phoenix force vs mad jim jaspers/fury vs pretcon beyonder

Jim Japsers Remade the 616 Universe, end of story.

"I made everything actually, I made the sky, I made the Tiger the Lamb"

"I made the Stars"

Here's the Proof

In Captain Britain's series that came AFTER Jaspers was killed by the Fury,

it's clarified for those that tried to demean Jaspers' Feat.

"Although Captain UK and I defeated the Fury & contained the Jaspers' Warp,

the Continuum was sufficiently damaged"

Here the Bio and On Panel accounts are identical:

Bio

"Roma informed Linda her anomalous presence on 616,

was preventing the Damaged Reality (Universe) from fully Healing"

(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook 2006 Captain UK Bio)

On Panel verification

"Your presence is an anomaly,

that has prevented this Continuum (616 Universe) from Healing"

I did find more evidence to further prove, Jaspers was the 616 Universe.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/madjimj2.htm

GO down to 'The Mighty World of Marvel #9'

(on the right hand side of the poker dot Jaspers with a Cane)

Captain Britain knew the UK was Warped and "presumed" the World too,

but to his surprise,

"Captain Britain entered Jaspers' Office to find Jaspers,

a Giant at ONE with the Universe"

This, coupled with the rest of the evidence,

shuts down the opposition ... swank

The Official Jaspers 616 Bio also states that both Jaspers could Warp atleast a Universe.

Why would and How could the bio say this if he never did it?

(exceprt form the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006)

[/B]"BOTH Jaspers could effortlessly Warp Reality on a Dimension-Wide Scale"[/B]

Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey the (White Phoenix of the Crown) with an Electro Magnetic Pulse,

and exploding the PHOENIX FORCE into a Billion pieces:

On Panel verification:

😆

The FURY blasted Jaspers down to the skeletal form:

Jim Remakes himself in an instant:

🙄

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Official Jaspers 616 Bio also states that [B]both Jaspers could Warp atleast a Universe.

Why would and How could the bio say this if he never did it?

(exceprt form the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006)

"BOTH Jaspers could effortlessly Warp Reality on a Dimension-Wide Scale"[/B] [/B]

Dimensions exist within universes in Marvel.

Bio and On Panel accounts depicting the Phoenix Force (Host-less)

getting OWNED

1.

Bio

"The FORCE was Transported to the Ultraverse by a Sentient Alien Starship"

On Panel verification

The SHIP,

rips a HOLE in Space & Time in front of the PHOENIX FORCE in it's own Dimension,

"Out of one marvelous Universe and into another"

continues in the next post ...

2.

Bio

"it intended to use the FORCE'S Energy to power the recombination ...

IMPALED on a Lance of Energy ...

WOUNDED the Force sought out a host to Protect it as it HEALED"

On Panel verification

"Impaled, Spitted, the PHOENIX writhes as it's LIFE is SUCKED OUT"

"It has never known PAIN of this magnitude, it SCREAMS"

"It's willfully TORTURING the PHOENIX" ..... am I imagining things, or is it's FIRE GOING OUT,

the COLORS are FADING, like it's DYING"

"TRULY,

the PHOENIX is BATTLING for IT'S LIFE against the sear of Light that is STRIPPING it's POWER AWAY"

"WOUNDED the PHOENIX FALLS,

to SURVIVE, to MEND, to HEAL,

it MUST find a Host"

continues in the next post ....

3.

Bio

"the FORCE attacked the ship, threatening the stability of the planet ...

the Heroes were ABLE to DRIVE the FORCE into another Portal ...

and it Emerged Four Billion Years in the Past"

On Panel verification

A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (SIX in ALL)

are sent to battle the ACTUAL PHOENIX FORCE (WITHOUT a Host)

"The assembled Heroes are TIRED & BATTERED,

the PHOENIX is REBORN and FRESH"

AND they're STILL holding their own 🙄

The Six heroes BEAT (PHYSICALLY) the PHOENIX FORCE into and through the Portal

The PHOENIX FORCE ends up DISPLACED by FOUR Billion Years

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Dimensions exist within universes in Marvel.

Pocket Dimensions?

Yes.

Dimensions?

No.

Dimensions are Universes in the Multiverse in Marvel:

"Yet it is of such Concepts that the MULTIVERSE is made,

for the MULTIVERSE is a Transfinite number,

that is a Number Greater than Infinity of Universes,"

These Universes are often popularly called,

DIMENSIONS."

NuclearWinter is that you?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
That specific issue doesnt have to say its an avatar, if its established in previous issues that the firebird is a representation of the life force of reality. I have posted many issues of the firebird being called an avatar so i have nothing to prove.

If the Phoenix Force is stated to be the life force of reality, the sum and substance of all life, then how can that firebird be the sum of the Phoenix Force? Surely that would mean there would be no life anywhere else on panel because that firebird would be the sum of it. 😕

Or sensible and clued up readers would know that as stated on panel many a time the firebird is an avatar. It being an avatar is also stated in the bio. As is the point that the bird is just a manifestation of the life force, not the sum total.

A droplet of water from a glass of the stuff is still called water. On top of that, it being called water doesnt mean its the totality of it. The Phoenix Force has been split into many parts on panel before and each one of them still called the Phoenix Force.

Contradicted myself how? Ive posted scans alongside those Ultraforce ones stating that the firebird is an avatar, on top of that i posted scans stating that the avatar in Ultraforce was operating at a reduced power level as it wasnt operating within the universe it derives from. It is after all a manifestation of 616's life force. Look back and see before replying.

Then bring those scans. READABLE ones, none of those poor azz quality scans you post when you ramble.

The full Force as this thread is dealing with will be capable of everything the manifestation is and far more. What i berated other posters for doing was switching it around and trying to use this avatar as representative of the full power Phoenix. Doesnt work the other way around im afraid.

The bio supports on panel showings. On panel Phoenix avatars have been shattered, absorbed and then rechannelled only for the firebird to come out the other end like nothing had happened. Yes avatars have been hurt, so what?The Force has never on panel been killed however and yet there are on panel instances showing its essence is completely indestructible, therefore my point stands.

Jaspers /Fury can be killed, the Phoenix Force by canon as stated and shown on panel and within bios is immortal and indestructible. 😄 [/B]

As canon? As canon it was killed twice. Then there's the other time when Galactus nearly killed it but spared do to Roma, Death, and Watcher's plead. That's the canon Phoenix Force: vulnerable, killable, and owned. Nice try, even the bio confirms that it's been beaten.

If the Phoenix Force is stated to be the life force of reality, the sum and substance of all life, then how can that firebird be the sum of the Phoenix Force? Surely that would mean there would be no life anywhere else on panel because that firebird would be the sum of it. 😕

Wait, this Force can't act/manifest fully but not lets suppose it can. And from that we're suppose to believe this sum of all life is going to take out multiversal beings? Beyonder would curbstomp it and erase it from existence; death and Marvel's top beings couldn't do a thing to stop him, the sum of life force isn't either. Fury and Jasper don't win this, Beyonder does. But between Jasper/fury and Phoenix, MJJ and Fury take this. And entire universe's life force blew up and fury had scraps.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
As canon? As canon it was killed twice.

Then there's the other time when Galactus nearly killed it

but spared do to Roma, Death, and Watcher's plead.

That's the canon Phoenix Force: vulnerable, killable, and owned.

Nice try, even the bio confirms that it's been beaten.

It's been a while since you owned our friend.

Nice work. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's been a while since you owned our friend.

Nice work. 🙂

Thanks. And nice scans MM, backs up your argument nicely.

You should know me by now my friend.

I don’t cater for laziness so reposts will not be given any undue attention. A repost will simply be met with a link to the page where I previously decimated an argument.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Jim Japsers Remade the 616 Universe, end of story.

"I made everything actually, I made the sky, I made the Tiger the Lamb"

"I made the Stars"

[B]Here's the Proof

In Captain Britain's series that came AFTER Jaspers was killed by the Fury,

it's clarified for those that tried to demean Jaspers' Feat.

"Although Captain UK and I defeated the Fury & contained the Jaspers' Warp,

the Continuum was sufficiently damaged"

Here the Bio and On Panel accounts are identical:

Bio

"Roma informed Linda her anomalous presence on 616,

was preventing the Damaged Reality (Universe) from fully Healing"

(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook 2006 Captain UK Bio)

On Panel verification

"Your presence is an anomaly,

that has prevented this Continuum (616 Universe) from Healing"

I did find more evidence to further prove, Jaspers was the 616 Universe.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/madjimj2.htm

GO down to 'The Mighty World of Marvel #9'

(on the right hand side of the poker dot Jaspers with a Cane)

Captain Britain knew the UK was Warped and "presumed" the World too,

but to his surprise,

"Captain Britain entered Jaspers' Office to find Jaspers,

a Giant at ONE with the Universe"

This, coupled with the rest of the evidence,

shuts down the opposition ... swank [/B]

The above post word for word was posted by yourself and then subsequently thoroughly handled here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/449146_4-phoenix-force-first-fallen-james-braddock-vs-mad-jj-fury-eternity

You never went on to respond with on panel evidence or any evidence at all which countered my rebuttal so your repost in this thread is somewhat puzzling. Oversight or deliberate action (laziness), please see you rectify this practice prior to your next post. Thank you.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Official Jaspers 616 Bio also states that [B]both Jaspers could Warp atleast a Universe.

Why would and How could the bio say this if he never did it?

(exceprt form the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006)

[/B]"BOTH Jaspers could effortlessly Warp Reality on a Dimension-Wide Scale"[/B] [/B]

The official bio says this solely based on Romas opinion that Jaspers 616 was more powerful than Jaspers 238(who warped his universe before being destroyed) What your carefully cropped section of the bio doesn’t show is the summarized history of Jaspers where its stated that he warped just the country and presumably the world.

My post from the other Jaspers/Phoenix thread deals with your repost:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its rather amusing how you put marvunapp on a pedestal and highlight the fact that its held in high regard by the official source that is Marvunapp. Why? Because the scene where Jaspers is in a star-scape the site says is just Jaspers at one with the universe. That does not equate to saying Jaspers recreated the entire universe and yet despite the site saying that you are claiming that scene says and means something else. Storm is at one with the Earth, does that mean that her powers can recreate the entire globe? SS is at one with the universe, does that mean he has universal power or that he could recreate or destroy the universe with his power? The line isn’t ambiguous. It says nothing about remaking or recreating. It merely says at one, which means he was attuned to or connected with, that’s all. You really need to comprehend just what conclusive evidence is. Please don’t impose more of your supposition on us. Your opinion is not fact, your interpretation not conclusively confirmed by any official source, accept that.

On top of that what I find rather suspicious is the fact that despite hyping up the site and claiming it to be an authority on comic matters, you’re ignoring where it says “Jaspers let his reality warp spread across the country, and presumably the world”

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/madjimj2.htm

How selective Mr M. The site’s good enough to use to shut down any and everyone else’s arguments but when it disputes your own its ignored?😖hifty:

What double standards!! 😱

As does my posting on page 6 of this thread of both Roma and Jaspers referring to Jaspers and the damage he did to just the Earth:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/449137_6-phoenix-force-vs-mad-jim-jaspers-fury-vs-pretcon-beyonder

Originally posted by Mr Master
Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey the (White Phoenix of the Crown) with an Electro Magnetic Pulse,

and exploding the PHOENIX FORCE into a Billion pieces:

On Panel verification:

Please stop lying son. Jean never became the White Crown Phoenix until issue 154 of New X-men. Those scans are from issue 150. One of the telltale signs is the fact that shes not actually in her White Phoenix costume. Please stop trying to deceive impressionable young readers. Clued up people will see through your fallacy like a window.

Xorn may have shattered Jean Greys physical form, but that didn’t truly kill her, she was back in the pages of Endsong a few weeks later.

After Mr Masters scans of Jean being “killed” and the Force being shattered, both were seen in the very next issue of New X-men, both were seen in Endsong and Warsong.

The Phoenix Force was shattered and yet as I’ve been saying throughout this thread it still didn’t die, because it cannot. Shatter it, absorb it, use it abuse it and it will just reform at will. Your point is therefore void and mine just supported by your lovely scans.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The FURY blasted Jaspers down to the skeletal form:

Jim Remakes himself in an instant:

🙄

This query was (surprise surprise!!!) handled on page 6 of this thread:

Heres a choice quote from the lovely Galactic Storm

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Quite an easy query to answer. That occurred in Mighty World 11 within Jaspers reality warp where he had already stated he had created "everything" and where his reality warp had already been shown in the previous two issues to have spread across the country and as summarized on marvunapp.com's issue by issue summary.

Within his reality warp, what Jaspers says goes. For all we know within his warp he could have determined that he cant be harmed, that he didnt have to have a physical body within his reality, its all possible. Either way before Fury attacked Jaspers had already applied his powers to himself because he had previously in issue 10 (which the issue in question followed directly on from) been morphing himself into various shapes before being attacked by Captain Britain and proved impervious to his assaults.

Jaspers power is psionically activated, as supported by the bios reference to how to exact changes on himself he needs to have reality present for him to work with, plus theres the fact that Opal Luna Saturnyne the omniversal majestrix classified him as a psychokinetic i.e he warps reality psionically:

So once again we see a query of Mr Masters answered quite conclusively, we see no counter from him whatsoever and yet a repost of the same tired information. Sorry to tell ya mate but I think you missed a step. 😬

Originally posted by Mr Master
2.

[B]Bio

"it intended to use the FORCE'S Energy to power the recombination ...

IMPALED on a Lance of Energy ...

WOUNDED the Force sought out a host to Protect it as it HEALED"

On Panel verification

"Impaled, Spitted, the PHOENIX writhes as it's LIFE is SUCKED OUT"

"It has never known PAIN of this magnitude, it SCREAMS"

"It's willfully TORTURING the PHOENIX" ..... am I imagining things, or is it's FIRE GOING OUT,

the COLORS are FADING, like it's DYING"

"TRULY,

the PHOENIX is BATTLING for IT'S LIFE against the sear of Light that is STRIPPING it's POWER AWAY"

"WOUNDED the PHOENIX FALLS,

to SURVIVE, to MEND, to HEAL,

it MUST find a Host"

continues in the next post .... [/B]

Havent we been through this already mate? I must have missed the counter because I could swear that should come instead of a repost. As I will illustrate shortly, this post is irrelevant because the issue you’ve posted doesn’t feature the full Phoenix Force, but instead a part of it. On top of that this entire post is also made redundant by the fact that the same title shows later on that the Phoenix Force can be absorbed and used for a purpose, only for it to reform as if nothing happened:

So if in those beginning scenes you’ve posted, the Phoenix just let itself get absorbed at that point instead of being used later on in the title as my scans show, then it wouldn’t have died, the whole process would have had no affect whatsoever as the later scenes I’ve posted prove.

You have the comic, you’ve read it so knowing this why exactly have you posted these scans alongside that commentary knowing that it’s simply not true? Hmmmm 😉

Originally posted by Mr Master
3.

[B]Bio

"the FORCE attacked the ship, threatening the stability of the planet ...

the Heroes were ABLE to DRIVE the FORCE into another Portal ...

and it Emerged Four Billion Years in the Past"

On Panel verification

A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (SIX in ALL)

are sent to battle the ACTUAL PHOENIX FORCE (WITHOUT a Host)

"The assembled Heroes are TIRED & BATTERED,

the PHOENIX is REBORN and FRESH"

AND they're STILL holding their own 🙄

The Six heroes BEAT (PHYSICALLY) the PHOENIX FORCE into and through the Portal

The PHOENIX FORCE ends up DISPLACED by FOUR Billion Years

[/B]

Here’s where the query was previously answered by me again. Look through the subsequent pages and tell me if you find a counter to the points backed by conclusive on panel evidence or JUST a repost.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

I like how you're ignoring the fact that the Firebird is NOT the full Phoenix Force but instead an AVATAR of the Force.

"At the moment of alignment Feron called on the PHOENIX AVATAR":

"But instead tore out the portion of the Phoenix Force that bonded his student to the AVATAR":

"The COSMIC AVATAR she hosts erupts from its psychic confines"

The Phoenix Force is the life force of reality by canon, so for that firebird to be the full Force there would be no life anywhere else on panel and only that firebird. That firebird is a representation of the life force of reality at a universal level. The firebird is NOT necessarily the full Phoenix Force.

On top of that this AVATAR was not at full power because it was away from the universe from which it derives its power from..616:

Which explains this representation of the Forces showing in that issue you presented here Mr Master. However as we're talking about the FP Phoenix Force here, using those scans and trying to present them as representative of the FP Phoenix Force is a useless exercise when those scans dont feature the FP Phoenix Force.

Its the avatar of the Force. Not the full Force. What seems to have confused you is the fact that its referred to as the Phoenix Force. A droplet of water from a glass full of the stuff is still referred to as water. It is canon that the Force is the life force of reality, so you know that firebird isnt the totality of the Force, plus theres the fact thats its stated straight up on panel that the firebird is the avatar of the Phoenix Force. That doesnt mean that that Firebird cant be referred to as the Phoenix Force, because it is, its the Forces representation, you're just mistaken to believe its the whole of the Force.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/449137_2-phoenix-force-vs-mad-jim-jaspers-fury-vs-pretcon-beyonder

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Then bring those scans. READABLE ones, none of those poor azz quality scans you post when you ramble.

This is an empty comment from someone left stumped. There’s nothing wrong with the quality of my scans. No one else has complained about them, so the problem lies with you and your vision. Save the scan and zoom, adjust your monitor settings or invest in some specs. 🤓