Sorry for double posting. But it seems nobody else has since I did last. Here we go. As for the SECOND part of your post:
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
2 points here...(quoting my other post)But the things is, talent isn't just measured in skill on an instrument...that's so shallow. Different people have different talents at different things.
First off, I never said that having more skill is the only way to measure talent. When did I say that? Are you implying it only takes skill to play Bach and transcribe his music, no, it’s an art.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Take"Rez" by Underworld as way to show how using effects (button pushing, knob turning etc...) take as much talent or is simply as great a thing as doing something like playing or transcribing BachSome techno I've heard (and I mean only "some"😉 I easily put up there with some of the other greatest achievements in music...simply because it's SO creative, SO innovative AND intricate (not to mention musical). But again, just like tons of people use effects on the guitar to sound better than they really are, lotsa people grab a keyboard and do the same. But if you know tehcno well, you can tell the good from the crap
Now, just listen to this for the 30 secs...(or don't bother reading the rest)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WY1qn-k9qE
What you have there is a 16 bar riff that gets repeated over an over, getting tweaked and varied more and more throughout the song (although to the untrained ear I'm sure it just sounds random). THAT 16 bar riff has a distinct, particular melody that includes inticate off-beats, augmented orchestration, complicated off-time rythms...and it even builds off the first half (8 bars) of itself to make the whole 16 bars make a kind of sense. And the list goes on as to how a creative, complicated and innovative piece of music it actually is. And what MAKES this piece of music so phenominal isn't any type of playing or transcribing...IT IS button pushing and IT IS knob turning, etc...If you "get" the song, it's pure genius...and if you're in the right state of mind and that thing comes on, it can honestly sound like THE most beautiful thing you've ever heard in your life...and it achieves this by the musicians having been extremely creative and innovative with "button pushing "and "knob turning"...something that's a talent all it's own.
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Ok, I listened to that , nothing special, repetitious cliché Techno. You said “I easily put it up there.” Good then do it, your entitled to your OPINION. And don’t go listing things like bar structure and expect me to be impressed. What was the point of that? “off time rhythms”, “augmented orchestration”…. ok well that’s supposed to impress me too? I didn’t see anything here but your opinion. Anybody who knows the basics of music theory and structure can tell me about that. No, I don’t “get “ the song. Do you get that Bach has written masterpieces that have been played for over 300 years PAST his death? Why would that be? Because of the shear mastery, complexity and beauty of his music. Virtuosos world renowned MUCISIANS still play his music (in hopes of mastering it) and I am sure they would have better musical aesthetic taste than you. Yes they’ve spent their WHOLE lives questioning what makes music beautiful, and they play it and study it. Bach’s music is so great it’s immortal. What about ‘rez’ by Underworld – hardly. Don’t compare the two.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
2 points here...(quoting my other post)
So I have to ask the same question...do you know HOW HARD it is to know how to produce and engineer music like that...and to create the purposeful sonic nuances that are made to sound musical...and to lay down the fast and inticate rythms that are there? (which again, I guarantee you aren't there randomly). Do you know how much WORK and TALENT it takes to achieve the greatness that's been achevied with this piece of music sonically? They've made this piece of music from MACHINES (button pushing/knob turning)...the effects ARE the music (which is why I questioned earlier if there's even such a thing as "incing" or "cake" with effects). The guys in Underworld have worked really hard to used their unique talent and skill to make something so incredible....definitley AS incredible as what Segovia does.
No, to be honest, I DON’T know HOW HARD it is. But is it ‘as hard’ as playing a Brandenburg concerto or one of Bach’s cello pieces? I highly doubt that, but this is your thread. You have the burden of proof. YOU’VE GIVEN ME NOTHING BUT YOUR OPINION. I’ve read through your post, and I had to sort through TONS of meaningless fluff. Make your post more concise, more organized, and logical. Make them shorter. Nobody wants to read 2 pages of fluff and SIFT through it for any kind of argument. So please rewrite your ARGUMENTS CONSISELY because I couldn’t even find them.
NOTE: Sorry I posted EP’s whole rant again. It was to tackle each ‘point’ he made. Hopefully he will omit a lot of what he wrote.
PS. I probably wont be on here for a couple of days because I’ll be busy as ****. I am sure EP will claim I ‘ran away’.
Originally posted by Bardock42Listen. You're confused. Get this straight.
That is word for ****ing word what AC said from the beginning.
Anything you can use to alter sound in a creative way (by using buttons, knobs, sliders, etc...) can be used as an instrument. I don't know any musician who would disagree with that.
AC doesn't think this. He thinks the reason that the guitar is the only thing that can be used as an instrument in this case, is because it’s what’s making the initial sound...THAT'S the only thing he thinks an instrument is.
But once more AC can’t even see his contradictions, because with a trumpet (which is clearly an instrument) YOU make a “buzzing” sound using your lips, and the trumpet alters it and makes a further sound by pushing buttons, pulling valves, etc…BUT WAIT, he just said an instrument is what makes the initial sound...not what alters it.
Thing is though, AC didn’t know you make a buzzing sound when you play a trumpet, which is why he argued if YOU make a sound (like with a vocoder) then it’s not an instrument. He goofed because of his limited knowledge of music making. He said you BLOW into a trumpet (like you’d BLOW into a harmonica), and that YOU DON’T make a sound. And he also said that because YOU make a sound with a vocoder, then it’s not an instrument (when actually, it’s the same process as a trumpet. You make a sound…it alters the sound by pushing buttons, turning knobs, etc…)
So I’ll say it again…Anything you can use to alter sound in a creative way (by using buttons, knobs, sliders, etc...) can be used as an instrument. I don't know any musician who would disagree with that.
As for the effects pedal, AC isn’t knowledgeable enough about music to understand that you can just play a note with a guitar, and then with effects give it a rhythm, arpeggiate it, change it's pitch, even churn out a simple melody...and actually DO more of the "writing" or "music making" of that part than the note you played for it (and AC balked at me last time I noted that) .If used creatively, the effects CAN be what's giving the feel, personality, and creativity of that part...more so than what a simple note played on the guitar has done. Again, most any musician would agree with that.
AC is CLEARLY WRONG...but please...continue to stick up for his faulty reasoning if you still think it's valid.
Originally posted by PezmergaNope actually. More specifically, you blow into a harmonica...you actually "buzz" into at trumpet. If you followed the discussion you'd see that AC was talking about why he thinks a vocoder can't be used like an instrument, and goofed when he said...
Dude you blow into a damn Trumpet.
"EP, you BLOW into a trumpet and IT makes the sound.
YOU make the sound and the VOCODER alters it.
But that's not true...with a trumpet and vocoder YOU make a SOUND, and pushing the buttons on each of them alters that sound. Something like a harmonica is what you don't make an initial sound with... you just blow into that. Look above
Thank you, EPIII you just lost.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Anything you can use to alter sound in a creative way (by using buttons, knobs, sliders, etc...) can be used as an instrument. I don't know any musician who would disagree with that.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, I would say that it is an instrument on the whole. The pedal is not though. Just a part.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Yes exactly... I was about to use a mute as an example for the trumpetWell, that's stating the obvious...because the only way a pedal could make a sound on it's own is if you threw it.
Thank you for proving my point.
WHAT?
Care to exaplain what nonsense you just posted?
Dude, honestly. You blindly stuck up for AC simply because he's disagreeing with me and you want to disagree with me.
He's wrong, You're wrong for backing him up. End of story.
EDIT: Ahh I get it. You're actually saying I'm wrong because you think I disgreed with YOU.
I KNOW what you've said regarding this stuff. That's why I didn't focus on you in my post. I focused on AC...you know, the person you were silly enough to stick up for.
I'd be WRONG, if you're saying he's RIGHT.
Is he right Bardock? I'd LOVE to hear you say how AC is right. Please just say it, so once and for all you two will be in unity in mind together as far as how much you know of what you're talking about
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
WHAT?Care to exaplain what nonsense you just posted?
Dude, honestly You blindly stuck up for AC simply because he's disagreeing with me and you want to disagree with me.
He's wrong, You're wrong for backing him up. End of story.
EDIT: Ahh I get it. You actually think I'm wrong because you think I disgreed with you.
I KNOW what you've said regarding this stuff. That's why I didn't focus on you in my post. I focused on AC...you know, the person you were silly enough to stick up for.
I'd be WRONG, if you're syaing he's RIGHT.
Is he right Bardock?
Again thank you, you just proved that I win.
Thank you, EPIII you just lost.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Anything you can use to alter sound in a creative way (by using buttons, knobs, sliders, etc...) can be used as an instrument. I don't know any musician who would disagree with that.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, I would say that it is an instrument on the whole. The pedal is not though. Just a part.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Yes exactly... I was about to use a mute as an example for the trumpetWell, that's stating the obvious...because the only way a pedal could make a sound on it's own is if you threw it.
Thank you for proving my point.
Ok, now I KNOW you're just grasping.
Weak. Truly weak. What a telling reaction of how right you've realized I actually am (but don't want to admit so you can keep your laughable alliance with AC...AC. )
Again, you said I'm wrong because you think I disagreed with you. But I wasn't even talking about you in that post, I just thought I'd clear it all up for you. And now you surely know how bad AC goofed...(but of course you won't admit it). So again...
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES...and this might help your cause.
I'd be WRONG, if you're saying he's RIGHT.Is he right Bardock? I'd LOVE to hear you say how AC is right. Please just say it, so once and for all you two will be in unity in mind together as far as how much you know of what you're talking about with this stuff
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
As for the effects pedal, AC isn’t knowledgeable enough about music to understand that you can just play a note with a guitar, and then with effects give it a rhythm, arpeggiate it, change it's pitch, even churn out a simple melody...and actually DO more of the "writing" or "music making" of that part than the note you played for it (and AC balked at me last time I noted that) .If used creatively, the effects CAN be what's giving the feel, personality, and creativity of that part...more so than what a simple note played on the guitar has done. Again, most any musician would agree with that.
(Actually...please don't bother. This threads sooo done.)
That's a very ignorant comment actually. Quite laughable in fact. Typical of you just showing up and blindly making the comments you do.
As far as trolling goes...there's a reason AC is nicknamed "Alpha Troll" amongst moderators.
And as far as bashing goes, there's a reason AC has been banned from KMC before.
AC is an outright punk and a jerk to people ALL ACROSS KMC.
I have unpopular ideas about music that happen to piss people off in this forum because I adamantly argue them.
My intention is to share what I think are important ideas about music. Now whether you think that sounds ridiculous is a whole other discussion.
I love how no matter what you post, EP, you get whooped.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
As far as trolling goes...there's a reason AC is nicknamed "Alpha Troll" amongst moderators.And as far as bashing goes, there's a reason AC has been banned from KMC before.
Do you even know anything about that? That's a factual lie because I have mods that will come in and back me up on a lot of what you just claimed, being false.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
AC is an outright punk and a jerk to people ALL ACROSS KMC.
Which is why I got the former mod of this forum PMing me saying that if I left, this forum wouldn't be the same without me. Why? Because for all the times people might not like how I do things, I'm a valued member. Everyone here just wants you gone, EP. If there was a choice between me and you, the members of this forum would have you out the KMC revolving door faster than Flash Gordon, and that's a fact.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
I have unpopular ideas about music that happen to piss people off in this forum because I adamantly argue them.
No, YOU piss people off, not your ideas, YOU. Your ideas are dumb and wrong, most of the time, but so are many other peoples', it's YOU that nobody likes. You aren't some cool rogue who goes against the grain with his ideas, you're just stupid in debates, and stupid in general.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
My intention is to share what I think are important ideas about music. Now whether you think that sounds ridiculous is a whole other discussion.
But you don't. You post a belief, then no matter what anyone does, you never look from other perspectives, you NEVER admit you are wrong, you spam, you troll, you create threads for nothing, you're a horrible cut and paste/repeater debater, you PM people the same things you post, and a general negative member of this forum. Every debate you have been in, you've lost. Nobody has agreed with you, ever, on any of your initial points, and the only way they do "agree" is when you convince yourself. You make claims that you believe are "factual" about everyone else, and then expect us to believe a word you say, you're a moron.
The place would be better off if you were gone, but you are lucky you've not given them reason to ban you.
All the times I was banned, it was for less than you've done. Never in my time here have I been met with such openly vocal backlash. People may not like me, but nobody here can actually stand you.
So if you are prepared to actually debate properly, admit when you've lost, and stop this bs of "To me...", "What matters to me...", and "I think...", when we are clearly proving contrary, you may be accepted and not everyone will hate you.
I've been far from a perfect member, but I will maintain that I haven't deserved my bans, and so will many. Warnings? Sure, I've earned my share. You? It's a miracle you're still here. People have been banned for less.
This stuff needed to be said, and now, I will reply to anything on topic you have to say, provided it's nothing all of us have already proven you wrong on, a.k.a everything.
EDIT: I've just been informed by a global and a regular mod that nobody calls me Alpha Troll, nor have they ever, and it's not a regular thing or a nickname. You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself, EPIIIBITES. Are you honestly so desperate that you would make up lies?
First threatening Backfire in PMs to ban me, then reporting HIM for not doing so, now you're slandering mods? Daaaamn. You're not gonna last long.
-AC
Hey. Good for you...one day it might actually dawn on you what a ridiculous thing you just said.
You respect a person who uses the most cut-throat, ridiculous, immature tactics possible to win an argument. And that's not just me saying that. TONS of people think that and allude to this very thing about him...because it's the truth.
THAT'S why he's been banned, constantly warned...everything you can think of short of being sued by people.
People EVERYWHERE hate this guy. I'm sorry, but that's the truth.
And it's because he's a jerk to people. Plain and simple.
So great. Just know who you "respect" (unless you're talking about intellect...then oh boy...are you actually serious?).