Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Don't you just love how this guy dictates to other posters but most of his posts are complete rubbish.....annoying. Got no business talking to other posters like that...damn.Anyway Superman cant wn by speedblitz Odin has control over time and space. Grandmaster has control over time and space and was able to see Runner moving at ultimate speed.
It takes time to control time and space. PC Supes gets him.
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Precrisis/?action=view¤t=maaldor14.jpg Yeah but he did intially suspend it so that they could both seal it off. Regardless the mere fact that they could seal of a big bang explosion without any straing of effort already speaks vollumes about hispower, not to mention Supes is vastly more pwoerful then PG so we already knew he was contributed the most energy. Let's see Thanos counter that.
Originally posted by Ouallada
Since when did I say anyone pulled punches? I'm saying that not all punches thrown connect, and that not all punches that connect do the same damage.No one is making up rules. I'm simply interpreting the rules in accordance to logic. If THor has done the godblast once, yes, he can certainly do it again. It simply won't be within Thor's character for anyone to go into a forum battle and shout Thor by godblast 10000/10 times. Why? His character, and thus the CIS that he is subject to, does not and has never indicated that Thor would godblast in every battle he is in. Hundreds of Thor appearances and less than a handful of godblasts is enough empirical proof.
And Superman hardly speedblitzes under those same CIS rules. If you like, you can show me where he has taken seconds to speed up, because his appearances say otherwise. Until you do, yes, using your logic, SS can and would do that to Superman. Flash, as mentioned, would not even need to be debated against Superman using your logic, as the latter would never touch him.
As to your first statement, I agree with arguing strategy and powersets. I do not agree in cherry-picking high-end feats. If all Flash is in forum battles involves his battle with zoom, black flash and stealing that planet's speed, while ignoring the other 99% of appearances that define Flash, then I guess I would not enjoy debating much. Until then, I'm guessing that you are the wrong debater for this forum.
You are making up rules (or going against them) when you say that Thor is not allowed to godblast anytime he wants when the rule specifically points out that he can. The rule specifically says that is allowed. Thus using that logic we can say that other characters are allowed to use their abilities even if they hardly have used them.
Also you don't understand the spirit of this forum. We are not arguing what will happen in a comic. We are arguing what will happen if these characters are fighting using optimal strategies and their full power set. I assure you, no one wants to argue with you (and neither is it interesting) if the spirit of your argument is not based off optimal strategies and full power set to win.
And note: A high end feat isn't necessarily valid. It can be PIS. So we must have sufficient evidence and times that say that the feat isn't PIS. So you don't need to use your '99% of the appearances that define a character' analogy. So there's no cherry picking of valid high end feats.
And nearly everytime SS was shown to travel from rest (all except one time) the panel showed him taken at least a second or two (one scan showed the time it took for him to reach light speed and beyond).
Originally posted by Ouallada
Do you know that Onslaught physically pulled the crystal out of Juggernaut?
Juggernaut is vulnerable to mystical attacks, not psychic attacks.
Psionic energy can do things physically. Look at Psylocke and Jean Grey for example. Juggs official bios along with panel evidence says that he is vulnerable to sufficient psionic attacks along with sufficient mystical attacks.
Originally posted by The Great GalenWhen did he suspend it? Seems like Maaldor implodes and PC Superman uses his super vision to look into the mass and see what is going on. After being disturbed by what he sees, him and Power Girl only "seal the warp that's bridging" that world and and ours. How is that sealing a big bang with heat vision?
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Precrisis/?action=view¤t=maaldor14.jpg Yeah but he did intially suspend it so that they could both seal it off. Regardless the mere fact that they could seal of a big bang explosion without any straing of effort already speaks vollumes about hispower, not to mention Supes is vastly more pwoerful then PG so we already knew he was contributed the most energy. Let's see Thanos counter that.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok both have great durability. I still think Thanos could beat on him but Thanos mindrapes him at any time.
How the hell can Thanos beat up on PC Superman? His energy attacks wouldn't be sufficient. His speed isn't sufficient and PC Supes is considerably stronger as well.
As far mind raping goes: PC Supes doesn't get mind raped if he doesn't want to. His will power accomplished a lot of things including successfully resisting Telepathy.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Agreed and its a shared feat.
When did he suspend it? Seems like Maaldor implodes and PC Superman uses his super vision to look into the mass and see what is going on. After being disturbed by what he sees, him and Power Girl only "seal the warp that's bridging" that world and and ours. How is that sealing a big bang with heat vision?
Originally posted by AllanklesHis energy attacks can launch Galactus and hurt the Maker. Both of these beings have power that dwarfs pc superman. His attacks would indeed hurt and beat Superman.
How the hell can Thanos beat up on PC Superman? His energy attacks wouldn't be sufficient. His speed isn't sufficient and PC Supes is considerably stronger as well.As far mind raping goes: PC Supes doesn't get mind raped if he doesn't want to. His will power accomplished a lot of things including successfully resisting Telepathy.
Thanos could and would hurt him and supes doesnt have the power to put him down. While Thanos can mindrape him. You havent proven he can resist this.
Originally posted by h1a8
You are making up rules (or going against them) when you say that Thor is not allowed to godblast anytime he wants when the rule specifically points out that he can. The rule specifically says that is allowed. Thus using that logic we can say that other characters are allowed to use their abilities even if they hardly have used them.Also you don't understand the spirit of this forum. We are not arguing what will happen in a comic. We are arguing what will happen if these characters are fighting using optimal strategies and their full power set. I assure you, no one wants to argue with you (and neither is it interesting) if the spirit of your argument is not based off optimal strategies and full power set to win.
And note: A high end feat isn't necessarily valid. It can be PIS. So we must have sufficient evidence and times that say that the feat isn't PIS. So you don't need to use your '99% of the appearances that define a character' analogy. So there's no cherry picking of [B]valid
high end feats.And nearly everytime SS was shown to travel from rest (all except one time) the panel showed him taken at least a second or two (one scan showed the time it took for him to reach light speed and beyond). [/B]
Quote me where the rules specifically say that Thor can Godblast 10000/10 times in a forum match. Go on. Until then, the "in character" stipulation, and CIS, say that Thor fights the way he has been shown to in the hundreds of comics he has been in. Guess how many Godblasts he has done in all those appearances? Not nearly enough. Thor CAN use his Godblast in a forum fight -- it is possible, simply improbable. That isn't taking his powerset away. It simply ensures that said powerset is used within character.
Even by my definition, there is absolutely no way a character will fight on this forum according to comics. The taking away of PIS alone allows for this. SS will get hammerlocked by BP in comics. Won't happen here. Deathstroke has a winning record against every Flash I can remember. Won't happen here. I understand the spirit of the forum, as you put it, and I can assure you that your assertation that most people use only the highest feats for each character does not sit with many people around here.
Cherry picking: the act of pointing at individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position. Apparently there is cherry-picking of high feats, unless you take all lower showings as PIS.
I have never seen that scan before. Plenty of scans that I have seen show otherwise. Did the feat in the IG saga take seconds, then? Did he take seconds to get to light speed when he physically searched the planet before Strange could complete a sentence? For every instance of Superman going FTL, there are many more which show him below light speed. Convince me that Superman is faster than SS in any way.
Originally posted by h1a8
Psionic energy can do things physically. Look at Psylocke and Jean Grey for example. Juggs official bios along with panel evidence says that he is vulnerable to sufficient psionic attacks along with sufficient mystical attacks.
That's not answering the question of how Onslaught's feat was not physical. If Psylocke were to use her blade or Jean were to use her TK, those would be physical applications of psionic energy. If either were to use their hands to physically pick up something, it would be a physical feat.
Juggernaut's forcefield and crystal shielding protects him from all attacks, but is weakest to mystical attacks. He is only vulnerable to psionic intrusion without his helmet.
Stop dancing around. Reference the scan and show me where it was psionic.
Originally posted by Ruin
Are you serious? Pre-Crisis Superman's resistance to magic was practically non existent. In fact, it was a major weakness. His showings were also about as inconsistent as it gets.Any way, Odin 10/10.
Sneezing away a Solar System?
Also, Odin's greatest feat was in 96. A far cry away from the "bugs bunny days of logic".
Originally posted by The Great GalenDude. By PC Superman's own words they only seal the warp that bridges the two worlds/dimensions/universes... whatever it is. Cmon man. They essentially seal the portal which connects the two. That's it. You make it sound like PC Superman looked at a big bang explosion and bathed it in heat vision, which nullified the big bang explosion. None of that happens at all in the scan you provided. Lame.
because the energies r powerful enough to create a new universe so essentially its big bang like explosion. He then along wit pg seal it away, without any strain or effort.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0👆
Dude. By PC Superman's own words they only seal the warp that bridges the two worlds/dimensions/universes... whatever it is. Cmon man. They essentially seal the portal which connects the two. That's it. You make it sound like PC Superman looked at a big bang explosion and bathed it in heat vision, which nullified the big bang explosion. None of that happens at all in the scan you provided. Lame.
Originally posted by Ouallada
Quote me where the rules specifically say that Thor can Godblast 10000/10 times in a forum match. Go on. Until then, the "in character" stipulation, and CIS, say that Thor fights the way he has been shown to in the hundreds of comics he has been in. Guess how many Godblasts he has done in all those appearances? Not nearly enough. Thor CAN use his Godblast in a forum fight -- it is possible, simply improbable. That isn't taking his powerset away. It simply ensures that said powerset is used within character.Even by my definition, there is absolutely no way a character will fight on this forum according to comics. The taking away of PIS alone allows for this. SS will get hammerlocked by BP in comics. Won't happen here. Deathstroke has a winning record against every Flash I can remember. Won't happen here. I understand the spirit of the forum, as you put it, and I can assure you that your assertation that most people use only the highest feats for each character does not sit with many people around here.
Cherry picking: the act of pointing at individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position. Apparently there is cherry-picking of high feats, unless you take all lower showings as PIS.
I have never seen that scan before. Plenty of scans that I have seen show otherwise. Did the feat in the IG saga take seconds, then? Did he take seconds to get to light speed when he physically searched the planet before Strange could complete a sentence? For every instance of Superman going FTL, there are many more which show him below light speed. Convince me that Superman is faster than SS in any way.
I just looked at the rules. They seem to have changed the wording to a lot of the rules. Trust me I've been here for a long time (look at my join date) and I always remember the PIS to have Thor being able to use his Godblast anytime and Flash using superspeed at anytime. It seems they made the rules more concise (more to the point with less examples).
If a character has performed a certain high caliber of feat enough times then it is not PIS and valid as 'fighting to a character's fullest extent'.
Low feats contradict high ones thus we choose high ones by default.
Everyone here chooses only the high feats for the character they want to win.
Another philosophy (yours) is to choose the average between high and low. But not only is this impossible (try it and you will see) due to people needing to point out specific feats as evidence, but it takes away a character's ability to exert themselves in the manner that they have shown before.
Now I understand if a character has 1 or 2 high end feats that contradicts the mass history of a character. That's why we called this PIS. I personally have a rule of three. If a character has performed a certain high caliber feat at least three times then that character can do it anytime without it being PIS.
Lastly the IG saga is the exception I was talking about. Do you remember me specifically saying talking about an exception?
SS searching the planet didn't necessarily mean he used speed. Since he has cosmic awareness he could have went out to an optimal location and scanned the whole planet from there and then came back. And this feat certainly took seconds (as Strange was talking for at least some seconds). And Superman has instantly performed many complex tasks in less than a second. So that feat doesn't disprove my 2 or more second needed to exceed light speed.
But guess what? You only listed 2 arguable feats
here where the majority of SS's history have him being a slow starter. So using your logic SS is a slow starter.
And the scan I'm talking about is then one where the panel is timing him when he enters a field as fast as he can. It showed the distanced he covered vs. the time it took him. And from my memory I calculated SS to achieving bullet speed within the first second and light speed and beyond after about two seconds.
