Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Whats so PIS about the BB thing? He just become strong enough to withstand the scream.We know his anger changes all the time.
The main problem is that BB can transmute matter without opening his mouth. In SilentWar it was mentioned that he could smash together every atom in a person's body. Not to mention he can and usually does fly.
Originally posted by SnazzySmurph
His base levels of rate of strength increase seems to be much higher now.Granted... but it seems his physiology, healing factor, and strength potential make up for some of that.
Despite some of the PIS in World War Hulk (BB, Strange, etc.), I think Hulk's feats put him at bottom-of-the-ladder Mid Herald.
Meh - our opinions differ, then, and we're both totally welcome to them. But if that's the argument - 'he's stronger, and he heals'....
😬.
How does that compare to flight, C+-speeds/reflexes, matter manipulation, energy projection, et cetera, that damned near every person above him has access to?
Further, what is it about his current showings that is so impressive, if you're so ready to label Black Bolt and Strange PIS?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The main problem is that BB can transmute matter without opening his mouth. In SilentWar it was mentioned that he could smash together every atom in a person's body. Not to mention he can and usually does fly.
With his scream?
Sentry took it and so has Hulk in the past.
If your talking about his antenna thing then don't consider it PIS. He hardly ever uses it, sure he could beat Hulk with it, but without whats so bad about beating him?
Originally posted by Soljer
Meh - our opinions differ, then, and we're both totally welcome to them. But if that's the argument - 'he's stronger, and he heals'....😬.
How does that compare to flight, C+-speeds/reflexes, matter manipulation, energy projection, et cetera, that damned near every person above him has access to?
Originally posted by Hyperion 07Because on nearly all other fights against Hulk, Black Bolt has demonstrated the intellect to use his sheer versatility, and is usually reluctant to scream at all. Much less on the moon, where he could annihilate his entire race just by speaking...
Whats so PIS about the BB thing? He just become strong enough to withstand the scream.We know his anger changes all the time.
A single word has caused unbelievable destruction, and a single whispered word into the ground caused the other side of the planet (not Earth or the moon) to erupt with a multitude of natural disasters. Volcano eruptions and the like.
So not only was it extremely out of character for Black Bolt to act in the manner that he did, but Hulk has rarely, if ever, come close to showing the level of durability he would have needed to survive a full-fledged scream. And the fact that the scream did nothing to anything else tells me that perhaps it was just written with a shitty pencil.
Originally posted by Validus
There are pure bricks in the Trans level.
Some of who's placement I disagree with. Shaggy man, for instance.
However, if a brick deserves Transcendent, he'd have to be so far beyond anyone else in the universe as a 'brick.'
The Hulk has the potential - but if we are going off of his 'potential,' then, well, he doesn't belong on this list at all - he's definitely skyfather+.
The fact of the matter is, damn near everyone above the Hulk has Hulk(plus or minus)-strength, Hulk(plus or minus)-durability, and ten thousand other options to pick from.
Originally posted by SnazzySmurphMeh.
Because on nearly all other fights against Hulk, Black Bolt has demonstrated the intellect to use his sheer versatility, and is usually reluctant to scream at all. Much less on the moon, where he could annihilate his entire race just by speaking...A single word has caused unbelievable destruction, and a single whispered word into the ground caused the other side of the planet (not Earth or the moon) to erupt with a multitude of natural disasters. Volcano eruptions and the like.
So not only was it extremely out of character for Black Bolt to act in the manner that he did, but Hulk has rarely, if ever, come close to showing the level of durability he would have needed to survive a full-fledged scream. And the fact that the scream did nothing to anything else tells me that perhaps it was just written with a shitty pencil.
Good answer. 👆
Originally posted by SoljerThe main reason I label Black Bolt PIS is because he shouldn't have survived the scream, but nor should Black Bolt have resorted to it... if Black Bolt attempted to matter manip him, Hulk resisted and beat BB to death before BB could react, I'd accept it as Hulk being stronger.
Meh - our opinions differ, then, and we're both totally welcome to them. But if that's the argument - 'he's stronger, and he heals'....😬.
How does that compare to flight, C+-speeds/reflexes, matter manipulation, energy projection, et cetera, that damned near every person above him has access to?
Further, what is it about his current showings that is so impressive, if you're so ready to label Black Bolt and Strange PIS?
This (in my opinion) was just dumb.
As for Strange, I thought the manner in which Zom/Strange was defeated was not unbelievable, but somewhat plot induced.
Including CIS, Hulk could give quite a few Mid Heralders fights.
There are bricks at higher levels. Versatility is all nice and good, but Hulk's power output, healing capacity and physiology that makes him very resistant to half the things they can toss at him puts him on par, or at least in the same tier.
Originally posted by Soljer
Some of who's placement I disagree with. Shaggy man, for instance.
Originally posted by Soljer
However, if a brick deserves Transcendent, he'd have to be so far beyond anyone else in the universe as a 'brick.'The Hulk has the potential - but if we are going off of his 'potential,' then, well, he doesn't belong on this list at all - he's definitely skyfather+.
The fact of the matter is, damn near everyone above the Hulk has Hulk(plus or minus)-strength, Hulk(plus or minus)-durability, and ten thousand other options to pick from.
If we count status, Hulk has plenty of it. He's one of the most feared beings in the normal Marvel universe obviously not counting cosmic beings and what not. He has plenty of team wreckings to his name.
In a KMC forum fight, yeah, he'd lose to a lot of people but written in a comic? I think he's done enough to be Mid Herald. Certainly as much as Solomon Grundy who's in the Trans level.
Originally posted by Soljer
In the same tier as Beta Ray, the Flashes, a few Green Lanterns, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, Zod, Quasar, Wonder Woman, Doomsday, the Fallen One, Firestorm....I know it's not about direct comparisons - but if the Hulk was mid-herald, everyone I just named has a decent shot at top.
Originally posted by SoljerI couldn't agree more.
The fact of the matter is, damn near everyone above the Hulk has Hulk(plus or minus)-strength, Hulk(plus or minus)-durability, and ten thousand other options to pick from.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The main problem is that BB can transmute matter without opening his mouth. In SilentWar it was mentioned that he could smash together every atom in a person's body. Not to mention he can and usually does fly.
Hulk has great resistance to Matter Manip.,I have posted those scans a ton of times but it was wasted cause I was talking to...you know who.
Originally posted by Soljer
Some of who's placement I disagree with. Shaggy man, for instance.However, if a brick deserves Transcendent, he'd have to be so far beyond anyone else in the universe as a 'brick.'
The Hulk has the potential - but if we are going off of his 'potential,' then, well, he doesn't belong on this list at all - he's definitely skyfather+.
The fact of the matter is, damn near everyone above the Hulk has Hulk(plus or minus)-strength, Hulk(plus or minus)-durability, and ten thousand other options to pick from.
I can see where you are coming from,but based on all of his showings I dont think Mid-Herald is a stretch at all.
In some of his showings he is downright nasty,who else has taken BB's voice with a Brick-like powerset,what about taking being phased so well. Superman looked like he was deathly ill the times he has been phased into an inanimate object.
Most of Hulks strength feats probably couldnt be duplicated by most of the High Herald level characters.
He has got most HH in HF and about equal in Durability (traditionally).
Originally posted by strengthkills
I can see where you are coming from,but based on all of his showings I dont think Mid-Herald is a stretch at all.In some of his showings he is downright nasty,who else has taken BB's voice with a Brick-like powerset,what about taking being phased so well. Superman looked like he was deathly ill the times he has been phased into an inanimate object.
Most of Hulks strength feats probably couldnt be duplicated by most of the High Herald level characters.
He has got most HH in HF and about equal in Durability (traditionally).
I don't know.
Hulk was screaming and bleeding like a maniac when his hands were phased with the ground. Thor was phased from the chest and down, yet he got out without so much as a scratch.
Originally posted by Hyperion 07
With his scream?Sentry took it and so has Hulk in the past.
If your talking about his antenna thing then don't consider it PIS. He hardly ever uses it, sure he could beat Hulk with it, but without whats so bad about beating him?
Sentry took it? That's ridiculous. Sentry stood on the sideline and watched BB whisper. Black was trying to free Gorgon, he had no intention of fighting the Sentry. Don't take things out of context like that, as its just stupid.
Also, Pak choosing to simply write down Blackgar whenever he feels like, also ridiculous. When Stan Lee, the creator of Hulk and The Inhumans constantly wrote that Black Bolt was far stronger and had him beat the Hulk without breaking a sweat, you'd think that he would fare a little better.
He also has MANY other ways of fighting the Hulk than simply standing there and screaming, while ruining the Moon in the process. Which he would never do....
Originally posted by llagrokTook the scream? No. Took the whisper? Yes. He felt it we all saw.
Sentry took it? That's ridiculous. Sentry stood on the sideline and watched BB whisper. Black was trying to free Gorgon, he had no intention of fighting the Sentry. Don't take things out of context like that, as its just stupid.Also, Pak choosing to simply write down Blackgar whenever he feels like, also ridiculous. When Stan Lee, the creator of Hulk and The Inhumans constantly wrote that Black Bolt was far stronger and had him beat the Hulk without breaking a sweat, you'd think that he would fare a little better.
He also has MANY other ways of fighting the Hulk than simply standing there and screaming, while ruining the Moon in the process. Which he would never do....
Originally posted by llagrok
Sentry took it? That's ridiculous. Sentry stood on the sideline and watched BB whisper. Black was trying to free Gorgon, he had no intention of fighting the Sentry. Don't take things out of context like that, as its just stupid.Also, Pak choosing to simply write down Blackgar whenever he feels like, also ridiculous. When Stan Lee, the creator of Hulk and The Inhumans constantly wrote that Black Bolt was far stronger and had him beat the Hulk without breaking a sweat, you'd think that he would fare a little better.
He also has MANY other ways of fighting the Hulk than simply standing there and screaming, while ruining the Moon in the process. Which he would never do....
BB wasnt written down,if you fail to see Hulks powerup then I cant say anymore.
BB has used his transmutation powers to blow up a powerless girl,freeze water,restore Ben Grimms bathrobe...help me out cause those are the only instances that I have seen.
Stan Lee wrote BB as being weaker than Hulk but gave him a reliable whisper that always did the job,Hulk got a power-up and Caiera died to boot,that whisper had better not have worked.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Seems like we're voting on too many things at once. Unless someone can make sense of it, we should try to simplify it and focus on 1-2 at a time.And remember, if opinion seems mixed, we either leave the person where they are or keep them in the lower of the two that are being debated. If you can't get a solid majority, let it go.
...
And I've been talking with the guys over at herochat some. A couple things I think we should consider:
- Moving Circe down from trans.
- Creating placements for multiple incarnations of Doomsday, since he's not always at the same level.
Originally posted by strengthkillsBB's used his electron manipulation to turn boulders into antimatter bombs, and play around with miniature black holes. Possibly even close them, I haven't read the fight for a little while. 😐
BB wasnt written down,if you fail to see Hulks powerup then I cant say anymore.BB has used his transmutation powers to blow up a powerless girl,freeze water,restore Ben Grimms bathrobe...help me out cause those are the only instances that I have seen.
Stan Lee wrote BB as being weaker than Hulk but gave him a reliable whisper that always did the job,Hulk got a power-up and Caiera died to boot,that whisper had better not have worked.