Can you handle the Truth?

Started by JesusIsAlive432 pages

Table 1 – Cause for the Universe

Premise 1:
Whatever begins to exist must have a cause.

Premise 2:
The Universe began to exist.

Conclusion:
Therefore the Universe has a cause.

Appendix B – Universal Formation Probability

Table 2 – Probability for Universal and Earth Formation to Support Life

[[15]]

Number
Parameter
Probability

1
galaxy size
0.1

2
galaxy type
0.1

3
galaxy location
0.1

4
star location relative to galactic center
0.2

5
star distance from closest spiral arm
0.1

6
z-axis extremes of star’s orbit
0.1

7
proximity of solar nebula to a supernova eruption
0.01

8
timing of solar nebula formation relative to supernova eruption
0.01

9
number of stars in system
0.2

10
star birth date
0.2

11
star age
0.4

12
star metallicity
0.05

13
star orbital eccentricity
0.1

14
star’s distance from galactic plane
0.1

15
star mass
0.001

16
star luminosity relative to speciation
0.0001

17
star color
0.4

18
H3+ production
0.1

19
supernovae rates & locations
0.01

20
white dwarf binary types, rates, & locations
0.01

21
planetary distance from star
0.001

22
inclination of planetary orbit
0.5

23
axis tilt of planet
0.3

24
rate of change of axial tilt
0.01

25
planetary rotation period
0.1

26
rate of change in planetary rotation period
0.05

27
planetary orbit eccentricity
0.3

28
surface gravity (escape velocity)
0.001

29
tidal force
0.1

30
magnetic field
0.01

31
albedo
0.1

32
density
0.1

33
thickness of crust
0.01

34
oceans-to-continents ratio
0.2

35
rate of change in oceans to continents ratio
0.1

36
global distribution of continents
0.3

37
frequency & extent of ice ages
0.1

38
asteroidal & cometary collision rate
0.1

39
change in asteroidal & cometary collision rates
0.1

40
mass of body colliding with primordial earth
0.002

41
timing of body colliding with primordial earth
0.05

42
rate of change in asteroid & comet collision rate
0.1

43
position & mass of Jupiter relative to Earth
0.01

44
major planet eccentricities
0.1

45
major planet orbital instabilities
0.1

46
drift and rate of drift in major planet distances
0.1

47
atmospheric transparency
0.01

48
atmospheric pressure
0.1

49
atmospheric electric discharge rate
0.1

50
atmospheric temperature gradient
0.01

51
carbon dioxide level in atmosphere
0.01

52
oxygen quantity in atmosphere
0.01

53
chlorine quantity in atmosphere
0.1

54
iron quantity in oceans
0.1

55
tropospheric ozone quantity
0.01

56
stratospheric ozone quantity
0.01

57
mesospheric ozone quantity
0.01

58
water vapor level in atmosphere
0.01

59
oxygen to nitrogen ratio in atmosphere
0.1

60
quantity of greenhouse gases in atmosphere
0.01

61
quantity of forest & grass fires
0.01

62
quantity of sea salt aerosols
0.1

63
soil mineralization
0.1

64
quantity of decomposer bacteria in soil
0.01

65
quantity of mycorrhizal fungi in soil
0.01

66
quantity of nitrifying microbes in soil
0.01

67
quantity of soil sulfur
0.1

68
quantity of sulfur in the life planet’s core
0.1

69
tectonic activity
0.1

70
rate of decline in tectonic activity
0.1

71
volcanic activity
0.1

72
rate of decline in volcanic activity
0.1

73
viscosity at Earth core boundaries
0.01

74
biomass to minicomet infall ratio
0.01

75
regularity of minicometary infall
0.1

Combined probability:
10^ -99

http://www.halozone.com/appologetics/god_big_bang.shtml#_Toc499567930

What say you Inimalist?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[b]Table 1 – Cause for the Universe

Premise 1:
Whatever begins to exist must have a cause.

Premise 2:
The Universe began to exist.

Conclusion:
Therefore the Universe has a cause.

[/color] [/B]

However you theory fails with the current theory that the universe has always existed therefore it wasn't created. 😉

"W.B. Bonnor (in 1960) wrote that, "a singularity in mathematics is an indication of the breakdown of a theory" that must be done away with, and Cambridge astrophysicist B. J. Carr (in 1982) said that "all known physics breaks down" in a singularity. Oxford professor of astrophysics Dennis Sciama (in 1967) declared the big-bang singularity to be "one of the botches" of the universe."

http://www.creationstudies.org/Education/big_bang
Mitchell, William C., Bye Bye Big Bang Hello Reality, Cosmic Sense Books,
2002, Mitchell, p. 52

Where is Ordo when you need him?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What say you Inimalist?

not much...

statistics are pretty manipulable. For instance, the actual probability of the formation of Earth for life is 1. it happened.

also, you can interpret the statistical probability of events in many ways. I check KMC every day, so it could be said there is a close to 1 probability that I would check KMC today. However, if we look at every event that occurred between me waking up and writing this response, figured out the probability of them happening, in that order, we would see that it is practically impossible that the events that occurred to sit me at my computer this morning actually happened.

probabilities are only worthwhile when trying to explain future predictions. They are useless when describing past events, as the probability of anything in the past, which has occurred, occurring is 1, and the probability of things which didn't occur is 0.

"in 1960"

"in 1982"

"in 1967"

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
"in 1960"

"in 1982"

"in 1967"

What happened to Einstein's "Cosmological Constant" after Edwin Hubble observed/discoverd red shift?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
"in 1960"

"in 1982"

"in 1967"

👆 Not like we haven't learned anything since then 😉
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What happened to Einstein's "Cosmological Constant" after Edwin Hubble observed/discoverd red shift?
And what about the disoveries after that?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What happened to Einstein's "Cosmological Constant" after Edwin Hubble observed/discoverd red shift?

Einstein called the cosmological constant one of his greatest errors?

(I don't even know if that was because of Hubble anyhow...)

Originally posted by inimalist
Einstein called the cosmological constant one of his greatest errors?

(I don't even know if that was because of Hubble anyhow...)

YouTube videoIn other words the universe is not eternal.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
"W.B. Bonnor (in 1960) wrote that, "a singularity in mathematics is an indication of the breakdown of a theory" that must be done away with, and Cambridge astrophysicist B. J. Carr (in 1982) said that "all known physics breaks down" in a singularity. Oxford professor of astrophysics Dennis Sciama (in 1967) declared the big-bang singularity to be "one of the botches" of the universe."

http://www.creationstudies.org/Education/big_bang
Mitchell, William C., Bye Bye Big Bang Hello Reality, Cosmic Sense Books,
2002, Mitchell, p. 52

Where is Ordo when you need him?

every scientist on the planet would admit that any theory they are working on is, at best, a man made model that is by definition flawed and incomplete.

That there are potential mathematical (closed system) problems in our description of the universe (non-closed system at this point) is moot.

where is Godel when you need him?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
In other words the universe is not eternal.

you can lead me down whatever paths you would like sir

also, in response to the video, using difficulties in language and definition are hardly proof of anything.

and venomfangX? 😂

Originally posted by inimalist
you can lead me down whatever paths you would like sir

also, in response to the video, using difficulties in language and definition are hardly proof of anything.

and venomfangX? 😂

What didn't you understand?

😕

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What didn't you understand?

😕

Maybe the question is what don't you understand?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What didn't you understand?

😕

actually, you know what, you convinced me

some idiot named VenomFangX, on youtube, rehashing the oldest arguments that everyone here has explained the flaws in to you hundreds of times before, has managed to convince me that everything I had thought prior is incorrect

I fall to my knees and beg the lord for forgiveness

Salama A'likum, the glory of Allah surrounds us, and the logic you provided assures me of this. You have finally converted me to Islam, JIA, thank you so much.

أشهد أن لا إله إلاَّ الله و أشهد أن محمد رسول الله

Originally posted by inimalist
actually, you know what, you convinced me

some idiot named VenomFangX, on youtube, rehashing the oldest arguments that everyone here has explained the flaws in to you hundreds of times before, has managed to convince me that everything I had thought prior is incorrect

I fall to my knees and beg the lord for forgiveness

Salama A'likum, the glory of Allah surrounds us, and the logic you provided assures me of this. You have finally converted me to Islam, JIA, thank you so much.

أشهد أن لا إله إلاَّ الله و أشهد أن محمد رسول الله

So...what are you going to do about your sin problem? Islam does not have the answers.

(I know that you are being fascetious.)

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So...what are you going to do about your sin problem? Islam does not have the answers.

(I know that you are being fascetious.)

I don't have a problem with my sins, me and my sins are tight.

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't have a problem with my sins, me and my sins are tight.
Tight sins are the best 😄

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Tight sins are the best 😄

and the sloppy ones 😛

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't have a problem with my sins, me and my sins are tight.

"Mohammed

Many Muslims claim that Mohammed also never sinned. But compare his life to Jesus' life:

Broken treaties

While ruling in Medina, Mohammed made a treaty not to attack Mecca for ten years. He then attacked them the very next year. [CRI-33f]

Violence and assassination

Mohammed used violence, including assassination, to defeat and convert men to Islam [WR-98; EB, XV-648]. Jesus converted people by teaching, persuasion, and example. He never used force, nor would He allow His disciples to use force, even when His enemies attacked Him.

Polygamy

Mohammed had 12 wives and 2 concubines at the time of his death. [CRI-32]

Revelations for personal convenience and benefit

* Mohammed revealed that men could have plural wives, but not more than four at a time (Koran 4 - p48). However, a special revelation said that he himself could have more than 4 wives. He had 12 when he died. (Koran 33:50,51 - p228)

* He revealed that no man could marry his own daughter-in-law. Then a special revelation allowed him to take the wife of his adopted son. (Koran 33:37 - p227)

* Arabs once starved him, because they opposed his teaching against idolatry. He then received a "revelation" condoning idolatry. As soon as they released him, he reversed the revelation and again said idolatry was wrong. [EB, XV-647]

Mohammed himself never claimed to be sinless.

In fact he admitted he and other prophets committed sin. But he never claimed that Jesus sinned. [CRI-26,50; WR-99]

So, whereas Christians and Muslims agree Jesus was sinless, there is much reason to doubt Mohammed's sinlessness. Based on their character then, who was greater: Mohammed or Jesus?"

http://www.gospelway.com/religiousgroups/islam.php

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[b]"Mohammed

Many Muslims claim that Mohammed also never sinned. But compare his life to Jesus' life:

Broken treaties

While ruling in Medina, Mohammed made a treaty not to attack Mecca for ten years. He then attacked them the very next year. [CRI-33f]

Violence and assassination

Mohammed used violence, including assassination, to defeat and convert men to Islam [WR-98; EB, XV-648]. Jesus converted people by teaching, persuasion, and example. He never used force, nor would He allow His disciples to use force, even when His enemies attacked Him.

Polygamy

Mohammed had 12 wives and 2 concubines at the time of his death. [CRI-32]

Revelations for personal convenience and benefit

* Mohammed revealed that men could have plural wives, but not more than four at a time (Koran 4 - p48). However, a special revelation said that he himself could have more than 4 wives. He had 12 when he died. (Koran 33:50,51 - p228)

* He revealed that no man could marry his own daughter-in-law. Then a special revelation allowed him to take the wife of his adopted son. (Koran 33:37 - p227)

* Arabs once starved him, because they opposed his teaching against idolatry. He then received a "revelation" condoning idolatry. As soon as they released him, he reversed the revelation and again said idolatry was wrong. [EB, XV-647]

Mohammed himself never claimed to be sinless.

In fact he admitted he and other prophets committed sin. But he never claimed that Jesus sinned. [CRI-26,50; WR-99]

So, whereas Christians and Muslims agree Jesus was sinless, there is much reason to doubt Mohammed's sinlessness. Based on their character then, who was greater: Mohammed or Jesus?"

http://www.gospelway.com/religiousgroups/islam.php [/B]

Yea switching topics because you were trumped on your last one 😆