Originally posted by fangirl101
DD made grant rewrite the ending of the story. So we know for sure this is NOT what Grant had in mind.
Id like to think that this is the real reason, but the truth is Grant is definitely loosing his touch. He had the opportunity to construct a story that would be the equivalent of sky diving while on acid. however, this feels more like Sunday Lunch with your girlfriends family. D.D. can only hold so much responsibility.
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Id like to think that this is the real reason, but the truth is Grant is definitely loosing his touch. He had the opportunity to construct a story that would be the equivalent of sky diving while on acid. however, this feels more like Sunday Lunch with your girlfriends family. D.D. can only hold so much responsibility.
Skydiving on acid is a terrible, terrible idea.
Trust me on this.
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
OK I'm going to say it , I'm officially disappointed with the way Morison has "reinvigorated" Kirby's New Gods. The whole notion that we where finally going to see their awesome scary might hasn't bee realised. In fact evidence suggests that the New Gods more are like the parasitic aliens of Star-gates "Gods" rather than the hyper dimensional, ineffably powerful, counter intuitive deities that Morison claimed he was going to illustrate. I love how Seven Soldiers was set up. When ever one of the evil Gods used their divine powers, Shiloh Norman experienced it in limited human way. This coincides with the theme that divine power cannot be truly understood, therefore we experience it traditionally intuitive forms. All you "Know" is that, something is happening, although you cannot explain what. This was a supposedly a prominent theme of Kirby's vision, i.e the tech that the new Gods used was what we perceived as their divine power, in the same way Lightning bolts conveyed Zeus's. Ho3ver the only real use of this in Final crisis is the gun that can fire bullets through time. Every other "God" has been depicted as demonic spirit inhabiting a 3 Dimensional inferior body. Where the hell is all the enigmatic, badass omni technology that Morrison is usually so good at creating. I want my Deus ex machina's, I want to see Kirby's God illustrating their omni powerful abilities.
If you want that kind of impossible comics madness, check out Superman: Beyond. It, simultaneously, makes no logical sense, but has a perfect, and beautiful internal logic. Like a Carlos Castaneda book. And it's ****ing beautiful and brilliant.
Originally posted by Raoul
its insane. morrison sure loves his superman but you know he's intentionally trying to f*ck with people.i mean, even more so than usual...
great book though. after reading it, i was just sitting there thinking "damn..."
Seriously, when the one female monitor says that line about "But in the germ worlds... I found a greater story... one about a child rocketed from a dying planet..." I flipped out.
The concept of Superman (and the superhero) being a seal created by the fundamental reality in order to defend fiction from the "Overvoid" and nothingness?? Mandrakk, the primal vampire Monitor versus a Superman created by smashing "a hate crime and a selfless act" in the hands of a Quantum Superman, donning Armor made out of imagination!?? The LAST STAND OF LIMBO??? And all in glorious 3-D...Jesus.
Morrison does wank the **** out of Superman though. Same with Batman (outdrawing the Omega Sanction in order to kill the ultimate evil with a gun made of time!).
I remember reading an interview with him where he talked about how he was going through an extremely depressed, semi-suicidal phase in his life, where he basically said he told himself "Batman! Superman! Help me!" ...which is where the idea of superheroes being a bulwark against the worst impulses of humanity (Mageddon) seems to come from.
When you think about Morrison in that light, that he uses the motif of superheroes (and, thus, the imagination) as being a defense against the darkest parts of humanity, pretty much every superhero comic he's ever written starts to make perfect sense. I mean, that's what JLA, All-Star Superman, Batman, and Final Crisis are all about.
Sorry for that tangent, everyone. You just have to admit that when Morrison is good, he's pretty untouchable (not to say he doesn't have his bad moments).
Originally posted by tjcoadyI remember reading an interview with him where he talked about how he was going through an extremely depressed, semi-suicidal phase in his life, where he basically said he told himself "Batman! Superman! Help me!" ...which is where the idea of superheroes being a bulwark against the worst impulses of humanity (Mageddon) seems to come from.
When you think about Morrison in that light, that he uses the motif of superheroes (and, thus, the imagination) as being a defense against the darkest parts of humanity, pretty much every superhero comic he's ever written starts to make perfect sense. I mean, that's what JLA, All-Star Superman, Batman, and Final Crisis are all about.
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I think its concept that Morison uses far too often. The whole idea of prescribing fictional advice to deals with life's hardships is paradoxial and dangerous. On the one hand its similar to Nietzsche's Zarathusta, on the other, it treads dangerously close to the whole Christian ideology of "suffering". I.e. don't worry guys, shit happens but everything will be alright because Jesus will sort it out in the end. IMO, its a irrational justification of ignoring ones problems, similar to a smack head taking heroine. I might be overreacting here, but Morison maybe advocating a contemporary "opium for the masses".
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
I think its concept that Morison uses far too often. The whole idea of prescribing fictional advice to deals with life's hardships is paradoxial and dangerous. On the one hand its similar to Nietzsche's Zarathusta, on the other, it treads dangerously close to the whole Christian ideology of "suffering". I.e. don't worry guys, shit happens but everything will be alright because Jesus will sort it out in the end. IMO, its a irrational justification of ignoring ones problems, similar to a smack head taking heroine. I might be overreacting here, but Morison maybe advocating a contemporary "opium for the masses".
I disagree. He's prescribing a method for dealing with existential and relativistic fear and depression.
Can you really say that the entire concept of the imagination- every piece of music, every piece of architecture, every book, every painting, every law, every idea (and so on) is really irrational? He's saying "use creativity to figure out your problems." To quote Metron, "If your superheroes can't save you, then maybe you should think up something that can."
Human creativity and imagination is the basis of everything we do and accomplish, yet people rarely recognize their own capacity to solve their problems and rid themselves of doubts. Instead, people languish in fear and depression. He's not saying at all to "ignore problems," but instead to find new ways of dealing with them, rather than acting as if they have no solution.
Originally posted by tjcoady
I disagree. He's prescribing a method for dealing with existential and relativistic fear and depression.Can you really say that the entire concept of the imagination- every piece of music, every piece of architecture, every book, every painting, every law, every idea (and so on) is really irrational? He's saying "use creativity to figure out your problems." To quote Metron, "If your superheroes can't save you, then maybe you should think up something that can."
OK as these are existential problems, I'm in no position to provide Normative answers, but I existentially choose to believe that escapism is not the answer to suffering. I'm not equating creativity as irrational, I'm saying its irrational to use it as a means of dealing with "sartreain" anguish brought on by freedom and responsibility, hence life's hardships. Sure they are a helpful tool to help ease the pains of suffering, but advocating them as the solution is not going to solve anything. This is mainly why Nietzsche and Wagner fell out with each other. Wagner suggested this method of escapism for Justifying existence, where as Nietzsche takes on the Schopenhauer perspective; that suffering is an integral part of existing. Without it, we cannot learn and we won't strive to be better. I don't entirely agree with this, but I'm dead certain that the "escapist" medicine is NOT the solution.
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
OK as these are existential problems, I'm in no position to provide Normative answers, but I existentially choose to believe that escapism is not the answer to suffering. I'm not equating creativity as irrational, I'm saying its irrational to use it as a means of dealing with "sartreain" anguish brought on by freedom and responsibility, hence life's hardships. Sure they are a helpful tool to help ease the pains of suffering, but advocating them as the solution is not going to solve anything. This is mainly why Nietzsche and Wagner fell out with each other. Wagner suggested this method of escapism for Justifying existence, where as Nietzsche takes on the Schopenhauer perspective; that suffering is an integral part of existing. Without it, we cannot learn and we won't strive to be better. I don't entirely agree with this, but I'm dead certain that the "escapist" medicine is NOT the solution.
But that's entirely my point: it's clearly not an escapist solution. It's an eminently practical one.
If we're going to go all philosophical about this, the most obvious antecedent would be a pragmatist like William James. When you're confronted with a problem (such as, say, depression) the onus is on you to deal with that problem with a solution. Ideas are tools to solve to problems- for Grant Morrison, superheroes themselves were the idea that he came up with to solve his problem, ie, depression. He's not recommending that exact approach (HEY YOU HAVE CANCER! READ A COMIC!), but is instead saying that the burden is on the human race to figure out solutions to our problems, using the eminently human ability to come up with new ideas.
Our imagination is how we figure out how to craft these tools, whether that tool is chemotherapy, a hammer, or Batman.
And, taken to an extreme, that's what I think Superman: Beyond is about.
Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
I will definitely agree with this. The only one who come close is Frank Miller, which is why I always preferred DKR, to Watchmen.
Alan Moore for the crafting of a comic- you have to admit, something like Tom Strong or Promothea is pretty ****ing brilliantly put together in terms of its structure....
And Frank Miller for those panels that pull together everything and make comics reading just AWESOME for a second and you get to shout '**** YEAH!'- Daredevil putting the costume back on to fight Nuke, Batman silhouetted against the lightening or fighting Superman at the end-