Anyway...
Current Hierarchy [183]
Cosmic Tier: (Transcendent Martial Artists) [3]
Gamora, Karate Kid, Mantis
Uber Tier: (Unearthly Martial Artists) [8]
Kirigi (DC), Mandarin, Moondragon, O-Sensei, Ogun, Stick, Temugin, Thanos
Top Tier: ("Greatest Martial Artists"😉 [18]
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain), Batman, Black Canary, Bronze Tiger, Captain America, Connor Hawke, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Shang Chi, Shen Kuei (The Cat), Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, Taskmaster, Wolverine
Second Tier: (Master Martial Artists) [55]
Adam Warlock, Agent X, Azrael, Backlash, Black Panther, Black Widow, Bullseye, Cable, Captain Mar-Vell, Champion of the Universe, Cheshire, Crossbones, Daken, David Cain, Deadpool, Deathstroke, Donatello, Echo, Eric Killmonger, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Green Arrow, Grifter, Hawkman, Jason Blood, Judomaster (Hadley Jagger), Karnak, Lady Deathstrike, Leonardo, Magnus, Merlyn (DC), Michaelangelo, Midnight Sun, Mr Sensitive, Natas, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Orion, Prometheus, Puck, Ra's al Ghul, Raphael, Ravager, Red Hood, Red Skull, Silver Samurai, Steel Serpent, Stone, Talia al Ghul, Twelve Brothers in Silk, White Tiger (Angela del Toro), Wildcat (Ted Grant), Winter Soldier, Wonder Woman, Vandal Savage, X-23, Zealot
Third Tier: (Highly Skilled Martial Artists) [60]
Ares, Arsenal, Bane, Beta Ray Bill, Black Bolt, Black Knight (Dane Whitman), Blade, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Colleen Wing, Damian Wayne, Doctor Mid-Nite, Doctor Strange, Domino, Donna Troy, Drax, Duke(GI Joe), Grendel (Hunter Rose), Hawkeye, Heavy Duty(GI Joe), Hercules, Huntress, Katana, KGBeast, Kingpin, Lady Vic, Lobo, Loki, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, Midnighter, Mister America (Tex Thomson), Mister Terrific, Mockingbird, Moon Knight, Mystique, Namor, Night Thrasher, Nightcrawler, Omega Red, Onyx, Psylocke, Punisher, The Question, Revanche, Robin (Tim Drake), Sabretooth, Shadowcat, Shatterstar, Shrike IV (Boone), Speedy (Mia Dearden), Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Stacy X, Terry McGinnis, Thena, Thor, US Agent, V, Viper (Madame Hydra), Wild Child, Wong
Fourth Tier: (Trained Martial Artists) [28]
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Batwoman, Beast, Black Cat, Blink, Blue Devil, Boom Boom, Cannonball, Carol Danvers, Catwoman, Colossus, Cyclops, Falcon, Gambit, Hawkgirl, Jamie Madrox, Jubilee, Luke Cage, Mister Fantastic, Misty Knight, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Superman, Tarantula, Thing, Zauriel
Accomplished Fighter: (Little formal training/Some Skill) [11]
Apocalypse, Grace Choi, Hulk, Invisible Woman, Iron Man, Joker, Monet St. Croix, Scarlet Witch, Spider-Man, Strong Guy, Wonder Man
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Proposed Changes (Votes For / Votes Against)
Black Cat to third: 1 [Accel] /
Cable to third: 4 [V, jrod, llag, Trickster] / 5 [Smurph, MM, Soljer, Capt, Accel]
Champion to cosmic: 2 [Alfheim, psychogundam] / 4 [Soljer, X, FM, bran]
Domino to Second: 2 [Smurph, jrodslam] / 1 [srank]
Duke to second: 1 [capt] / 0
Heavy Duty to second: 1 [capt] / 0
Hercules to second: 3 [V, llag, Trickster] / 4 [FM, Smurph, Capt, Accel]
Jubilee to third 2 [Smurph, Cresh] / 1 [llag]
Kingpin to second: 5 [V, jrod, srank, capt, Accel] / 3 [llag, Macoy, Smurph]
Mantis down to uber: 5 [DD1, Soljer, Srank, llag, Accel] / 3 [bran, Smurph, dg]
Mar-Vell to uber: 3 [Smurph, bran, llag] / 1 [srank]
Stick to second: 1 [capt] / 3 [Soljer, DD1, llagrok]
Strong Guy to fourth: 1 [jrod] / 0
Warlock to uber: 4 [V, Smurph, bran, ll] / 2 [srank, Accel]
-----------------------------
Additions:
Scarlet Witch, Lobo, Joker, Wonder Man
-----------------------------
Notes:
-Could people please vote on the existing proposed changes instead of making suggestions for others, as I don't think any more should be added until that list is cut down.
-We have two 'non marvel/dc top tier' spots (currently occupied by Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow).
NB The top tier are ~10% of the total hierarchy top tier and under. The bulk of the list are Marvel and DC so the bulk of the top tier spots go to Marvel and DC.
Feel free to make nominations, or vote for Zealot or any other character that is neither marvel nor DC to supplant these two spots.
-GI Joe - leave 'em or remove 'em?
-I'll reiterate what Soljer posted: If you feel a character should be moved up or down, please do me the favor of actually stating such, so that I do not have to guess intentions. For example, Capt mentioning "Jubilee has been trained by a top tier fighter" may imply he supports the move, but it's hard to tell.
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Im bored so.... 😄
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The Collector didn't use the Power Primordial to augment physical strength. The Power Primordial doesn't give any specific powers but among other things it can be channeled into physicality. You've posted nothing, to convince me at least, that in absence of his external cosmic power source he'd have any of the superhuman abilities he has.
The samething could apply to Temugin.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Champion's strength comes from that he has access to the Power Primordial. Champion's endurance comes from that he can tap into near infinite cosmic energy. Champion's durability comes from that he's an immortal whose body is infused with cosmic energy. It as much as spells this out clearly and definitively in the quotes I posted above.If the Silver Surfer channels the Power Cosmic into augmenting his physicality, I'm not going "Ooh, look he's strong; must be skilled."
The samething could be applied to chi. In the marvel universe chi is a force that can give people superhuman powers. If somebody can channel his chi to give him superhuman strength (and they can) thats him using his training.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's relevant whether or not it impresses me or anyone else, because it's my and others' votes he's after - and my vote still remains as is, so it's still three votes nay, one vote aye. Edit: Four votes nay, reminder to self, I missed Fake McCoy's vote in the last update.
That means you've missed the whole point of martial arts. The wwhole point is that you train in order to beat your opponent. Class 100 is not flashy so as far as your concerned it doesnt impress you, the point is that it doesnt have to be flashy it has to be effective.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Also NB it doesn't state anywhere in that passage (you've posted twice now for some reason,) that they attained ability to manipulate the cosmic energy of the Power Primordial by dedication to a hobby; unless one somehow manages to interpret it really really loosely. All it states is that should they lose their will to live, they would lose their immortality and die.
What gives them the will to live? The dedication to their hobby. You may argue about how they got it, but we know for a fact that their pastimes are directly linked to their PP.
In fact nowhere is it stated in any of their bios or in any of their origins in the comics that they actvely sought it out. Why would they leave it out? All the origins consist of them starting at a low level then getting more powerful by continually training, which therefore implies thats how they got immortal.
You're comparing external cosmic power sources that allow the user to transmute matter, stop time, teleport and travel at light speed to a vaguely defined concept of internal spiritual energy.
Nanites and robotics can probably give people powers in the Marvel universe too, someone learning how to better use them isn't someone developing martial arts. If someone channels magic into making themselves incredibly strong or fast, it's not martial arts to me. The Eternals spend millennia learning how to channel their cosmic power to varying effects be it superspeed or matter transmutation, that doesn't make either ability martial arts skill.
You've still posted nothing but conjecture and certainly not enough to convince me that if one were to snap their fingers and magically remove all access to the external cosmic Power Primordial, Champion wouldn't lose all his superhuman abilities. Regardless of whether it was flashy or effective, in this thread it doesn't impress me because this thread is about MA skill.
Can Doop be added to second tier, or at least third?
He's matched Wolverine and Thor before, and apparently Cap. 🙂
I'll check on the Cap feat though.
Also:
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
[b]Classic Doop Bio and Powergrid
[/B]
Originally posted by StylishSmurph
[b]X-Statix #11 -El Guapo goes to attack Doop out of anger when his pictures make the cover of the papers. Doop prepares to break out some martial arts moves.http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/SpunkySmurph/Marvel/Scans/Doop/X-Statix_11_p21.jpg [/B]
Knocking some Pink Pyschos around-
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/SpunkySmurph/Marvel/Scans/WolverineDoop1-p21HG.jpg
(Brief) fights with Wolverine-
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/SpunkySmurph/Marvel/Scans/WolverineDoop2-P10HG.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/SpunkySmurph/Marvel/Scans/WolverineDoop2-P18HG-1.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g126/SpunkySmurph/Marvel/Scans/WolverineDoop2-P19HG-1.jpg
Originally posted by BattlehammerWolvie had to lean on the counter to stand, and Doop was far from beaten... 😬
..........that wolverine fight was kinda dumb. I mean there first fight logan beat him in a single punch.
I can't find the Cap feat yet. I will, if it exists, but could just be a rumor.
When he only had a half-dead brain he still matched Thor, too.
Ranked a level 7 in Marvel's handbook for fighting skills.
I'll keep looking through my stuff. 🙂
Originally posted by StylishSmurph
Wolvie had to lean on the counter to stand, and Doop was far from beaten... 😬
Originally posted by BattlehammerLogan looks in worse shape than Doop in the second fight, Logan can barely stand and has his arm draped across Doop's shoulder for support.
really becuase he look beaten to me. I mean he on the ground with in eye completely hanging out. Then theres the fact the Logan in the next pannel is standing holding him by his arm in the air.
