The trouble with atheism

Originally posted by ThePittman
However this is a good example of taking something from its original meaning and twisting it to fit their own needs, I don’t think that there is any question that the concept of Satan came from the Bible. Now the idea of Satan the ruler of Hell/Underworld is an old concept and was around long before the Bible so even that the Bible used that from before to suit their needs but the character of Satan/Lucifer is purely a Bible creation.

Yeah that maybe the case but at any rate Satanism is still an example of atheism. As far as I know Anton de Lavey was the first to establish it as an official religon.

The issue here is not wether the meaning of Satanism has changed but wether Satanism in modern times is an athiestic religon.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah that maybe the case but at any rate Satanism is still an example of atheism. As far as I know Anton de Lavey was the first to establish it as an official religon.

The issue here is not wether the meaning of Satanism has changed but wether Satanism in modern times is an athiestic religon.

Originally posted by ThePittman
This is only one sect of the religion that doesn’t believe that Satan is a deity

Yeah thats correct at any rate I think this sect was the first.

Originally posted by ThePittman

and even so that it was formed as a religion would not make it an example of atheism at least by modern definition.

They dont belive in God or gods? 😕

Originally posted by ThePittman

Another sect of the religion believes in Set which is a god in mythology; however you took much of this out of context

Ok how did I take it out of context?

Originally posted by ThePittman

and only in the “religious” group of Satanists believe that he is not a deity.

You do know I did state that some Satanits believe that Satan is a god?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah thats correct at any rate I think this sect was the first.

They dont belive in God or gods? 😕

Ok how did I take it out of context?

You do know I did state that some Satanits believe that Satan is a god?

Originally posted by ThePittman
In your article they stated 3 different types of believers, dabblers, religious and traditional. You tried to imply that most followers of the faith didn’t believe that he was a deity but in fact that only occurs in most of the religious sect. This is not the formation of the religion as stated in the article but the modern version which the traditional sect would be more of what the religion was from.

I stated before that some Satanists believed that Satan was a God. I also specified the type of Satanist I was talking about. I said I was refering to Satanism started by Anton DaLavey, I in no way said there were no other Satanists with different beliefs, in fact I said there were.

Remember all im trying to do is give an example of something which can be considered to be atheism.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Well there are different sects those might be Luciferians and there are also "righteous" satanist who belive that Satan will come back.

Im talking about Satanism founded by Anton de Lavey (I think thats how you spell it).

I would say the bit I know about the Church of Satan he founded is an atheis Religion, it is somehow spititual and calls Satan the human nature or something and though it is not theist and with that atheist by definiton, I wouldn't say it is a Religion based on Atheism but again other moral ideals.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I would say the bit I know about the Church of Satan he founded is an atheis Religion, it is somehow spititual and calls Satan the human nature or something and though it is not theist and with that atheist by definiton, I wouldn't say it is a Religion based on Atheism but again other moral ideals.

Well this is what I know they dont belive in god or Gods or the afterlife. Thats athiest. The impression I got was the moral ideas come from "athiesm" in the sense that since they dont belive in the afterlife they have a certain viewpoint to life which is different from somebody who did believe in God.

They have a sort of enjoy iy while you can sort of thing. Im not saying its wrong just trying to give an example.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I stated before that some Satanists believed that Satan was a God. I also specified the type of Satanist I was talking about. I said I was refering to Satanism started by Anton DaLavey, I in no way said there were no other Satanists with different beliefs, in fact I said there were.

Remember all im trying to do is give an example of something which can be considered to be atheism.

Originally posted by ThePittman
However that they referrer to it as a religion would lead that it is not an atheistic belief.

I would disagree. I cant see why atheism cant be a religon. Atheism is not believing in god or gods and Satanism comes under that defintion religon or not.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well this is what I know they dont belive in god or Gods or the afterlife. Thats athiest. The impression I got was the moral ideas come from "athiesm" in the sense that since they dont belive in the afterlife they have a certain viewpoint to life which is different from somebody who did believe in God.

They have a sort of enjoy iy while you can sort of thing. Im not saying its wrong just trying to give an example.

Well, lets say I can see what you are getting at, what would you like to derive from this point if it was indeed accurate?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, lets say I can see what you are getting at, what would you like to derive from this point if it was indeed accurate?

W-well its an example of an athiestic religon shrug....im just elaborating and adding some points....which I dont think were incorrect...maybe. 😮 Just a subjective sort of thing.....really...sort of.....please dont hurt me Bardock

Originally posted by Alfheim
I would disagree. I cant see why atheism cant be a religon. Atheism is not believing in god or gods and Satanism comes under that defintion religon or not.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Well by the meaning of the word and the idea means without religion.
By almost every definition of religion/theism it means the belief in a deity or divine power.

Well I looked up the eytmology of the word religon and it has two meaning. Apparently its not clear cut.

1. Reverence of the gods. If this is thr original meaning of the word that means Satanism is not a religon but an atheistic ideology.

2. Being conscientiousness. Well that could cover alot of thing.

Apparently though nobody is quite sure which one is the correct orginal meaning.

if atheism is a religion than belief and disbelief are the same thing.

Basically, you are saying "disbelief is a belief", which makes the term 'belief' worthless as a word, since it has no meaning

Originally posted by inimalist
if atheism is a religion than belief and disbelief are the same thing.

Basically, you are saying "disbelief is a belief", which makes the term 'belief' worthless as a word, since it has no meaning

Yeah I am saying disbelief is a belief. Its like the word nothing...nothing is always something..nobody can give me an example of nothing. Thin air...thats still something.

I dont think it makes the meaning of the word worthless, I think it just simply means disbelief is a different type of belief.

I wouldn't say atheism it a religion unto itself. Its generally part of a bigger ideology that one could perhaps argue to be a religion.

Your definition of belief includes disbelief

A word that also means it's opposite is useless. If small could also sometimes be big, it becomes useless as a descriptive tool.

You are making a linguistic argument. The only reason it looks right is because of the malleable nature of a subjective system of symbolic abstraction.

By the simple and exact logical extension of your argument, there is no reason to have language since it can be changed and configured to mean anything. There is no difference between black and white, therefore they are not different things to be described.

Originally posted by Ytse
I wouldn't say atheism it a religion unto itself. Its generally part of a bigger ideology that one could perhaps argue to be a religion.

well to some people

Originally posted by inimalist
Your definition of belief includes disbelief

A word that also means it's opposite is useless. If small could also sometimes be big, it becomes useless as a descriptive tool.

You are making a linguistic argument. The only reason it looks right is because of the malleable nature of a subjective system of symbolic abstraction.

By the simple and exact logical extension of your argument, there is no reason to have language since it can be changed and configured to mean anything. There is no difference between black and white, therefore they are not different things to be described.

I dont know about that. If I asked you what an athiest believed in you would say? Dont be suprised if you start the sentence with Athiests BELIEVE.....

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah I am saying disbelief is a belief. Its like the word nothing...nothing is always something..nobody can give me an example of nothing. Thin air...thats still something.

I dont think it makes the meaning of the word worthless, I think it just simply means disbelief is a different type of belief.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Vacum, Zero, Nothing 😛

.....................meh................. 😐