KMC Comic Book Tiers

Originally posted by darthgoober
Huh? Unless the poles were actually closed before, Rage's vote would have made it 9 for mid, 6 for low. That's really not all that big of a margin compared to what we normally look for, it seems like it should be discussed a little more IMO since she really hasn't been on the table that long.

Four days isn't enough time?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well Digi said he was going to put her up when the ratio hit 8-4 and it was up for four days now. Technically I think the pole was closed at that time.

Four days isn't enough time?

And I guess it could be me, but it seems like discussions go on longer than 4 days here when there are still people talking about it and there are still votes coming in(like Rage's just a few minutes ago and Ha Son's a little while ago).

Some people don't visit the forum on a day to day basis.

People can still vote. We had begun to reach a point where a ruling was safe to make, and it still is since there's a fairly clear majority atm. But unless discussion is completely done and has been for a while, I rarely "close" debate. If you'll notice, the vote tallies for both sides have changed since I first said I could probably make the move. A lot is my discretion, which sometimes makes me close things off when we get past "real" discussion and have people voting with 1-2 words without reading through the full debate.

And at the end of the day, it's a name moving slightly over on page 1. Try not to worry so much about it. Talk if you want, vote if you want. It's a free forum (well, mostly 😉 ).

Originally posted by darthgoober
He also said that he waiting clarification on my vote to count it one way or the other because he wasn't clear as to whether or not it got changed, so the vote wasn't actually at 8 to 4 at that time.

If not P then Q else R

But since Not P(as clearified by digi) that means Q

Even though you're now saying R.

We were waiting for you to confirm, but it looks like you did after Q got all the needed votes.

Meaning one interpretation after digi's clarification would have firmly put your vote in mid meta.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And I guess it could be me, but it seems like discussions go on longer than 4 days here when there are still people talking about it and there are still votes coming in(like Rage's just a few minutes ago and Ha Son's a little while ago).

So when do we stop?

We had a two thirds majority at one point in time.

jubilee - mid meta

1 for high
batdude123

10 for mid,
Creshosk
Blari Wind
Digi
leonidas
Wagstaff
Original Smurph
-Pr-
Battlehammer
Ha Son
guy2222

6 for low.
Kris Blaze
The Nuul
Blanket
Enyalus
Darthgoober
Rage.Of.Olympus

Assuming Batdude is serious:
H:1 = 5%
M:10 = 58%
L:6 = 37%

Assuming Batdude is not serious:
M:10 = 62.5%
L:6 = 37.5%

So what does the margin need to be? there's a 25% margin if bat dude isn't serious.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I think he meant for clarification as to where to put your vote since
Technically you voted like

If not P then Q else R

But since Not P(as clearified by digi) that means Q

Even though you're now saying R.

We were waiting for you to confirm, but it looks like you did after Q got all the needed votes.

Meaning one interpretation after digi's clarification would have firmly put your vote in mid meta.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So when do we stop?

We had a two thirds majority at one point in time.

Also Cresh, are you sure leo's vote is to have her at mid? He said...

Originally posted by leonidas
her most consistent levels (excluding her highest ones) still seem closer to the low end of the spectrum to me, but i can see where you are coming from and she seems to be pretty much in the middle of the 2. were she placed in mid i wouldn't really have a big issue with it.

...and while he does say that he wouldn't have a big issue with her being put at mid, to me it seems that he's of the opinion that Low would be a better placement for her.

Originally posted by darthgoober
No I said that if we were basing the list off of powerset ALONE I could see putting her at "Q". I didn't feel the need to get into a complicated discussion about what's "in character" for her because I was under the impression that status was an important factor and would be enough.

If not "status" then "Mid meta" else "low meta".
Not "Status" therefore "Mid meta"

Which is basically what you said.

Originally posted by darthgoober
A 2 to 1 vote is a "two thirds majority", it doesn't mean that the discussion is all but over. As long as the people are still actually debating and there are points still being brought up the discussion's still going and shouldn't be closed. But we can just agree to disagree on that part because Digi said that he didn't close the debate before so it's still going.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Also Cresh, are you sure leo's vote is to have her at mid? He said...

...and while he does say that he wouldn't have a big issue with her being put at mid, to me it seems that he's of the opinion that Low would be a better placement for her.

I think Mid Meta is a good place for Jubilee.

Originally posted by Creshosk
P is status.

If not "status" then "Mid meta" else "low meta".
Not "Status" therefore "Mid meta"

Which is basically what you said.

No what I said was...

Originally posted by darthgoober
I could see putting classic Jubilee at mid if the list was based off of powerset alone, but the fact that status also factors into it has me thinking that low meta is more appropriate. Her powers had lots in the way of potential, but she never really did anything particularly impressive to my knowledge(but if I'm wrong about that feel free to correct me).

... and as you can clearly see in the first sentence, my stance for her being a mid meta would be based off of powerset ALONE. But as I had clarified the tiers list isn't based off of powerset alone. And according to Digi, even in the lower tiers status can be a factor when a character straddles two tiers(like most people are saying Jubilee does).

Originally posted by Creshosk
And that doesn't answer my question.
You do realize that some people would vote against her because they find her annoying and not based on her powers? or any of her showings for that matter. She was used as a joke throw away character on the boards for so long. Because people didn't like her.

Sure it does, just not directly. Your question was "So when do we stop", and I answered...

Originally posted by darthgoober
A 2 to 1 vote is a "two thirds majority", it doesn't mean that the discussion is all but over. As long as the people are still actually debating and there are points still being brought up the discussion's still going and shouldn't be closed. But we can just agree to disagree on that part because Digi said that he didn't close the debate before so it's still going.

We stop when people AREN'T still debating and bringing up points.

I'm sure there are people who might vote against her for those reasons, but that doesn't mean we should cut off the vote as soon as you you think you've got enough people to put her at mid.

Originally posted by Creshosk
He said that she's in the middle of the two. You are really starting to irritate me.

Why is Grifter a middle street leveler?

Originally posted by darthgoober
No what I said was...

... and as you can clearly see in the first sentence, my stance for her being a mid meta would be based off of powerset ALONE. But as I had clarified the tiers list isn't based off of powerset alone. And according to Digi, even in the lower tiers status can be a factor when a character straddles two tiers(like most people are saying Jubilee does).[]b/]

Originally posted by darthgoober
[B]Sure it does, just not directly. Your question was "So when do we stop", and I answered...

Originally posted by darthgoober
We stop when people AREN'T still debating and bringing up points.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm sure there are people who might vote against her for those reasons, but that doesn't mean we should cut off the vote as soon as you you think you've got enough people to put her at mid.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Being in the middle of the two doesn't mean that he's voting for her to go to mid. Don't get me wrong because it may turn out that he does in fact want her there, I was just pointing out that he didn't actually cast that vote. But I'm sure he'll come and clarify if we ask him so there's nothing to stress over.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Is that why he said status is not a factor?

Is that why it says that this is based off of powers?

Quit ignoring the rules please.

I'm not ignoring rules...

Originally posted by Digi
Everything. "Total" power. We don't include prep or status, except as tiebreakers when someone is torn between two tiers for a character. But just their power...which is everything from experience and intelligence to raw power and versatility. And those total power gauges for each tier are determined by a composite of the characters within the tiers themselves.

It's not a completely objective criteria. But if it was, I'd end up closing the thread over the controversy that would ensue over minor details, exceptions, and loopholes.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Which doesn't answer my question.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Which I think people will still do to spite the character. Should I show you examples of the disrespect she gets?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Despite what it says in the rules about only needing 2-3 people ...

Originally posted by Creshosk
You'll notice he hasn't yet? Even though he's been on since I said that?

....................................

Anyway, rather than stay so far off topic why don't we talk about which tier she should be placed? What feats does Jubilee have that qualify her for a spot in the Mid-Mid Meta tier in your opinion? I know she pretty much destroyed a big house, but isn't that a feat that Gambit could accomplish with a deck of cards or someone like Batman could accomplish with the explosives they carry as standard equipment?

Originally posted by The Nuul
We just cant rate based on partial bits for each character, we should rate them as a whole. This list is not about who can beat who but we use it as an reference for the VS forum.

Okkk....

Originally posted by darthgoober

Anyway, rather than stay so far off topic why don't we talk about which tier she should be placed? What feats does Jubilee have that qualify her for a spot in the Mid-Mid Meta tier in your opinion? I know she pretty much destroyed a big house, but isn't that a feat that Gambit could accomplish with a deck of cards or someone like Batman could accomplish with the explosives they carry as standard equipment?

Of course if either run out of the object they can no longer do it. Jubilee doesn't run out.

Did we ever settle moving Wally West? Still don't see how the hell he isn't Top Tier, based on his feats and level of power.

He can take on and win a majority from a fair number of the Top Tier characters.

Just saying based on the level of power he has shown, he should be bumped up a notch.

You already have Zoom in the category. Yes in his initial appearance, he beat the crap out of Wally, but this was written by Johns. He'd have Wally having some serious trouble breaking light based on how he writes him.

After that, someone who was able to match Zoom just fine, Bart Allen as the Flash, was written as way below Wally West. Which is also illogical if we assume he has the entire Speed Force, but in the end it doesn't really matter as his power was added to Wally's own when he returned.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
For Wally to High Herald- Raoul, Kris, Rage, iceman24567, Philosophia, Endless Mike, Average Savage, Naija, Habinger, WarLord

Against Wally to High Herald- Digi, kgkg, xJLxKing, darthgoober, NewJak, Batdude

Looking through the thread we had a total of ten votes for and 6 votes against Wally West to high herald. That's:

F:10 = 62.5%
A:6 = 37.5%

That's exactly what it took to move Jubilee up. We didn't move Wally up though. Digi is a hater. uhuh