Originally posted by StarhawkAnd yet we do and the federals do nothing about it because they can't. So, yes we do have that kind of power. For example, we said we're are not abiding by the Kyoto Accord. We didn't, so the federal government was forced to drop out of the Accord. Point and case.
And if the federal government wanted to they could force alberta to pay up, I don't think you understand that your province does not have the power to override the federal government..
Originally posted by Starhawk
No because your statement is incorrect. I have spent the last few months watching republicans and conservatives ignore environmental facts because they are scared of what the impact on big business will be.
Neither do I, I'm pretty left wing according to most measurements.
And I still think this thing is crap. Besides do you have any idea what the impact would be if we Kyoto would be stretched out to all nations in the world?
Do you have any idea how many people will starve to death so that nations can comply with it? How hurt developing nations will be? How much they are already being hurt?
Entire hospitals in Africa run on solar power, and the electricity falls out half of the time because of it. Complying with Kyoto and trying to decrease the amount of greenhouse gases we put into the air (something that has absolutely nothing to do with pollution) is costing us billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives in Africa.
That has nothing to do with right wing propaganda that is something that even a freaking co-founder of Greenpeace said.
You are willing to hurt the economy of your own nation, incredibly stupid but okay. At least you are going to be the one suffering from it in the end, because you are handicapped right? And the weaker population groups are always the one's to suffer first from economical downfalls.
But that you are also willing to hurt the economy of every damned nation on earth, to try to comply with an unproven theory (again also said by a co-founder of Greenpeace not just right winged Americans) and are willing to endanger and likely kill millions of people in Africa, the Middle east, Asia, Eastern Europa and South America in the process is just cruel.
Originally posted by Fishy
Neither do I, I'm pretty left wing according to most measurements.And I still think this thing is crap. Besides do you have any idea what the impact would be if we Kyoto would be stretched out to all nations in the world?
Do you have any idea how many people will starve to death so that nations can comply with it? How hurt developing nations will be? How much they are already being hurt?
Entire hospitals in Africa run on solar power, and the electricity falls out half of the time because of it. Complying with Kyoto and trying to decrease the amount of greenhouse gases we put into the air (something that has absolutely nothing to do with pollution) is costing us billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives in Africa.
That has nothing to do with right wing propaganda that is something that even a freaking co-founder of Greenpeace said.
You are willing to hurt the economy of your own nation, incredibly stupid but okay. At least you are going to be the one suffering from it in the end, because you are handicapped right? And the weaker population groups are always the one's to suffer first from economical downfalls.
But that you are also willing to hurt the economy of every damned nation on earth, to try to comply with an unproven theory (again also said by a co-founder of Greenpeace not just right winged Americans) and are willing to endanger and likely kill millions of people in Africa, the Middle east, Asia, Eastern Europa and South America in the process is just cruel.
Yes I am willing to hurt the economy to save the environment. It's the classic case of which is more important? Your money or your life? I choose my life.
Originally posted by Starhawk
The entire economy would not collapse, they would just have to make adjustments. And as I said we have ways of offsetting the costs.
You have yes, Africa, Eastern Europe, South America and a lot of damned country's in Asia don't.
You are basically willing to kill a hundred million people for a theory....
Originally posted by Starhawk
Actually yes. As I said before, my life means more to me then money.
Yeah, but you are putting it in danger more with your Kyoto bullshit (and that of many others) than the big businesses do by putting CO2 out. (not even counting in the amazing advantages we had thanks to them, I know you think 30 year life spans are great, but I think the Industrial Revolution rocked)
Originally posted by StarhawkAgreed, if the research shows what is actually going on, what is going to help and without other even worse consequences.
Yes, but now we have to find new ways of doing things. I'm sure businesses could find ways to keep doing what they are doing with less harmful effects to the environment.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Agreed, if the research shows what is actually going on, what is going to help and without other even worse consequences.
The current research is showing whats really going on, you just don't want to accept it. And we are not talking about the collapse of our economy, we are talking about an inconvenience to it which big business can afford to weather. It's not going to have the dire consequences you seem to think it will.
Originally posted by Starhawk
The current research is showing whats really going on, you just don't want to accept it. And we are not talking about the collapse of our economy, we are talking about an inconvenience to it which big business can afford to weather. It's not going to have the dire consequences you seem to think it will.
Inconveniences of big businesses are indeed hardly the problem of big businesses...it is we the consumers and the workers for the businesses that get ****ed....also, current research does a) not show that kyoto will have a positive effect and b) is very certain that it has an immensely more bad effect on our economy than you make it out to be, it also points out in many cases how it would be much, much cheaper to adopt to the possible (not factual) consequences environment nazis assume than to stick to kyoto.