freedon nadd versus darth vader

Originally posted by Allankles
Nadd was a powerful dark sider but I doubt he can beat Vader.

He's lightsaber skills are unkown as are the limits of his force powers.

So for now, I'd have to say Vader beats Nadd. He was the apprentice of the most powerful Sith in history for 20+ years, not to mention one of the best lightsaber duelist. Vader was as mighty as they come.

I don't know who brought it up, but Xarga's comments on Nadd being more bad ass than Revan and Malak were referring to his cruelty,more so than any perceived superiority in force powers.

Yet again, Nadd conquered Onderon and apparently had less difficulty with the Massassi than Kun, and killed Sadow. His sith magic and spirit were never fully driven away from Onderon.

He infulenced Onderon; a single planet, Vader influenced an entire galaxy over a span of something like 30 years. He was apprentice to the greatest dark side master for over two decades. I don't see how Nadd beats Vader.

Nadd might be relatively powerful but I don't see how beats Vader based on what info there is on him.

Originally posted by darthsith19
If you've seen it, then I must have used that logic before. Mind showing me where? Cause I can't recall ever using the logic "anyone faster than Vader is stronger than him." I have, however, stated the opposite.

Originally posted by darthsith19

Just because they can, doesn't mean that it happened, and isn't proof of anything. Try again.

Originally posted by darthsith19

Why is that? Why shouldn't he say "the stories say"? That proves nothing.

Originally posted by darthsith19

If he was less powerful how could he be worse?

Originally posted by darthsith19

No, I have heard of the NEC, just not that part, and I could still easily see Nadd being greater than 80% of Sidious.

Originally posted by darthsith19

What is FOC? And I never said that he wasn't stronger, I want proof that he is "far more powerful" than his ROTS self, which is what you originally stated.

And not to mention you severely lack simple cow sense ,Why would the greatest and most powerful sith lord let his skills get rusty when he has all the holocrons during that time period to study and become stronger? Get my point? I doubt it

Originally posted by darthsith19

He and his amulets/artifacts were put into his tomb. Kun got the amulet from Nadd's tomb.

Originally posted by darthsith19

Force Crush will not stop an amulet blast.

Originally posted by darthsith19

Training under someone who is powerful doesn't necessarily make you powerful, Yoda could train someone like Scout for 50 years and she still wouldn't be stronger than Nadd or Exar Kun or Vader.

Originally posted by darthsith19

Still waiting for proof that Vader can block the amulet blast.

Originally posted by Allankles

I don't know who brought it up, but Xarga's comments on Nadd being more bad ass than Revan and Malak were referring to his cruelty,more so than any perceived superiority in force powers.

Nadd is to much of an unknown, we cant measure his real power and that he defeated Sagow, so what, Vader would pwn Sadow.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Nadd is to much of an unknown, we cant measure his real power and that he defeated Sagow, so what, Vader would pwn Sadow.

Originally posted by Allankles
He infulenced Onderon; a single planet, Vader influenced an entire galaxy over a span of something like 30 years. He was apprentice to the greatest dark side master for over two decades. I don't see how Nadd beats Vader.

Nadd might be relatively powerful but I don't see how beats Vader based on what info there is on him.

ur comparing apples and oranges here

nadd singlehandedly conquered an entire planet through his own personal power alone

vader 'influencing' an entire galaxy isnt comparable from a combat standpoint

Hmm vader used the force to divert blaster fire without touching it, i doubt that amulets can be blocked so since vader is smarter than nadd, he would attack with a force crush first and there is no evidence to point out that nadd even has a defence

LOL!

aside from knowing the technique himself, nadd possesses at least three defences:

1. he can use the 'force of will' power to defend against any direct application of the force through willpower alone

2. he can conjure a force shield that can defend its user against any force based, energy based or physical attack

3. he possesses the sith shield talisman which can defend against any force based or energy based attack

so hardly no defence, he has at least 3

Originally posted by IOU

aside from knowing the technique himself, nadd possesses at least three defences:

Originally posted by IOU

1. he can use the 'force of will' power to defend against any direct application of the force through willpower alone

Originally posted by IOU

2. he can conjure a force shield that can defend its user against any force based, energy based or physical attack

Originally posted by IOU

3. he possesses the sith shield talisman which can defend against any force based or energy based attack

Originally posted by IOU
ur comparing apples and oranges here

nadd singlehandedly conquered an entire planet through his own personal power alone

vader 'influencing' an entire galaxy isnt comparable from a combat standpoint

And please learn how to spell properly and capitalise

Originally posted by IOU
[B

in the totj companion hes stated as knowing every single jedi and sith power listed (which is virtually every power currently known to us (and apparently every power known to the ajo), including powers like force storm, force drain, force blocking etc.) as well as a bunch of unknown stuff from the legendary holocron of adas and the teachings of naga sadow [/B]

Originally posted by IOU
[B

in the totj companion hes stated as knowing every single jedi and sith power listed (which is virtually every power currently known to us (and apparently every power known to the ajo), including powers like force storm, force drain, force blocking etc.) as well as a bunch of unknown stuff from the legendary holocron of adas and the teachings of naga sadow [/B]

Nadd's force abilities and sith magic>Vader's abilities and limitations.

Orly? State the source

tales of the jedi companion

and apart from that how strong do we know it is since he has never once demonstrated it in his life?

clearly, the point flew way over your head

your assertion was that there is no evidence for nadd even having a defence for the force crush technique, which was false, and i called you out on it

whether nadds defence is strong enough to handle vaders application of his powers in another story (his power level as a 400 year old spirit certainly supports him having greater power than vader), but im not debating that, all im pointing out is that he does have a valid defence

Where was this canonically stated?

in the tales of the jedi companion

Btw vaders will power alone > nadd

"clearly, the point flew way over your head

your assertion was that there is no evidence for nadd even having a defence for the force crush technique, which was false, and i called you out on it

whether nadds defence is strong enough to handle vaders application of his powers in another story, but im not debating that, all im pointing out is that he does have a valid defence"

ftr, no proof for such a claim, given we dont have specifics on nadds exact power levels

oh and btw, u seem to be confused on how the power works; its not a battle of wills, but rather how well nadds will would be able to stand up against vaders attack power, so claiming that vaders will > nadds is entirely irrelevant

Question, quote a source which indicates nadd even had the force shield technique.

firstly, thats not a question, but a command

secondly, its a power listed in the totj companion, and in nadds section, under his 'special abilities' its stated that he knows every power listed in the sourcebook: "freedon nadd has knowledge of all jedi and sith force powers presented herein as well as those abilities still hidden in ancient holocrons and tomes"

Even if he did Kasims shield could barely hold of a simple force wave from bane let alone how is a shield going to block a crush of monstrous magnitude?

1. thats kasims shield, not nadds, who is undoubtedly weaker than nadd

2. the wave of force energy was in no way simple, given it was able to collapse the entire rakatan temple in seconds, and from what i know, vader hasnt produced power much greater if greater at all

And sadly a force shield doesnt block all techniques, it wouldnt block a force storm (not saying vader has the technique)

like rocas or whatever his name is you seem to think that the power of the force shield is derived from the technique itself and not from the user, which is just silly

the greater the force defence of its wielder, the stronger the shield, its that simple, and if its users defence is able to match its opponents offence, the defence works, theres nothing more to it

now the force shield has the capabilities to block any force based attack, let alone force crush which we know from pod can definitely be blocked by the shield. does that mean that a padawan would be able to use the force shield to block a force crush coming from a dark lord of the sith? of course not, but its all dependant on the power of the combatants involved, and thats something u dont seem to get

fyi, an untrained zannah was able to defend herself against the force storm instinctively with some form of force defence, most likely a force shield given its the most basic type, so there goes your force storm > any defence theory

So because he has the talisman it means he > sidious? he > revan? How would you know it is even going to be effective?

wow, i didnt realise one could misconstrue anothers argument so badly

"clearly, the point flew way over your head

your assertion was that there is no evidence for nadd even having a defence for the force crush technique, which was false, and i called you out on it

whether nadds defence is strong enough to handle vaders application of his powers in another story (his power level as a 400 year old spirit certainly supports him having greater power than vader), but im not debating that, all im pointing out is that he does have a valid defence"

Right and all nadd did was drove back beast riders which were at war with the people of iziz and nadd only made himself the leader of people in iziz. No where does it state nadd used force to conquer the planet

clearly u missed the part in kotor where it was stated that he single handedly conquered onderon with just his blaster and short lightsaber

or when vodo stated that he dominated the world with the powers of the darkside

And please learn how to spell properly and capitalise

😆 😆
C4PL0CkZ FTW!!!

Quote please

already been provided

Sadly only palpatine knows the force storm technique as DESB pointed out, dont make me call lightsnake out on this one

lol, 'dont make me call lightsnake out on this one'
is that supposed to scare me or something?

neways, ur wrong, its a power listed in the totj companion, a jedi power in fact, and it was said that the technique originated with the ancients and the desb doesnt dispute with that, and even if it did, the totj companion retcons it

Ok fine i get the point that you were stating the point where nadd does have a defence to force attacks, i concede on that

But however there is a few points i would like to debate on

freedon nadd has knowledge of all jedi and sith force powers presented herein as well as those abilities still hidden in ancient holocrons and tomes"

Firstly is there anything to suggest palpatines force storm derived from the ancient sith? There is only the possbility that it could have because according to desb, it states that palpatine invents new force techniques and so far palpatine was the only one who had demonstrated this technique which is tearing a wormhole in space.

And these were the sources which talk about force storm im referring too

* Dark Empire endnotes
* Dark Empire Sourcebook
* Handbook 3: Dark Empire
* Dark Side Sourcebook

I dont see TOTJ there

And lets talk about nihilus force drain technique, Unlike the normal drain this drain severs life from the force too right? Yes i know you realise this but kreia stated that this technique can only be given and not taught am i correct?

So how can it be possible that freedon nadd can know every force technique as you are so fond of pointing out?

now the force shield has the capabilities to block any force based attack, let alone force crush which we know from pod can definitely be blocked by the shield. does that mean that a padawan would be able to use the force shield to block a force crush coming from a dark lord of the sith? of course not, but its all dependant on the power of the combatants involved, and thats something u dont seem to get

I do get it now and yes i agree Nadd is powerful and capable of blocking the technique but so far how can we gauge nadds strength in the force? Because all nadd did was drove off the beast riders which attacked the city of iziz.

Nadd was not at war with the people of iziz and how did he "Conquer" the people and made himself king? He influenced them with sith magic and the dark side of the force

fyi, an untrained zannah was able to defend herself against the force storm instinctively with some form of force defence, most likely a force shield given its the most basic type, so there goes your force storm > any defence theory

Firstly IOU do you even bother to attempt to understand which force storm im refering too? I'm referring to the one which palpatine has,

The one powerful enough to rend the fabrics of space which destroyed the entire rebel fleet and completely destroyed part of the surface corsucant when palpatine sent a storm to teleport luke.

So yes my force storm(wormhole) > any defence theory save for the force sever technique which luke and leia used on the eclipse to cut palpatines control of the storm

the wave of force energy was in no way simple, given it was able to collapse the entire rakatan temple in seconds, and from what i know, vader hasnt produced power much greater if greater at all

This is out of point but correction, It destroyed only the foundations of the temple which made the entire temple collapse on him, And vader has displayed much greater display of the force.

*Tearing a tank with the crush technique with ease
*Sent a thug flying a hundred feet
*Levitated himself with the force to slice a piece of debris
*Having the ability to crush an entire medical room just by getting pissed despite still being inexperienced in the dark side of the force
*And his apprentice did crazy shit with the force in the force unleashed trailer
*Sending a pack of animals larger than him flying

^ I am not using that to dispute vader > nadd i am merely pointing out vader HAS displayed greater usage of the force

Ok the bottom line is i get your point of nadd having a defence and i apologise for taking it the wrong way, May i go back to debating with darth sith please? Thank you

Dont get the lightsnake thing wrong. I am NOT trying to intimidate you because that doesnt work here at all. He is just a much better debator when it comes to sidious techniques than i am

The techniques you are referring to such as the force storm and the super drain, were both derived from the ancient sith. Sidious took his technique to a whole new level though. And conquering an entire planet single handidly speaks volumes for Nadd.

Ok fine i get the point that you were stating the point where nadd does have a defence to force attacks, i concede on that

But however there is a few points i would like to debate on

freedon nadd has knowledge of all jedi and sith force powers presented herein as well as those abilities still hidden in ancient holocrons and tomes"

Firstly is there anything to suggest palpatines force storm derived from the ancient sith? There is only the possbility that it could have because according to desb, it states that palpatine invents new force techniques and so far palpatine was the only one who had demonstrated this technique which is tearing a wormhole in space.

And these were the sources which talk about force storm im referring too

* Dark Empire endnotes
* Dark Empire Sourcebook
* Handbook 3: Dark Empire
* Dark Side Sourcebook

I dont see TOTJ there

it was stated that the technique derived from the ancients, but that doesnt matter anyway, as the power (specifically the wormhole one) was listed in the totj companion as a jedi power, thus nadd knows it, and thats where he learnt it from; not the ancients

And lets talk about nihilus force drain technique, Unlike the normal drain this drain severs life from the force too right? Yes i know you realise this but kreia stated that this technique can only be given and not taught am i correct?

indeed, nihilus' drain does seem to be a somewhat unique variation of the technique, not disagreeing here

So how can it be possible that freedon nadd can know every force technique as you are so fond of pointing out?

dude, i never once said that nadd knew every single force technique, just the ones listed in the totj companion, as well as the stuff he learnt from adas' holocron and sadow's teachings, which he indeed does

now the force shield has the capabilities to block any force based attack, let alone force crush which we know from pod can definitely be blocked by the shield. does that mean that a padawan would be able to use the force shield to block a force crush coming from a dark lord of the sith? of course not, but its all dependant on the power of the combatants involved, and thats something u dont seem to get

I do get it now and yes i agree Nadd is powerful and capable of blocking the technique but so far how can we gauge nadds strength in the force? Because all nadd did was drove off the beast riders which attacked the city of iziz.

by looking at how powerful his spirit was

as we know, the power of spirits pale in comparison to that of ones true living form, and nadd had been one for 400 years, and was so much weaker to the point where he described himself as powerless [in comparison], yet he was still pretty powerful, being able to knock vodo down while lightyears away from him, among many other things, so it can be assumed that he was extremely powerful when he was alive

Nadd was not at war with the people of iziz and how did he "Conquer" the people and made himself king? He influenced them with sith magic and the dark side of the force

well the exact circumstances are unknown, however some sources say he achieved it through brute strength while others say that he impressed them with his powers

id speculate that he likely landed on onderon, kicked some serious ass, and then wowed the people with his sith magic, however thats just speculation, we dont really know how he did it

fyi, an untrained zannah was able to defend herself against the force storm instinctively with some form of force defence, most likely a force shield given its the most basic type, so there goes your force storm > any defence theory

Firstly IOU do you even bother to attempt to understand which force storm im refering too? I'm referring to the one which palpatine has,

The one powerful enough to rend the fabrics of space which destroyed the entire rebel fleet and completely destroyed part of the surface corsucant when palpatine sent a storm to teleport luke.

i understand that, however both variations are technically the same technique, and the one performed by the bod was seemingly even more destructive, so my point still stands

So yes my force storm(wormhole) > any defence theory save for the force sever technique which luke and leia used on the eclipse to cut palpatines control of the storm

well by that logic, vader has no chance in hell at winning this given that nadd himself knows the wormhole variant of the force storm

now 1 thing i will say is that a force storm from sidious would be near impossible to defend against, but do you really think it would really be beyond someone like luke skywalker, even when using just a standard defence? i sure as hell dont

but this is off topic anyway

the wave of force energy was in no way simple, given it was able to collapse the entire rakatan temple in seconds, and from what i know, vader hasnt produced power much greater if greater at all

This is out of point but correction, It destroyed only the foundations of the temple which made the entire temple collapse on him,

wasnt arguing against that, however either way you look at it, the attack was extremely destructive, and hardly what ud call 'simple'

'There was nothing subtle about Bane's attack: the massive shock wave shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan Temple. The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverise his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid.'

so clearly the attack was extremely powerful, but again, we've gotten pretty off topic

And vader has displayed much greater display of the force.

*Tearing a tank with the crush technique with ease
*Sent a thug flying a hundred feet
*Levitated himself with the force to slice a piece of debris
*Having the ability to crush an entire medical room just by getting pissed despite still being inexperienced in the dark side of the force
*And his apprentice did crazy shit with the force in the force unleashed trailer
*Sending a pack of animals larger than him flying

^ I am not using that to dispute vader > nadd i am merely pointing out vader HAS displayed greater usage of the force

greater? id say so
much greater? well thats pushing it a bit
however, this is largely off topic, who cares if vader is more powerful than bane?

Ok the bottom line is i get your point of nadd having a defence and i apologise for taking it the wrong way, May i go back to debating with darth sith please? Thank you

lol, sure thing, and i apologise too for being out of line earlier, ill keep this civil from now on

Dont get the lightsnake thing wrong. I am NOT trying to intimidate you because that doesnt work here at all. He is just a much better debator when it comes to sidious techniques than i am

i know lol, i was just kidding

If i recall corectly, you said bastila > vader, I may be wrong

Prove that what xarga said is true, freedon nadd has done nothing to puthimself above revan nor kun, And he got wtf when kun turned on him

Because he wasnt convinced

Prove it, right you cant. You said ROTS sidious isnt the most powerful sith, i proved you wrong now shut the hell up

Dumbshit foc is forces of corruption, and the visual guide stated during DE how palpatine got more powerful is because he studied more jedi holocrons wheres between the PT and OT he was studying alot of holocrons to become stronger which is backed up by numerous sources. You fail.

Wrong, nadds tomb was in dxun, sadows tomb is in

It will kill nadd before he fires the amulet, If he has one which he doesnt

So your saying vader is weak? Well he isnt, Dooku despite learning under palpatine for 13 years could go toe to toe with yoda and still survive though he was going to lose. And the interesting thing is that several novels indicate that palpatine is training vader with tremendous amounts of dark side knowledge. Vader is uber, get over it

Hmm vader used the force to divert blaster fire without touching it, i doubt that amulets can be blocked so since vader is smarter than nadd, he would attack with a force crush first and there is no evidence to point out that nadd even has a defence

I am with vader, really. First, i am with IOU, i believe vader showed greater usage of the force but much greater my be overdoing it.

About Nadd: it's true that he pushed away vodo but let's not forget he was on Koribban, with all that dark power he could have easily made a shield to protect himself from a light influence.
Also, i think such statement, from Nad being "worse" then revan or malak, seems to have so much credit to me like kreia saying that Tulak Hord was 10x times better then her time's jedis... She never knew him and lacked his knowledge, only heard about stories.
Also, "worse" it's not a term linked with force power or lightsaber skill and more with cruelty, for example.
About Sadow, well, Freedon found him out 600 years later... He may have also been a spirit so...

With all this, i think vader would win. ROTS Vader would beat Nad with his lightsaber mastery, Vader would probably beat him with his force powers.

i actually said that vader showed greater use of the force than bane collapsing the temple, not nadd