tex Thomson), Mister Terrific, Mockingbird, Moon Knight, Mystique, Namor, Night Thrasher, Nightcrawler, Omega Red, Onyx, Psylocke, Punisher, The Question, Revanche, Robin (Tim Drake), Sabretooth, Shadowcat, Shatterstar, Shrike IV (Boone), Speedy (Mia Dearden), Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Stacy X, Terry McGinnis, Thena, Thor, US Agent, V, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wild Child, Wong
Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artists) [28]
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Batwoman, Beast, Black Cat, Blink, Blue Devil, Boom Boom, Cannonball, Carol Danvers, Catwoman, Colossus, Cyclops, Falcon, Gambit, Hawkgirl, Jamie Madrox, Jubilee, Luke Cage, Mister Fantastic, Misty Knight, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Superman, Tarantula, Thing, Zauriel
Accomplished Fighter: (Little formal training/Some Skill) [8]
Apocalypse, Grace Choi, Hulk, Invisible Woman, Iron Man, Monet St. Croix, Spider-Man, Strong Guy
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Proposed Changes (Votes For / Votes Against)
Black Cat to third: 1 [Accel] /
Cable to third: 4 [V, jrod, llag, Trickster] / 5 [Smurph, MM, Soljer, Capt, Accel]
Champion to cosmic: 1 [Alfheim] / 2 [Soljer, X]
Domino to Second: 2 [Smurph, jrodslam] / 1 [srank]
Duke to second: 1 [capt] / 0
Heavy Duty to second: 1 [capt] / 0
Hercules to second: 3 [V, llag, Trickster] / 4 [FM, Smurph, Capt, Accel]
Jubilee to third 2 [Smurph, Cresh] / 1 [llag]
Kingpin to second: 5 [V, jrod, srank, capt, Accel] / 3 [llag, Macoy, Smurph]
Mantis down to uber: 4 [Soljer, Srank, llag, Accel] / 3 [bran, Smurph, dg]
Mar-Vell to uber: 3 [Smurph, bran, llag] / 1 [srank]
Stick to second: 1 [capt] / 1 [Soljer]
Strong Guy to fourth: 1 [jrod] / 0
Warlock to uber: 4 [V, Smurph, bran, ll] / 2 [srank, Accel]
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Changes made:
Mystique to Third: 6 [Soljer, V, Accel, Smurph, Llag, xmarks] / 1 [Srank]
Luke Cage to fourth: 5 [FM, Soljer, Accel, Smurph, jrod] / 0
Changes defeated:
Ares to second tier: 2 [TP, llagrok] / 5 [FM, capt, Accel, jrod, Smurph]
Deathstroke to third: 2 [capt, srank] / 6 [Dd1, Soljer, V, Smurph, Accel, llagrok]
Notes:
-We have two 'non marvel/dc top tier' spots (currently occupied by Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow).
NB The top tier are ~10% of the total hierarchy top tier and under. The bulk of the list are Marvel and DC so the bulk of the top tier spots go to Marvel and DC.
Feel free to make nominations, or vote for Zealot or any other character that is neither marvel nor DC to supplant these two spots.
-GI Joe - leave 'em or remove 'em?
-I'll reiterate what Soljer posted: If you feel a character should be moved up or down, please do me the favor of actually stating such, so that I do not have to guess intentions. For example, Capt mentioning "Jubilee has been trained by a top tier fighter" may imply he supports the move, but it's hard to tell.
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I agree with Mantis down a notch. Gamora not sure on her record so no comment.
Mantis has some low showings like Vision saving her twice, one from a fall and two from a thuggish villain Slasher IIRC.
When Mantis fought Drax and another time Champion she was completely at there mercy. Not Karate Kid level IMO.
Deathstroke is good at second. The guy trains a lot in hand to hand like Captain America. Except while Cap is better IMO in hand to hand.
Slade is better is skillful usage in a variety weapons, swords, knives, guns and far out there tech etc etc. But he's no slouch in fighting so second seems about right. IMO
Third seems to low for someone considered one of the best assassins.
Edit button...
Originally posted by AccelFor the former I'm assuming due to training with Captain America - but then does that mean we should just start chucking everyone with some training from him in there?
I think the Scarlet Witch and possibly the Joker could both be be placed in Accomplished Fighter.
Originally posted by AccelI'll put him in 3rd in the next update for the time being, and suggestions on whether he should go up/down can be addressed later.
I'd also say that Lobo could be placed in 3rd tier, possibly even 2nd tier.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
For the former I'm assuming due to training with Captain America - but then does that mean we should just start chucking everyone with some training from him in there?
Wonder Man would fit in there too, since he's actually shown some skill rather than just claim he's been trained by Cap without ever applying it.
Originally posted by Daredevil1When Mantis fought Drax and another time Champion she was completely at there mercy. Not Karate Kid level IMO.
Getting beaten by the Champion is not a low-showing hes an Elder who has dedictaed his life to H2H combat (billions of years), so that was expected. He then proceeded to fight SS and even though he lost it was a pretty good fight. Champion was punching him about everywhere and dodged one of his blasts.
Hes also beaten Namor in H2H. I dont know where he goes but Namor has shown knowledge of pressure points and various martial arts and is not just a class 100 brick. Thor is not an MA expert but he has shown even while depowered that hes pretty good at H2H. Champion was dodging his blows and commenting on how sloppy Thor was.
We also have to bear in mind that powers gained through training is part of MA skill. Elders most likely don,t start off with vast superhuman powers but they gain it over billions of years of training. So Champions immortality, strength, durability is party of his skill.