Originally posted by King Kandy
That's a possibility, but I think he might have stated that more explicitly in that case.
lol, I was reaching. The post made sense to me, I can understand why a Christian would believe God = Freedom
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Maybe he means that without God one is enslaved to the Devil?Though, that would be trading masters not really freeing.
language, huh?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God is omnipotent but He is also righteous and just.As believers we pursue God's will for our lives anyway so it doesn't matter whether one is or is not in control of his/her life. Why is that a question? If I want I can do anything I will or choose to do within my capacity and means. But I choose to live my life in pursuit of God's will despite the fact that I have a free will to choose to do otherwise.
Not true free will, since from your point of view (ie you've convinced yourself), if you don't do something specific, you'll be punished in the afterlife.
God giving you true free will, would mean that any action you take in life, would yield the same result(s) in the afterlife.
Face it, your preception of God isn't of a just and righteous diety, it's of a jealous and spoiled teenage girl. "Do this, or else!" *stamps little feet* Sorry, but it's time you handle the truth.
Originally posted by Robtard
Not true free will, since from your point of view (ie you've convinced yourself), if you don't do something specific, you'll be punished in the afterlife.God giving you true free will, would mean that any action you take in life, would yield the same result(s) in the afterlife.
Face it, your preception of God isn't of a just and righteous diety, it's of a jealous and spoiled teenage girl. "Do this, or else!" *stamps little feet* Sorry, but it's time you handle the truth.
I don't believe that I've convinced myself so much as I have acknowledged that I am what the Bible states that I am: a sinner.
I don't follow what you mean in this second statement. All I know is that God is the One making the rules not me and not you. Hence, it makes sense to me to be on the winning side.
No comment.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't believe that I've convinced myself so much as I have acknowledged that I am what the Bible states that I am: a sinner.I don't follow what you mean in this second statement. All I know is that God is the One making the rules not me and not you. Hence, it makes sense to me to be on the winning side.
Considering all things aren't equal by God's laws, rewards and punishments, your choices (aka Free will) are being tampered with by God. Otherwise accepting Jesus, or not accepting 'Jesus as the your savior blah, blah blah' would yield the same outcome in the afterlife.
In short, by your beliefs and dogmas, God isn't giving you free will, not truly.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't believe that I've convinced myself so much as I have acknowledged that I am what the Bible states that I am: a sinner.I don't follow what you mean in this second statement. All I know is that God is the One making the rules not me and not you. Hence, it makes sense to me to be on the winning side.
No comment.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't follow what you mean by that is perception not fact. I can provide a litany of choices that I make daily through my own volition. As far as I can possibly know I made every last one of those decisions voluntarily.
Even in a world that wasn't demonstrably deterministic free thought would still be myth. With God even less so.
Originally posted by King Kandy
That's not free will, that's a clumsy carrot and stick. Sure, you can do what you want... as long as you don't mind burning in hell for eternity. Not really much of a choice when the other option is eternal torment.
To further the point, the options are eternal torment or eternal bliss. Pretty much lights the path that religion in an invention of man for the sole purpose of keeping people in order.
Originally posted by King Kandy
That's not free will, that's a clumsy carrot and stick. Sure, you can do what you want... as long as you don't mind burning in hell for eternity. Not really much of a choice when the other option is eternal torment.
We live in a world where other people make the rules and we don't seem to have a problem with that. We even play games with rules and don't have a problem with that either. Well when you are God you are the one making the rules plain and simple. I don't see a problem.
Originally posted by Robtard
To further the point, the options are eternal torment or eternal bliss. Pretty much lights the path that religion in an invention of man for the sole purpose of keeping people in order.
You will not receive a second chance once you go into eternity without Jesus as your Lord and Savior. What happens when you realize you were wrong about sin and salvation?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You will not receive a second chance once you go into eternity without Jesus as your Lord and Savior. What happens when you realize you were wrong about sin and salvation?
That is non sequitur, sir.
To answer you question anyways. I don't believe God is this petty bastard you make him out to be, so that will not be the issue in my case.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
We live in a world where other people make the rules and we don't seem to have a problem with that. We even play games with rules and don't have a problem with that either. Well when you are God you are the one making the rules plain and simple. I don't see a problem.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
We live in a world where other people make the rules and we don't seem to have a problem with that. We even play games with rules and don't have a problem with that either. Well when you are God you are the one making the rules plain and simple. I don't see a problem.
In other words, god is the only one with free will.
Originally posted by Ordo
Wow...just wow. Can you explain that?
(I guess that statement needed clarification, eh? sorry if it got confusing or sounds like an attack or... whatever it could have sounded like...)
well, the way I see it, with or without God, no one really is free... there are rules and regulations and stuff, you know? so you can't really say that you really are "Free"-free.
so.. your freedom is restricted. you could choose to go against the law and stuff, but consequences come with it. Kind of like how God does it; He let's you do your thing within boundaries.
I like how JIA put it - God is righteous and just indeed. And yes, as believers, we do His Will anyway. to some it might matter if they control their life or not, to me it sort of does - but I can't rely on myself solely because... well, I'm not perfect. why choose to live by yourself if there's a God who is greater above you?
And yes, I could do so otherwise. believe me, I admit that sometimes I have done otherwise - as I have just said I'm not perfect. Then I experience the consequences of what I did - God's discipline and all that. (But the great thing about it is, you can always return to Him and because He loves us so much, He'll take us back.)
And about the perception thing - it's what we believe in. I could see your point, really, but well, you just have to take on a lot of things by faith.
Originally posted by Ordo
That was much more poetic than my response was going to be lol.
I have to agree that did sound poetic. xD
...but then again, as I've said, as a Christian, I (or.. well, we, anyway) just have to take on a lot of stuff by faith. If God says that we have free will and he's not controlling us like robots, then I just have to have faith in whatever He said. 😄