Jaime Braddock vs White Phoenix

Originally posted by LordKaos
The crystal like object is the holempathic crystal left to Rachel by Jean (Phoenix)

when the chaos wave hit the Xmen,

"When the Chaos Wave hit the X-Men?"

Where did this take place?

First time X-Men are introduced to HOM is in #462,

and Jean never appears there.

Originally posted by LordKaos
Betsy and Rachel (using Phoenix imagery) linked their tk to anchor themselves and then next thing that happened is they were pulled into the WHR,

Yea,

that was Jamie that teleported them without the need to Warp the WHR.

Originally posted by LordKaos
they summoned images of themselves, then they were able to see Brian in the altered reality, Jamie appeared and pulled strings using the holempathic crystal to pull them back to 616 earth,

I don't think so.

Jamie never needed that Crystal to pull then back anywhere,

where is this stated that he needed the Crystal?

Where is it stated that Jamie has anythin to do with that Crystal?

Jamie Warped the WHR just like the scans clearly show, period.

Originally posted by LordKaos
where his sister who he protected from all alteration was altered. When Jamie came back after all that it was stated by nightcrawler that his warps were global and his sister said he should not even have the power he had when the First Fallen appeared.

On Panel Jamie created that Alternate Reality where he made ALL the Stars in that Universe change.

When Kitty tried to return to that Reality,

there was NO Reality to return to. 😬

Originally posted by LordKaos
You said he warped her room like childs play, into what?

Already told you he morphed the Reality there (a connected Void)

Jamie transformed the scene by nonchalantly pulling its strings,
then he flushed that Reality into the Crystal,
for whatever insane purpose.

Originally posted by LordKaos
nothing because he did not warp it, especially into the crystal that was already on Rachels neck, left to her by her mother, the Phoenix who imprinted the crystal even though she had no idea Rachel had returned from the timestream. You disagree, me too! So now what?

The Crystal had nothing to do with Jamie.

All the relevant pages from the issue are right above.

When you present proof of a connection between Jamie and the Crystal,

we'll continue.

Otherwise,

Jamie flushed the WHR into the Crystal "like child's play" (for fun)

Originally posted by LordKaos
?????? that's what I said, stars fade by trying to remove her! she applies no power to that, she is their sustenance, jamie would have to apply power to do this,

Phoenix can't make Stars fade without applying power either.

Phoenix was getting KILLED, that's why the Stars were fading.

Btw. Jamie turned ALL the Stars in the Universe into snowflakes.

And still the Universe was able to sustain itself, it did not become a Void,

Why?

Because of Jamie ofcourse. 🙂

Originally posted by LordKaos
Phoenix will do this if you TRY (he didn't and couldn't) to remove her from her chosen form.

Actually Galactus himself decided to release Phoenix from her near death experience,

he was talked out of KILLING Phoenix by Roma, Death and the Watcher,

because of the "Eternal Pattern"

(Phoenix's job to Spark the Big Bangs of Universes awaiting their birth)

Originally posted by Creshosk
The Phoenix side's evidence and claims match.

Like bringing out the facts about the Mkraan Crystal from X-Men Comics,
which are completely unrelated to the subject at hand?

What does the Mkraan Crystal have to do with Jamie?

Absolutely nothing.

What does the architecture of the Mkraan Crystal in and out have to do with
Reality Warping and Jamie?

Absolutely Nothing.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
So after all that waffle and the massive personal attack detraction, you still have no on panel reference or depiction of Jamie Braddock creating a universe.

Your only argument is that because Jamie Braddock turned some stars within his reality warp into snowflakes then that means he created that entire universe.

Supposition. Your point isnt stated or depicted anywhere on panel. You've seen Jamie mess around with some stars, you've made some crazy assumptions and now youre posting them here as if theyre fact.

Within a reality warp, the laws of [B]SPACE and time need not apply. They are what the reality warper determines. Outside of a reality warp where a warpers influence does not extend and the laws of space/time are still in place, the warped area could be the size of a telephone box. Inside that reality warp the space could be limitless, defined only by the warpers imagination.

Observe.

The outside of the M'kraan crystal where the laws of space/time apply:

Notice the relative size of the people

Inside the crystal where space/time doesnt apply:

An endless city

As far as was illustrated on panel Jamie created a city size warp within an alternate reality and within that alternate reality he created an avatar of himself to fight Excalibur.

Within his city sized warp, space and time were what Jamie made them. In his warp he turned stars into snowflakes and he turned off sound. Impressive, outside of that warp none of that happened.

When Jamie was taken away from his alternate reality games, what disappeared, the universe? the planet?

Nope. Just the city Excalibur were being attacked in and the avatar Jamie created.

And yet you would credibly try and tell us Jamie created that universe?[/B]

hum

What does any of this have to do with Jamie Braddock?

What does any of this have to do with Excalibur?

What does any of this have to do with Reality Warping?

What does any of this have to do with Excalibur #18 and 19?

dontgetit

What do I care how the Mkraan Crystal works and all this unrelated jazz.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with Jamie, Excalibur, Reality Warping,

or ANYTHING at ALL with Jamie's Feat ... NOTHING!!!

Come on duke what game is this?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wheres your proof?

Already posted it many times,

Marvel itself agrees with Me on the HOM debate. 🙂

Working on solidifying this Jamie comedy too.

Originally posted by Mr Master

where is this stated that he needed the Crystal?

Where is it stated that Jamie has anythin to do with that Crystal?

Jamie Warped the WHR just like I the scans clearly show, period.

On Panel Jamie created that Alternate Reality where he made ALL the Stars in that Universe change.

"Where is it stated that Jamie created the Universe?"

Originally posted by Mr Master
When you present proof of a connection between Jamie and the Crystal,

we'll continue.

Otherwise,

Jamie flushed the WHR into the Crystal "like child's play" (for fun)

Looks like he made a neat special effect for another teleportation is all. Doesn't really look "warped". 😆

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix can't make Stars fade without applying power either.

Phoenix was getting KILLED, that's why the Stars were fading.

Btw. Jamie turned ALL the Stars in the Universe into snowflakes.

And still the Universe was able to sustain itself, it did not become a Void,

Why?

Because of Jamie ofcourse. 🙂

All you've got its speculation.

Where does it say he needed the crystal? I said he used the crystal, he did not create that crystal Rachel had it in her hand when they were in that white space she touched it and figured where they were before he appeared she got that crystal from her mother. You still have yet to explain to me why a reality warper who can create universes and "warp" the WHR can't protect his sister from something he specifically tried to keep from affecting her. You presented the obvious connection regarding the crystal, he pulled strings that pulled them from the WHR through the crystal into the altered 616 earth. if you want to argue Wandas warp is stronger than his, you only prove his inferiority since the WHR was unaffected by the Chaos wave. The Chaos wave the xmen thought somebody deployed a nuke everything was being rewritten except Betsy and Rachel who were in the WHR, only after they left were they affected.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Let's see how you like your own medicine.

"Where is it stated that Jamie created the Universe?"

This has nothing to do with my request.

He says Jamie needed the Crystal,

so where is that stated?

"Where is it stated Jamie created that Universe?"

Dazzler's power comes from Sound waves that permeate through the Universe,

Jamie shuts off all the Sound in that Reality:

Here Jamie makes Havok's own nuclear plasma blast explode the Moon

in Space,

after blasting a hole straight through him:

Here Jamie actually turns all the STARS in this Universe into snowflakes apparently:

(in order to turn off Havok's power which came from Stellar Energy at the time)

"No more Stars ... means No more Steller Energy"

Oh yes, there's more.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Oh so you demand proof without needing to offer your own conclusive? Just your speculations are good enough?

Your opinion.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Looks like he made a neat special effect for another teleportation is all.

Doesn't really look "warped".

I disagree,

and a laughing smilie doesn't help the claim.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Oh please, accprding to this logic Galactus created the universe he was in when he was causing the stars to fade.

dontgetit

Originally posted by Creshosk
Removing things that feed on the universal life force does not indicate the universe was using Jamie to fuel it.

You take away the Stars of a Universe,

and said Universe becomes a Void.

Already seen On Panel during Excalibur #25

Originally posted by Creshosk
All you've got its speculation.

Your opinion.

Here Kitty Pride is able to jump from the Universe Earth-616 to Jamie's Alternate Reality,

and back to 616,

she can do this using Widget's Dimensional Gate:

When 616Jamie goes to sleep, not only does his counterpart vanish,
but so too do the Dirty Angels and the City around them.

This certainly would imply that 616 Jamie Created all of them.

Next page we learn,

Widget's Dimensional Gate that leads to this Alternate Reality from 616,

has NO Alternate Reality to go to: hm

"Widget's Dimensional Gate didn't work, I'm trapped on Earth"

Don't tell me ...

that whole Universe is cut off from the Omniverse because Jamie's City disappeared. 😆

Originally posted by LordKaos
Where does it say he needed the crystal? I said he used the crystal,

I never saw Jamie use the Crystal,

except to flush the WHR into it.

Originally posted by LordKaos
he did not create that crystal Rachel had it in her hand when they were in that white space she touched it and figured where they were before he appeared she got that crystal from her mother.

I agree with this.

Originally posted by LordKaos
You still have yet to explain to me why a reality warper who can create universes and "warp" the WHR can't protect his sister from something he specifically tried to keep from affecting her.

That was the Chaos Wave that hit them, not the Warping of the 616 Universe.

Wanda's Chaos Wave merged UniverseS into nothingness.

Wanda's Warp of the 616 Universe only altered it to her wishes.

Originally posted by LordKaos
You presented the obvious connection regarding the crystal, he pulled strings that pulled them from the WHR through the crystal into the altered 616 earth.

I saw the WHR getting flushed,

not just them.

Originally posted by LordKaos
if you want to argue Wandas warp is stronger than his, you only prove his inferiority since the WHR was unaffected by the Chaos wave.

Just cause the Chaos Wave hadn't reached the WHR,
doesn't mean it would have remained that way.

In fact,

Roma stated that EVerything would go,

and perhaps the Ascention itself: (TOOA/God?) shrug

"If the breach is not sealed, the Chaos Wave will continue to expand,

perhaps to the ASCENTION itself"

Originally posted by LordKaos
The Chaos wave the xmen thought somebody deployed a nuke everything was being rewritten except Betsy and Rachel who were in the WHR, only after they left were they affected.

Everything was being erased actually, but I agree with this.

Psylocke was warped, possessed and telepathically linked, why could the creator of universes not keep this from happening like he intended to do? Rachel used her power and was able to see and show the real reality behind what Psylocke thought were her memories. And Roma is no more certain about the scope of the chaos wave then anybody thus the word prehaps. She also used the word sidereal which has to do with stars and constellation so your point being Roma can sometimes not understand what she protects fully

Originally posted by Mr Master
This has nothing to do with my request.

He says Jamie needed the Crystal,

so where is that stated?

"Where is it stated Jamie created that Universe?"

Dazzler's power comes from Sound waves that permeate through the Universe,

[B]Jamie shuts off all the Sound in that Reality:

Here Jamie makes Havok's own nuclear plasma blast explode the Moon

in Space,

after blasting a hole straight through him:

Here Jamie actually turns all the STARS in this Universe into snowflakes apparently:

(in order to turn off Havok's power which came from Stellar Energy at the time)

"No more Stars ... means No more Steller Energy"

Oh yes, there's more.[/b]

Oh snap, you didn't prove he made that reality, just that he could manipulate it. durfist

So where does it say that he created it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your opinion.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree,

Speculation of equal merit to your claims: Could be he just teleported them out and that crystal is what the M'kraan crystal looks like after Wanda warped the 616 reality.

Originally posted by Mr Master
and a laughing smilie doesn't help the claim.

Originally posted by Mr Master
dontgetit

Originally posted by Mr Master
You take away the Stars of a Universe,

and said Universe becomes a Void.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Already seen On Panel during Excalibur #25

Your opinion.

Wanda warped the 616 universe, does that mean she initially created it?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Oh wow you proved he's a reailty manipulator.

Oh snap, you didn't prove he made that reality, just that he could manipulate it.

So where does it say that he created it.

Here Kitty Pride is able to jump from the Universe Earth-616 to Jamie's Alternate Reality,

and back to 616,

she can do this using Widget's Dimensional Gate:

When 616Jamie goes to sleep, not only does his counterpart vanish,
but so too do the Dirty Angels and the City around them.

This certainly would imply that 616 Jamie Created all of them.

Next page we learn,

Widget's Dimensional Gate that leads to this Alternate Reality from 616,

has NO Alternate Reality to go to: hm

"Widget's Dimensional Gate didn't work, I'm trapped on Earth"

So again ...

that whole Universe is cut off from the Omniverse because Jamie's City disappeared? hm

If he didn't create it,

why did it all disappear when 616 Jamie fell to sleep?

Why was that Dimension inaccessible after Jamie fell to sleep?

Originally posted by Creshosk
No seriously, that's your argument to me pointing out you have nothing but speculation,

And?

Originally posted by Creshosk
especially after that pathetic attempt to prove he made the reality rather than simply manipulated it?

Have you even read these issues, to be calling my presentation "pathetic?"

It's funny how your ignoring the fact that everything disappeared after Jamie fell asleep.

I won't call you "pathetic" because of it though. 🙂

Originally posted by Creshosk
So prove it. You claim he warped it. But if he teleported them IN, then what's to say that he didn't just teleport them OUT.

He never Warped the Reality within the WHR to teleport them in,

why would he have to do it to teleport them out?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Speculation of equal merit to your claims: Could be he just teleported them out and that crystal is what the M'kraan crystal looks like after Wanda warped the 616 reality.

This actually sounds like a sound theory.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well according to above, Jamie made the stars dissappear, therefore he created that reality. so since its Galactus's actions that are causing the stars to disappear, then obviously he created the universe he was in to. Flawless logic.

Only Jamie actually Warped the Stars with his own power,

while Galactus inadvertently was making the Stars turn off by erasing the Phoenix Force from existence.

Anyhow,

that's not what makes Jamie creating that Alternate Reality conclusive,

it's the Fact that,

when Kitty tried to return to it,

it was gone.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Not really. All you have is speculation, you haven't proved a thing.

Your opinion.

I'm still wondering what you're trying to prove.

Cause you haven't mentioned the Phoenix, you're only trying in vain to downplay Jamie's feat.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I ask for proof of it saying that he created the universe,

and you do your usual misinterpritation dance and give me... reality warping feats.

Then you're not paying attention.

Which makes this debate pointless.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Wanda warped the 616 universe, does that mean she initially created it?

Inconsequential ...

This Jamie's official Bio from the Officially Marvel sposored site:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/braddockj.htm#counterpart

"As Jamie fell asleep, the one fighting Excalibur,

as well as MUCH of his Reality,

vanished into nothingness"

Apparently 616 Jamie Created MUCH of that Alternate Reality.

So I was mostly Right.

I'm not surprised, Kitty couldn't return to that Reality,
that was sufficient On Panel proof for un-biased eyes. 🙂

Jamie Created MUCH of that Universe,

but ... Jamie had Total Control of that Universe as we saw in the scans.

***

Heck,

they even say 616 Jamie might've Created the Nth Man, Alfie O'Meagan,

and his entire Universe as well.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Here Kitty Pride is able to jump from the Universe Earth-616 to Jamie's Alternate Reality,

and back to 616,

she can do this using [B]Widget's Dimensional Gate:

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/2899/jam1ig9.th.jpg

When 616Jamie goes to sleep, not only does his counterpart vanish,
but so too do the Dirty Angels and the City around them.

This certainly would imply that 616 Jamie Created all of them.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5356/jam2dz8.th.jpg

Next page we learn,

Widget's Dimensional Gate that leads to this Alternate Reality from 616, [/b]

Originally posted by Mr Master
[B]has NO Alternate Reality to go to: hm[/b]

Originally posted by Mr Master

"[B]Widget's Dimensional Gate didn't work, I'm trapped on Earth"[/b]

Originally posted by Mr Master
So again ...

that whole Universe is cut off from the Omniverse because Jamie's City disappeared? hm

If he didn't create it,

why did it all disappear when 616 Jamie fell to sleep?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Why was that Dimension inaccessible after Jamie fell to sleep?

Originally posted by Mr Master
And?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Have you even read these issues, to be calling my presentation "pathetic?"

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's funny how your ignoring the fact that everything disappeared after Jamie fell asleep.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I won't call you "pathetic" because of it though. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
He never Warped the Reality within the WHR to teleport them in,

why would he have to do it to teleport them out?

😱 GOOD QUESTION! 😱

Originally posted by Mr Master
This actually sounds like a sound theory.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Only Jamie actually Warped the Stars with his own power,

while Galactus inadvertently was making the Stars turn off by erasing the Phoenix Force from existence.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Anyhow,

that's not what makes Jamie creating that Alternate Reality conclusive,

it's the Fact that,

when Kitty tried to return to it,

it was gone.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your opinion.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm still wondering what you're trying to prove.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cause you haven't mentioned the Phoenix, you're only trying in vain to downplay Jamie's feat.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Then you're not paying attention.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Which makes this debate pointless.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Inconsequential ...

Jamie manipulated that Universe therefore he created it initially.
Wanda Manipulated 616 therefore she created it initially

Notice the double standard your have in your logic... or the big gapping holes?

😱

OWNED 😂

Emmie, you asked what the M'kraan crystal has to do with Jamies warps, well within a reality warp, just like within within the M'kraan crystal, the laws of reality i.e time and space dont hold sway, therefore i illustrated how outside the influence of the warp, within reality, the warp may cover an area the size of a bus, however step inside reality where the laws of reality are non existent or warped and the space could be endless. 🙂

Jamie turning stars to snowflakes WITHIN his reality warp, does NOT mean that Jamie therefore created that universe. 🤨

Jamie shutting off sound WITHIN his reality warp, does NOT mean that he shut off sound in the universe 🤨

What disappeared when Jamie stopped applying his power to this alternate reality, the universe? the planet? a continent? Nope. ❌

The city they were fighting in. The city Jamie created along with an avatar to mess around with Excalibur within.

That will be all. 🙂

Jamie Braddock
Phoenix jobbs too much to retain credibility in the field

Originally posted by don't shiv
Jamie Braddock
Phoenix jobbs too much to retain credibility in the field

Jamie Braddock was terrified of the First Fallen who has no on panel feats to rival the Phoenix.

Aside from Mr Masters speculation, Jamie Braddock has no on panel feats to put him above a skyfather let alone the White Phoenix. 😬

Lets see if we actually get scans STATING that Jamie created that alternate universe, instead of just the city, on the plenet, within that alternate universe as clearly illustrated by the fact that that is exactly what disappearred when Jamie stopped applying his power in that reality. 😬

Only time will tell 😖hifty: 🙂

Originally posted by Creshosk
If that was true then I wouldn't have noticed you're just speculating and

would have swallowed your bull.

This debate is pointless because you're not bringing facts, just speculation.

The rest is inconsequential with a bunch of sarcasm and irrelevance.

bored

Ahhh ... bottomline:

This Jamie's official Bio from the Officially Marvel sposored site:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/braddockj.htm#counterpart

"As Jamie fell asleep, the one fighting Excalibur,

as well as MUCH of his Reality,

vanished into nothingness"

EVIDENTLY 616 Jamie Created MUCH of that Alternate Reality.

So I was mostly Right.

I'm not surprised, Kitty couldn't return to that Reality,
that was sufficient On Panel proof for un-biased eyes. 🙂

Jamie Created MUCH of that Universe,

but ... Jamie had Total Control of that Universe as we saw in the scans.

yawn

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]OWNED [/B]

I just realized who that bootlicker is,

Oh yes, I know remember.

That explains the unprovoked hostility.

Oh well ... who cares. 😆