Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
But, people are not equal in terms of skill, Marxism ignores that which is why it fails. In a marxist country, even if you work harder than the average joe your wages remain the same. Hard work should be rewarded, in proportions to how hard you work.Also, there is no such thing as individual property rights in marxism.
Even in capitalism hard work is not always rewarded. I could work just as hard, even harder than a man and only earn 80% of what he earns. Is that fair? No. But with Socialism earnings are equal. In principle it's better than capitalism. It supports an equal environment...
Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
Even in capitalism hard work is not always rewarded. I could work just as hard, even harder than a man and only earn 80% of what he earns. Is that fair? No. But with Socialism earnings are equal. In principle it's better than capitalism. It supports an equal environment...
Would that be fair to you, would your moral still be the same?
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
But, people are not equal in terms of skill. Imagine if you will working your butt off, but earn the same wages as some lazy bum who puts less than half as you do in the working enviorment.Would that be fair to you, would your moral still be the same?
I suppose not... 😠 I've been beaten... -explodes into dust- I still believe in Utopia...
Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
I like socialism, or Marxism.There's virtually no poverty and everyone is literaly equal. There's no peer pressure because everyone has the same things... in other words... no envy...
not true imho. if you're working alot harder to earn that same amount as someone else is, you will likely be envious.
the heart of the issue imho is obnoxiously out-of-proportion wealth....billionares.
i have no problem with doctors making much more money than me. they work much harder to get where they are, their jobs are far more difficult, they are entitled.
i do however believe that the fatal flaw of capitalism is its nature to merge/overgrow/monopolise and for a tiny minority to hold more wealth than tha majority combined.
not trying to make it black/white. i know this is not easily solved, but i believe firmly that the way to preserve healthy commerce is to knock down/split up the bloated giants.
Originally posted by Schecter
not true imho. if you're working alot harder to earn that same amount as someone else is, you will likely be envious.the heart of the issue imho is obnoxiously out-of-proportion wealth....billionares.
i have no problem with doctors making much more money than me. they work much harder to get where they are, their jobs are far more difficult, they are entitled.i do however believe that the fatal flaw of capitalism is its nature to merge/overgrow/monopolise and for a tiny minority to hold more wealth than tha majority combined.
not trying to make it black/white. i know this is not easily solved, but i believe firmly that the way to preserve healthy commerce is to knock down/split up the bloated giants.
I guess no matter how much I fight, perfection cannot be attained. I can dream though, can't I? The always painted a light blue. Smiling faces, free from care and anxieties. One religion, one race, one family. I guess that does sound too much like a far off and distant idea, millions of years from realization. Couldn't you picture it though? Children playing, laughing, frolicking? Beautiful... I can almost envision it...
i think true utopia involves no religion, race, or isolation of any kind. be it individual, family, community, or country. of course we're not willing to give up our sense of "mine/ours". its impossible, barring significant evolving of our ideals and collective conscience....i hope that came out right
Originally posted by Schecter
i think true utopia involves no religion, race, or isolation of any kind. be it individual, family, community, or country. of course we're not willing to give up our sense of "mine/ours". its impossible, barring significant evolving of our ideals and collective conscience....i hope that came out right
Be at least a little optimistic. What if it were plausible? Would you enjoy it or sit around pointing out every flaw you could (and wouldn't) find?
Re: :Utopia:
Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
Could a perfect and grand world ever exist? One containing no violence, man-slaughter, indecency, or otherwise imperfections. How could a golden and beautiful Utopian society ever exist? What measures would have to be reached? Would the outcome be attained through Supernatural means?
No, there need be no supernatural means, nor will there be. This world will be what we make of it.
To answer the question, yes...utopia is possible. But no one wants to go through what it would take to achieve it.
If you could leave minor dissent out the of the picture (there is always someone who does not agree and murderers,etc, though many of htem can be prevented) a utopian...or as close as we will come to it, world, might be possible. It would look more like a unified United States of the globe, and would need one common beleif system (not religious faith)-like the samurai code without the killing part. Its worked in small-scale societies to an extent, therefore, HYPOTHETICALLY it could work on a large basis. It would need some very major, important, unifiying moment though to spurr it.
Re: :Utopia:
Originally posted by AshestoashesjcIf everybody would just smoke weed the world would be such a beautiful place...
Could a perfect and grand world ever exist? One containing no violence, man-slaughter, indecency, or otherwise imperfections. How could a golden and beautiful Utopian society ever exist? What measures would have to be reached? Would the outcome be attained through Supernatural means?This is not a thread to spout endless Chrisitian theories on Heaven being this sight worthy, flawless world...
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
If you could leave minor dissent out the of the picture (there is always someone who does not agree and murderers,etc, though many of htem can be prevented) a utopian...or as close as we will come to it, world, might be possible. It would look more like a unified United States of the globe, and would need one common beleif system (not religious faith)-like the samurai code without the killing part. Its worked in small-scale societies to an extent, therefore, HYPOTHETICALLY it could work on a large basis. It would need some very major, important, unifiying moment though to spurr it.
sounds like any beginning of a fascist dictatorship.
leave minor dissent out of the picture? utopia has no minor decent because its perfect. to force people out is not very well perfect in any way. united states unified? major unifying moment? these are all delusions which are the wet dreams of dictators seeking power.
Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
I like socialism, or Marxism.There's virtually no poverty and everyone is literaly equal. There's no peer pressure because everyone has the same things... in other words... no envy...
Marxism is actually communism - socialism is one step after capitalism, and a step before communism.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
But, people are not equal in terms of skill, Marxism ignores that which is why it fails. In a marxist country, even if you work harder than the average joe your wages remain the same. Hard work should be rewarded, in proportions to how hard you work.Also, there is no such thing as individual property rights in marxism.
You are confused about communism. Marx states that there will be no wages in communism. It is an exchange of labor, from one to another.
Money is redundant, in communism, thus, you don't do something because you want to earn more, or because you want status, you do it for the good of everyone.
THAT is why it does not work.
If Communism is to work, it needs to happen on a global scale - ie, every single country in the world needs to be communist.
Marx said that it cannot happen anyway, not until the world has gone through capitalism completely, then through socialism, and then reaching communism as a final triumph.
Hence Stalin's 5 year plan.