Can you handle the Truth?

Started by Da Pittman432 pages

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]The devil had to have a free will in order to rebel because if he did not then he could not have rebelled against God, his creator.

How can a person rebel if they do not have free will? The answer to your question is in your question. If I make an intelligent life without the capacity to disobey guess what Da Pittman: it won't disobey me. But if I give that same life free will, there is the possibility that it might rebel--because it has now been endowed witht the power to choose.

Do you follow me? [/B]

I accept the Bible as it is written and its historical reference and not of the supernatural tales, however your view of the Bible is another story. You use the scriptures all the time and say that it is in the Bible there fore it must be true, so please as I have asked show me where it says that angels have free will? The question is that you say God is perfect and can not make a mistake and my example of a mistake is that angles could rebel against God without free will which I say is not stated in the Bible. If it is not in the Bible then I can not support it with scriptures so you must provide them saying that they do have free will in order to refute my statement.

As a side not how could you know God is perfect? Do you think God would have told anyone if he screwed up? Was there anyone around to see any of God’s work? For all we know this could be Earth 2.2 or Earth 100000000000000000000000.2.12, who is going to know?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Besides, you do not accept the Bible so it would be pointless to furnish a Scriptural reference for you.
That have never stopped you before, most of the time that is all you post even if no one asked for it. Is it because there is none 😉

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus is the only "One" Who does not profess that there are many paths to God. He claims to be [b]the Way to God. [/B]

Jesus was just a man.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
I accept the Bible as it is written and its historical reference and not of the supernatural tales, however your view of the Bible is another story. You use the scriptures all the time and say that it is in the Bible there fore it must be true, so please as I have asked show me where it says that angels have free will? The question is that you say God is perfect and can not make a mistake and my example of a mistake is that angles could rebel against God without free will which I say is not stated in the Bible. If it is not in the Bible then I can not support it with scriptures so you must provide them saying that they do have free will in order to refute my statement.

As a side not how could you know God is perfect? Do you think God would have told anyone if he screwed up? Was there anyone around to see any of God’s work? For all we know this could be Earth 2.2 or Earth 100000000000000000000000.2.12, who is going to know?
That have never stopped you before, most of the time that is all you post even if no one asked for it. Is it because there is none 😉

God has not revealed everything that there is to know about angels or anything that relates to Him for that matter. Other truths must be arrived at deductively. Again, I could quote Scriptures that support what I mean but you do not accept the Bible as being God's Word.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Jesus was just a man.

You are entitled to your opinion even if you are wrong. Besides, your statement is not based on anything substantive.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You must first prove that God does not exist.

I have told you repeatedly that evidence of God's existence is evinced in creation (i.e. all that exists). There is evidence pointing to God's existence but it must be arrived deductively because God is not visible. But just because God Himself is not viewable at the moment that does not mean that He does not exist. For example, just because you cannot see air, you can see evidence of its existence in its effect on other material things. Well, similarly, all life, and other material things show the effect of intelligent design. There is definite order and predictability in many things that we find in our universe. Scientists are able to make precise calculations using mathematics and instruments that are measured against objects in our solar system. I could go on but the point is that there is overwhelming proof of God's existence. Just because God doesn't show Himself is irrelevant. God has proven His existence through other means. Again, if this universe is so accidental and random, why doesn't any other planet exhibit all of the characeristics of earth? It is apparent that [B]this planet was made to be inhabited--just like the Bible states. [/B]

The burden of proof is in your hands.

Your knowledge of science is "high schools like". Look up Drake Equation please.

N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL

N* represents the number of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy

Question: How many stars are in the Milky Way Galaxy?
Answer: Current estimates are 100 billion.

fp is the fraction of stars that have planets around them

Question: What percentage of stars have planetary systems?
Answer: Current estimates range from 20% to 50%.

ne is the number of planets per star that are capable of sustaining life

Question: For each star that does have a planetary system, how many planets are capable of sustaining life?
Answer: Current estimates range from 1 to 5.

fl is the fraction of planets in ne where life evolves

Question: On what percentage of the planets that are capable of sustaining life does life actually evolve?
Answer: Current estimates range from 100% (where life can evolve it will) down to close to 0%.

fi is the fraction of fl where intelligent life evolves

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That is not the purpose. The term "work" in reference to the relationship with God that believers have through Jesus is a misapplied term. Does your relationship with your loved one (be it a person or animal) work? Can't you see the problem with this manner of thinking? There is nothing that is supposed to work as such. We have a relationship with God through Christ and all of the blessings that entails--that is it. There is no work in the sense that you mean it. Besides, the term does not apply.

My religion "works".

My relationship with my wife "works".

My friendship with people around me "work"

I'm sorry if your religion does not "work".

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The burden of proof is in your hands.

Your knowledge of science is "high schools like". Look up Drake Equation please.

N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL

N* represents the number of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy

Question: How many stars are in the Milky Way Galaxy?
Answer: Current estimates are 100 billion.

fp is the fraction of stars that have planets around them

Question: What percentage of stars have planetary systems?
Answer: Current estimates range from 20% to 50%.

ne is the number of planets per star that are capable of sustaining life

Question: For each star that does have a planetary system, how many planets are capable of sustaining life?
Answer: Current estimates range from 1 to 5.

fl is the fraction of planets in ne where life evolves

Question: On what percentage of the planets that are capable of sustaining life does life actually evolve?
Answer: Current estimates range from 100% (where life can evolve it will) down to close to 0%.

fi is the fraction of fl where intelligent life evolves

Let me guess: you Googled "Can life exist elsewhere in the universe other than our planet earth?" and you found this link then plagiarized it.

http://www.wisegeek.com/contest/can-life-exist-elsewhere-in-the-universe-other-than-our-planet-earth.htm

Just kidding.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are entitled to your opinion even if you are wrong. Besides, your statement is not based on anything substantive.

Now you are just being childish.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
My religion "works".

My relationship with my wife "works".

My friendship with people around me "work"

I'm sorry if your religion does not "work".

What do you mean by "works?" This is a misapplied term in reference to the life of a believer. There is nothing to work.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Let me guess: you Googled "Can life exist elsewhere in the universe other than our planet earth?" and you found this link then plagiarized it.

http://www.wisegeek.com/contest/can-life-exist-elsewhere-in-the-universe-other-than-our-planet-earth.htm

Just kidding.

No, I looked up the Drake Equation.

Some examples of fail from one of your links:

* Jeremiah 33:22 claims that the stars of the heaven are innumerable. Hippocrates, before the invention of the telescope charted and numbered 1,022 stars. Kepler later recounted and revised the number. Today scientists agree with Jeremiah. There are billions just in our galaxy!

Stating that there are billions of stars is not stating that there are innumerable stars.

* Judges 5:20 mentions "the stars in their courses." While it was once believed that the stars were fixed, today we know that they too move in a predictable way.

Which is why a certain "star" confused the Greeks, Babylonians, and Egyptians due to it's course which did not follow the rest of the stars. This star would later become known as Mars, and would serve as one of the evidences supporting the idea that earth revolved around the sun.

* Job 38:19 is accurate in the way it characterizes light. Note that darkness is in a place but light is in a way. It travels a path.

wtf

* Job 38:24 indicates the light of the sun (by heating) makes the wind.

The attempt of air to equalize pressure differences between different air temperatures (and thus different air densities) is what causes wind.

* Job 36:27 asks how the rain drops stay small (discrete even in a strong wind)? One of the reasons is found in Psalm 135:5-7. Because of the electrical charges in the clouds, the rain drops repel each other as they fall. This is why electrical static during a rain or snow storm can interrupt transmissions.

This is the worst one of all imo. Rain drops are small to start off with because even at that size they are too heavy to be suspended in air, depending on the amount of wind turbulence of course. Water droplets travel in the way they do because it is the most aerodynamic way for them to travel through air. Toss water from a skyscraper and see if it stays a steady stream.

* Ezekiel 5:5, 38:12 claims that Jerusalem is the center of the earth. ICR commissioned a computer analysis of the earth’s land-masses and discovered that the geographic center is in Palestine, near the holy city.

Last I checked, earth was a sphere.

*Psalm 103:12 The Psalmist seeks to describe how far away God has removed the sins of those who have been forgiven. Interestingly, one can go west or east forever, unlike north and south.

The just sounds like an attempt at saying Lim|x|
as x->infinity is x

* Hebrews 1:11-12 describes the wearing down of the creation in language that nicely mirrors the second law of thermodynamics and II Peter 3:12 describes the heavens one day passing away in a fire that causes the elements to melt in fervent heat (a pretty accurate description of nuclear meltdown).

A cow has four legs. A table has four legs. Therefore, cow is table.

* Ecclesiastes 1:4-7 describes the whirling motion of the winds and the movement of storm fronts long before the advent of modern meteorology.

It's not hard to observe the swirling motion of certain storms either, having observed it firsthand myself.

* Job 37:16 also gives significant meteorological information, including the balancing of the vapors in the clouds. Job 36:27 adds that the quantity of the rain is proportional to the amount of vapor aloft.

First statement: it says the clouds have layers. Omg clouds have volume? Second statement: Where the hell does it say that the amount of rain is proportional to the amount of vapor?

* Job 26:7 The ancients Greeks believed that the world was held up by Atlas. Other civilizations held similar ideas. The Bible made an unusual claim: God did not hang the world on anything.

This is greek mythology. Look up the name Aristarchus of Samos or read the book Cosmos and learn more.

* Psalm 8:8 discusses the "paths of the seas." The story is told that when the man we call "the Father of Oceanography," Matthew Fontain Maury, read Psalm 8 the aforementioned phrase stuck in his mind. He later sought to confirm the idea and eventually wrote The Physical Geography of the Sea in1855. It was the first textbook on modern oceanography. The state of Virginia erected a memorial to him that cites this passage.

And George Washington never told a lie.

* Isaiah 40:12 Some have claimed that the Bible supports the "flat earth theory." But this passage declares that God sits upon the "circle of the earth."

Circle is flat. Sphere is round.

* Job 38:13-14 conveys the idea of the earth rotating on its axis: "the earth...is turned as clay to the seal."

That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it? It takes on form like clay under a seal, And stands out like a garment. Right...

* In Luke 17:34-36 the worldwide event of Christ’s return is being discussed. The scientifically significant fact is that these verses allude to the different time zones around the globe long before the earth’s rotation was understood by scientists. Note that when Christ comes, some will be enjoying nighttime sleep while others are grinding in preparation for the day’s baking (typically morning) and others are working in the field (typically afternoon).

How does it allude to timezones? It says jackshit concerning timezones. Here's a clever one: The different individuals may actually be in the SAME RELATIVE LOCATION, BECAUSE IT DOESN"T GO INTO DETAIL ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED.

* One of the directors of Standard Oil Company read in Exodus 2:3 how Moses was placed in an ark "daubed with slime and pitch." He sent the company geologist Charles Whitshott to determine if there was still oil in that region. The discovery of oil led to Standard having very successful well operations in Egypt. (Tan, Paul L., Encyclopedia of 7700 Illustrations, p. 191.)

Who was the director? Not to mention, slime and pitch doesn't necessarily make me think of oil.

* The practice of medical bleeding as a treatment (often with leeches) was common until the middle of the 19th century. Historians believe that George Washington's bleeding caused his death. (Thayer, William R., George Washington, 1922, p. 240) Ironically, by his bedside was a Bible that stated in Leviticus 17:11 "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."

There are also a multitude of ancient cultures who also considered blood to be a part of what gave people life.

* Linguists have determined that all the earth's peoples must have originally shared a common language. That is precisely what the Bible declares in Genesis 11:1.

Even the Aborigines? Last I checked they didn't have any form of foreign human contact until the 1700s.

* The concept of embodied in the laws of thermodynamics: the constant of the universe’s mass/energy and the universal tendency towards decay and disorder are clearly articulated in Ecclesiastes 3:14 and Romans 8:21-22.

Based on what I read, they talk more about birth and death. That's just my interpretation of course. Interpretation? What's that?

* In Job 38:16 God challenges Job to find the "springs of the sea." These fresh water fountains emerging from the deep ocean floor have only been located in recent decades.

And it should be noted that they occur in volcanic areas where porous lava tubes and fissures reach aquifers. Ancient hawaiians used get fresh water from these "springs." Omgz recent discovery?

* Much of the Old Testament Levitical law is comprised of health-related restrictions involving diet, cleansing, and quarantine. The book "None of These Diseases" and Keller’s work demonstrate the healthfulness of following that advice. Human medicine did not realize this until thousands of years after it was written!

They forgot gayness as well.

Conclusion: Most of these statements are assumptions that support their claims.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God has not revealed [B]everything that there is to know about angels or anything that relates to Him for that matter. Other truths must be arrived at deductively. Again, I could quote Scriptures that support what I mean but you do not accept the Bible as being God's Word. [/B]
You do not provide any scriptures that say that angles have free will because there are none, only your speculation. It is made very clear and to the point that free will is the greatest gift and was given to man, this is very clear throughout the Bible. Man was given the greatest gift of all and Satan was jealous of this gift, so why would be jealous of something he already had?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are entitled to your opinion even if you are wrong. Besides, your statement is not based on anything substantive.

Unitarians would agree with him, and they were the OC, yo.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What do you mean by "works?" This is a misapplied term in reference to the life of a believer. There is nothing to work.

Work means to me that something fulfills a function that it was design for. Like my TV works when I turn it one.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Now you are just being childish.

Your opinion is not based on any evidence. You did not even attempt to prove your claim that "Jesus was just a man." So, I concluded that your claim fell into the realm of opinion--and we all know opinion has little to no value in an intelligent discussion.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Your opinion is not based on any evidence. You did not even attempt to prove your claim that "Jesus was just a man." So, I concluded that your claim fell into the realm of opinion--and we all know opinion has little to no value in an intelligent discussion.

There is only one piece of credible evidence for a man named Jesus, and that was an account of his Crucifixion. As for the other part, I don't believe in magic.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Your opinion is not based on any evidence. You did not even attempt to prove your claim that "Jesus was just a man." So, I concluded that your claim fell into the realm of opinion--and we all know opinion has little to no value in an intelligent discussion.
He was born, grew up from a child, had hair, talked; needed to breathe and eat to stay alive, bleed when cut and all of this backed up by not only the Bible but other accounts and historical evidence so it has been proven that he is a man or acts in human fashion. So it is the burden to prove that he is more.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Work means to me that something fulfills a function that it was design for. Like my TV works when I turn it one.

But the relationship that believers have with God through Jesus Christ does not fit that characterization. There is nothing to work. See, if you have a religion then there is something to work. But believers understand that what we have in Christ is not a religion--but eternal life and freedom. To people who hold to semantics Christianity is a religion, but that is not how believers choose to describe the liberty that we have in Christ. In every "religion" (again excluding Christianity) there is a litany of things that must be done in order to achieve peace or oneness or nirvana etc. There is none of that in Christ. There is only life. Jesus did not come to bring religion, He came to this earth so that we might have life and have it more abundantly. This is God's will whether any of us experience it or not.

Do you follow what I mean?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You must first prove that God does not exist.

You must prove that a god exists. Ok you go again. lol It's almost as if neither side can be proven.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is only one piece of credible evidence for a man named Jesus, and that was an account of his Crucifixion. As for the other part, I don't believe in magic.

To you, "There is only one piece of credible evidence for a man named Jesus, and that was an account of his Crucifixion." But to me, there is ample evidence of Jesus' divinity. But...it really doesn't matter because I believe and accept this evidence by faith, but you deny it.