Pre-retcon Beyonder vs Pre-Retcon Marvel Brother

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The so called "ownage" was the Brothers powers used against them,

if you will you could say TOAA's/Presence's own power used against him.

Actually this is incorrect.

This is the way it happened On Panel.

ON PANEL,

LT and Spectre,

completely Remaking the Totality of the PRE-Retcon Brothers:

"The Brothers are MERGING Realities, combining Universes"

(Actually we find out in the Next Issue,

that the Living Tribunal and Spectre were the ones that MERGED the TWO Universes BY FORCE!)

When LT and Spectre MERGED the TWO Universes/Brothers, (by Force)

the Brothers became ONE Universe called the Amalgam Universe

(basically a Mixture of BOTH)

"He had thought the MERGING was the DOING of the Brothers, it was NOT"

"because of the War, ONE of the Universes faced being hurled INTO OBLIVION"

"And the Cosmic Guardians ... the Living Tribunal and Spectre,

are HOLDING it ALL TOGETHER" (by Force)

"Their effort Created a Amalgam Universe ... the Brother aren't Happy about it"

Like I said,

the LT and Spectre MERGED the Brothers on thier own, with their own power:

"He was wrong. The old Guradian knows now he was wrong"

"He had thought the merging was the doing of the Brothers,

it was NOT"

"The Living Tribunal & the Spectre are holding it all together."

"When it looked like the Universes would be Obliterated,
then the BUM helped me Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN"

"Someplace where NO Aspect of the Brothers existed"

When DID it LOOK like the Universes would be Obliterated?

So we can figure out whether it was just singular Universes or the Brothers themselves.

This is the moment,

"When it looked like the Universes would be Obliterated,
then the BUM helped me Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN"

I think we can agree "The Universes" were the Brothers ey?

Where is this place "where NO Aspect of the Brothers exists?"

And there is the "BUM, that helped him Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN,

when the Universes were about to be Obliterated.

When did this happen?

When the Brothers were MERGED by LT & Spectre, it's all clear On Panel. 🙂

The Living Tribunal and Spectre nearly Obliterated the Brothers:

"When it looked like the Universes would be Obliterated"

"We're still here indicates our Universes coexisting rather than smashed together"

LT and Spectre even say,

The Universes are momentarily safe"

"It is nothing short of miraculous they exist at all"

Catch LT and Spectre trying to do this to TOAA or the Presence 😆

Who ever these Brothers were supposed to be, they sure weren't "Supreme." 😬

Access took the power from aspects of the Brothers and gave it to the Living Tribunal and Spectre.

The universe inbetween which were no aspect of the Brothers existed was the Amalgam Universe.
- As the Red was the supreme being and everything in Marvel.
And the Blue supreme in DC.

To show that neither company have full control over the Amalgam comic's.

It wasent only the cosmic guardian's power.

The Universes are momentarily safe"

"It is nothing short of miraculous they exist at all"

The separation of the Brothers were supose to unleash forces tearing all creation asunder, but since Access grated them access to a portion of the Brothers' power the creation managed to stay intact.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU

Access took the power from aspects of the Brothers and gave it to the Living Tribunal and Spectre.

The universe inbetween which were no aspect of the Brothers existed was the Amalgam Universe.
- As the Red was the supreme being and everything in Marvel.
And the Blue supreme in DC.

To show that neither company have full control over the Amalgam comic's.

It wasent only the cosmic guardian's power.

That was to separate the Brothers AFTER they were MERGED by the LT and Spectre.

I already stated that.

"He was wrong. The old Guradian knows now he was wrong"

"He had thought the merging was the doing of the Brothers,

it was NOT"

"The Living Tribunal & the Spectre are holding it all together."

I think we can agree "The Universes" were the Brothers ey?

The Brothers' power exteends far beyond only the universes.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
You've misunderstood.

The separation of the Brothers were supose to unleash forces tearing all creation asunder, but since Access grated them access to a portion of the Brothers' power the creation managed to stay intact.

I disagree.

Access helped the LT and Spectre separate the Brothers

because the merger was going to obliterate the Brothers:

"When it looked like the Universes would be Obliterated,
then the BUM helped me Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN"

"Someplace where NO Aspect of the Brothers existed"

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Actually the Brothers finaly destroyed everything ... Yet they lived on and recreated everything due to the heroicness of Batman can Cap.
So the universes were destroyed and the Brothers lived on to recreate them.

What are you talking about?

I studied this arc thoroughly,

the Brothers were never destroyed in the end,

the Brothers clashed and then decided to stop fighting because of whatever cheesy reason.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Brothers' power exteends far beyond only the universes.

Absolutely,

they're a Megaverse each, in Marvel now.

The bum, Access future self was the one that helped the LT and Sepc to merge them.
And never was it said that the Brothers struggled or was against it, they were caught up in their own battle and had other things to think about.

But if the Brothers were as weak as you say, this would never had happen.

- Yes Spec and Trib like flies that are beneath the Brothers notecing ... So much for their power ...

Originally posted by Mr Master
What are you talking about?

I studied this arc thoroughly,

the Brothers were never destroyed in the end,

the Brothers clashed and then decided to stop fighting because of whatever cheesy reason.

End of all creation ... (Universes) that didn't mean the Brothers' died.

They were far beyond their creations MU and DCU.

It was later however restored, by the Brothers of course.

Absolutely,

they're a Megaverse each, in Marvel now.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The bum, Access future self was the one that helped the LT and Sepc to merge them.

So basically you're going to keep claiming this,

even though On Panel the LT and Spectre merged them on their own?

(this will cause circles)

"He was wrong. The old Guradian knows now he was wrong"

"He had thought the merging was the doing of the Brothers,

it was NOT"

"The Living Tribunal & the Spectre are holding it all together."

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
And never was it said that the Brothers struggled or was against it, they were caught up in their own battle and had other things to think about.

That's not mentioned anywhere on panel,

I think your speculating as to what was going on in the Brothers' mind.

They were Merged,

then we find out who merged them,

it was Spectre and the LT, period.

This merger nearly obliterated the Brothers,

it's as simple as that.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But if the Brothers were as weak as you say, this would never had happen.

- Yes Spec and Trib like flies that are beneath the Brothers notecing ... So much for their power ...

I never said the Brothers were weak.

Did you see me say that? no2

But the Brothers were OWNED by the LT and Spectre,

and the Brothers were nearly obliterated by the LT and Spectre.

This is a fact, that can't be debated.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree.

Access helped the LT and Spectre separate the Brothers

because the merger was going to obliterate the Brothers:

"When it looked like [B]the Universes would be Obliterated,
then the BUM helped me Jump someplace IN-BETWEEN"

"Someplace where NO Aspect of the Brothers existed" [/B]

The bum, is his future self.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU

End of all creation ... (Universes) that didn't mean the Brothers' died.

They were far beyond their creations MU and DCU.

It was later however restored, by the Brothers of course.

No where in that scan does it say "end of all creation"

Or end of anything.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
You know that with the universes they refere to DCU and MU, all of DC and Marvel ...

Yes I know that,

the LT and Spectre nearly obliterated them both.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Access have the power to enter different timelines and create dimensional ports from to all universes and realities in all time.

The bum, is his future self.

What does that have to do with the fact that Access,

NEVER helped the LT and Spectre merge the Brothers?

The LT and Spectre MERGED the Brothers on their own,

the LT and Spectre nearly obliterated both Brothers on panel.

pre-retcon Brothers for the win.

(here we go again)

By the way charlemagne9746 why couldn't you go back and read the Ultimator vs Beyonder ore brothers ore something like that the result that you will get from this thread will be exactly the same.

My and Thanos_THOTU believing the Brothers would win and Mr Master Saying that they wouldn't win. End of story.

Originally posted by Utrigita
pre-retcon Brothers for the win.

(here we go again)

By the way charlemagne9746 why couldn't you go back and read the Ultimator vs Beyonder ore brothers ore something like that the result that you will get from this thread will be exactly the same.

My and Thanos_THOTU believing the Brothers would win and Mr Master Saying that they wouldn't win. End of story.

I can't get the search to work on my end...so, I knew nothing about the other thread....but, hey...it's a good debate anyway..lol.

Mr. Master...on your Marvel cosmic heirarchy...if you were to place PRE-Retcon Marvel....where would he be on your list. I know you have pre-retcon Beyonder at number 2. So, would you place him at three, but I think you have the Tribunal at number 3.

so, 2.5..lol

One more scan, you said that just because the universe would be destroyed when they were to separate you said the Brothers would die ... Wrong.

"Once before they came together in battle, unleashing forces that ENDED and BEGAN ALL CREATION over again."

So basicly all creation was destroyed yet they lived on ...

They were also everything, the begining, the end etc.

In other words they were TOAA/Presence, or they were above them.
As the released powers never witnessed before.

Easiley rank 0 in the hierarchy.

the brothers were just some dumb thing added by some author who wanted the last say on "the most powerful character." the brothers are below "God." While the brothers seem relatively omnipotent they are not God. God is omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence. The One Above All is God in Marvel and the Prescense is God in DC. Since at the time DC and Marvel didn't think of doing stupid crossovers, basically while acknowledging The One Above All, DC doesn't exist since. When acknowldeging the Presence, Marvel doesn't exist. If you want to acknowledge both at the same time then they would have to be the same identity since there is only one omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence God.

For those who don't know what omniprescence means, it means the ability to be present anywhere at any time. If you read above, they found a place where the brothers didn't exist. DA DING! below God.
TOAA/Presence=God and when acknowledging both they have to be the same identity. comic book writers aren't smart enough to make logical sense of many things (for example LT having a humanlike shape- they wouldn't be able to draw what the LT looked like if it were really that powerful).
anyways this message is hella long. enough said