Originally posted by Dreampanther
😕
sorry, its not a personal attack. i just think you should read your own words, trim the fat (laa dee daa i wish it never happened, nobody deserved it) and see that you're attempting to partially justify the actions of terrorists, not even considering for a second that perhaps it could be done through MANIPULATION by their own leaders, be it warlord or cleric. you act as if the u.s. is directly responsible for their actions.
it has nothing to do with our occupations, but with our past neglects (post u.s.s.r. afghanistan). thats where we ****ed up.
and ffs again, why bring up iraq? please respond with more than a smilie.
Originally posted by Schecter
sorry, its not a personal attack. i just think you should read your own words, trim the fat (laa dee daa i wish it never happened, nobody deserved it) and see that you're attempting to partially justify the actions of terrorists, not even considering for a second that perhaps it could be done through MANIPULATION by their own leaders, be it warlord or cleric. you act as if the u.s. is directly responsible for their actions.it has nothing to do with our occupations, but with our past neglects (post u.s.s.r. afghanistan). thats where we ****ed up.
and ffs again, why bring up iraq? please respond with more than a smilie.
Cool. My arguments are not personal either - blame it on studying Sociology for too long... I like debating about relevant issues, and 9/11 can definitely be considered as such.
If you'll read back, you'll notice that I never explicitly mentioned Iraq - instead, I posited the theory and asked the question if perhaps America's foreign policies might have been, to some extent, a factor that provoked the attack, in the same sense that South Africa's domestic policies were responsible for the terrorist bombing attacks on innocent civilians by Nelson Mandela and his trained militants.
I suppose I did imply the Mid East, so therefore I guess you started talking about the Middle East, and then I responded... Perhaps this answers your question? Sorry, I did not mean to evade your question or cause confusion!
I got this from Wiki, perhaps it will help explain why Iraq and in fact the whole Mid East should be considered relevant to the debate:
"According to official U.S. government sources, the September 11 attacks were consistent with the mission statement of al-Qaeda. The overarching motivation for the present al-Qaeda campaign was set out in a 1998 fatwa issued by Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Shaykh Mir Hamzah, and the (Amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh, Fazlur Rahman).
The fatwa lists three "crimes and sins" committed by the Americans:
* U.S. military occupation of the Arabian Peninsula.
* U.S. aggression against the Iraqi people.
* U.S. support of Israel."
As for me justifying the attacks: No, I explicitly stated that I did not condone the attacks.
But
I argued that these were not random attacks by a few madmen. These people felt, justified or not, that THEY were justified, or provoked.
I did state, however, that one should investigate WHY they felt driven to attack the US - because retaliation usually only leads to the escalation of violence. If one can find the source of the aggravation, and negate that source, it would lead one to hope that these attacks will not occur again in the future...
(It’s a bit late here, I hope my answer makes sense! As you said, I do not want this to become personal, I really am interested in the issue and welcome any feedback and comments from you – since you are American, I would suppose you know a lot more about the US’s foreign policies – that is why I asked the question in the first place.
If it seemed to you that I condone the attacks – I can only state that there must have been a lack of communication between us. I was trained to ask questions and look for underlying reasons that cause visible reactions – if my questions caused offence, I apologise – I know this is a sensitive issue. But that is even more reason for trying to come up with as many solutions as possible, to prevent anything like this from ever happening again.)
i never suggested that you condoned the attacks.
my words: "partially justify" as in, though you can not logically relate to such an action, you can see a direct and beaming relation of action/reaction between the u.s. and the whole of the middle east. i disagree (if that was your point)
here's my take on u.s./middle east as a whole (because in u.s./middle east relations, thats all thats relevant.)
what i see i demagogue's claiming to speak for god, taking the opportunity to tie it all together as some kind of assault on the almighty himself. really we're taking their oil....all of it. its just common thievery. but they say america is the great satan who wants to crush gods people (apparently....only them.
they make the connection and are the motivators for the particular course of action in terrorism. its state mandated brainwashing and propaganda. its everywhere, mind youhttp://foxnews.com
but not nearly at that magnitude since its all tied together with faith. thats what makes it all unified and volatile.
some in isreal have proven quite sadistic toward palestinians and its never shown on our media. but then again the media doesnt show dead bodies here because its negative and might scare people and keep them from shopping.
point im making is that its not tied together. if this was a war on islam it would be, but it isnt. we buy oil from arab leaders and as a result they let us do whatever the hell we want, we allow isreal to exist becuase we feel guilty about allowing hitler to kill 6 million jews, so we taught them to fly fighter jets and drive tanks to have an immediate response force in the heart of the territory.
with that said, it has nothing to do with islam. sure there is prejudice here and a clinically retarded 32% who want to see the "ay-rabs" nuked, but there is no christian cruisade. just a band of crooks conducting various crimes in a giant treasure trove.
in the case of the 9/11 attacks, those were imho brainwashed middleclass bitches. research osama bin laden in his youth and prepare for laughs. these were not poor peasant people robbed of their livelyhood. they were likely convinced over a long period of time.
well, yeah, my opinion
:edit: by the way i wont attempt to justify any of the west's foreign policy in the middle east. its all just an appraisal really
Re: 9/11
Originally posted by The big EH
in about 1 minute all of the americans on this website is going to hate me, and think i'm a total *******, which i'm not i actually know someone who's dad had to clean up the towers, and that brought him to retiring.9/11
i know it was a terrible thing that happenned to america, the people died and everything, but america really needs to move on and accept it as past history like they did with Pearl Harbor, WW2, and WW1, all very horridable times, all milatary movements, and i think like PH, 9/11 was a milatary movement aswell, or just an act the government put up to use fear to help rule. anyway it is pretty much the only foriegn attack on america besides PH, and it's such a huge deal, it's like a city was taken out. in 6 years there as been 3 movies, almost as if somebody doesn't want anybody toforget those horridable moments, while PH has only had 2 or 3 movies in over 50 years. so what i wanna know why is 9/11 such a huge deal, so many things go on in europe everyday, you don't see them complaining and making movies about everysingle attack. and really casting nick cage in 9/11 is just awful he's a crapptacular actor, he prettymuch ruined skullrider (that and the storyline was extremely simple) and United 93 is a completly awful movie, trying to make a uge 2 and a half hour movie that lasted less time than that was crappy
you know what dude go sit on your finger and rotate. your lucky your in canada cause id break your neck for sitting there telling america to get over 9/11. i guarente that if that shit happened to you you wouldnt make such a drastic topic. at least we as americans send our prayers to people who die. canada is nothing more than a greedy little ***** country who thinks there better than everyone.
Re: Re: 9/11
Originally posted by PiruBlood
you know what dude go sit on your finger and rotate. your lucky your in canada cause id break your neck for sitting there telling america to get over 9/11. i guarente that if that shit happened to you you wouldnt make such a drastic topic. at least we as americans send our prayers to people who die. canada is nothing more than a greedy little ***** country who thinks there better than everyone.
wow....reported. thanks for your contribution. 😬