Really, I find that Urizen/Kali has such a misguided view of Christianity and is so set in his prejudices that he will never get over them. I have explained on numerous occasions why Christians don't follow the rules and regulations of the Old Testament, but he continually uses that as anti-Christian ammunition.
Re: So We All Deserve to Suffer, huh ?
Originally posted by Goddess KaliThen there are those Christians, many Catholic, many Protestant, who escape that traditional Puritan-like beleif, and beleive that we all have God within us, and that we have incredible power, and that we can make a difference in this world, and what we do DOES matter here and now.
Originally posted by Goddess KaliUniversalist Christians, in fact, beleive we are all going to Heaven. A big stretch from traditional Christian thought. They believe in a God whose Love is non-judgemental, non-biased, not narrow - but wide. Absolute and truly unconditional, Ever-Forgiving, All-Loving, a God who only embraces our good, and understands our bad. A God who loves us for everything we are.
As much as I would like everyone to be saved, it's not going to work that way.
Originally posted by Goddess KaliDo some of you who beleive in God truly WANT people to suffer? Do you see suffering or punishment as an absolute necessity, hoping your deity will render out what you can't upon others ?
Yes! Yes! Yes!
We do need to suffer, it's a part of life.
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
That's just unprogressive...why embrace suffering ? Why focus on it, even worse, why try to utilize it ?
Originally posted by Goddess KaliYou Tell Me, because I will never understand that....
Because like most people you seem to want easy answers, but that's not how life works.
Re: Re: Re: Re: So We All Deserve to Suffer, huh ?
Originally posted by FeceMan
Very often. I don't deny my own sin.
You missed my point. What a sin is to you, is not a sin to someone else. They will claim that you are sinning against god and you will claim they are sinning against god, and then people die.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Only to a nonbeliever.
There is no hidden truth,
Originally posted by FeceMan
Fail. Even if one isn't a Christian, we're approaching the subject from a Christian viewpoint.
What? What does that have to do with anything?
Originally posted by FeceMan
No other book is the Word of God.
What about the Koran? Just as many people believe that book is the word of god as believe the bible is the word of god. The truth is, they are only the word of man.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Continue to think so.
Continue to suffer then.
Originally posted by FeceMan
As the Bible has been written.
Also as the Koran was written.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Suffering in this life, perhaps.
People in Heaven will suffer when they see people in hell.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Really, I find that Urizen/Kali has such a misguided view of Christianity and is so set in his prejudices that he will never get over them. I have explained on numerous occasions why Christians don't follow the rules and regulations of the Old Testament, but he continually uses that as anti-Christian ammunition.
misguided, according to YOUR view of christianity which can also be said, to be misguided itself. and didnt jesus say, he didnt come to destroy the laws{of old}.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Really, I find that Urizen/Kali has such a misguided view of Christianity and is so set in his prejudices that he will never get over them. I have explained on numerous occasions why Christians don't follow the rules and regulations of the Old Testament, but he continually uses that as anti-Christian ammunition.
Yep, similair to many Anti-Christian ammunnition.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
misguided, according to YOUR view of christianity which can also be said, to be misguided itself. and didnt jesus say, he didnt come to destroy the laws{of old}.
Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
1. Christ is making fun of the Pharisees. They are hypocritical and self-righteous, not righteous.
2. Christ is saying that it is impossible to enter the kingdom of heaven because we've all broken commandments of the Law.
However, Christ's crucifixion is what has made us righteous enough to enter heaven.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Enough with the relativism please. Obviously, he's interperting it through a certain moral guideline. Last I check that's how morals work and the world work.
it would be so much easier if people admitted to that. to other people, or themselves, for that matter. ignorance/avoidance, creates intenal conflict. internal conflict destroys you.
Originally posted by FeceMan
My view of Christianity is soundly biblical.Matthew 5:17
Matthew 5:20
I get two things from this:
1. Christ is making fun of the Pharisees. They are hypocritical and self-righteous, not righteous.
2. Christ is saying that it is impossible to enter the kingdom of heaven because we've all broken commandments of the Law.
However, Christ's crucifixion is what has made us righteous enough to enter heaven.
in simple terms. you can either agree that the old testament is a changed/faulty record of the prophets of old, not depicting what they really said{this is the only way to consistantly believe in both verses u quoted}
or you could say that the pharisees did not FOLLOW the old testament{this becomes irrelevant to the discussion though} and th new testament does indeed tell the same things as the old, but not the same thing as the ancient israelites of that time. and that you follow both and christ didnt come to destroy the OLD testament{but did destroy the teaching of the FOLLOWERS of the old testament}
you could simply see that christ is contradicting himself. as the old testament was supposedly{according to itself as reference} the only way to enter into heaven and if christ DIDNT contradict its message, the new testatement shouldnt have introduced any NEW ways of attaining heaven/benin saved or set up new criteria. as those effectively destroy the old. there is also the problem of differences in what is and isnt permitted. {not to mention the whole debate about the new testament not being the word of christ but that of paul and the other saints, with hardly any red letter material quoted in direct speech from christ himself}.
dont know how point 2 relates. it seems stupid to BRING a testament at all when youve already broken laws that christ himself did not SUPPOSEDLY come to break. and all is futile{hence no need for a NEW testament, it cant supercede the old, and the old is already not being followed} and contradicting BOTH testaments, a special shortcut has been made to heaven by forgetting the testaments{as its futile and every1 has broken their laws in your words} and just following and believing in the crucifixion of yeshua.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
^ How can you ever find happiness, when you think you are inherently evil? You are what you think; therefore, if you think you are good, but fall short, then good is what you will be. But if you think you are evil, then no one dieing on a cross can make you good.
We don't really think we're evil in the sense that I think you think. But we know that we sin every day all day, and we basically take comfort in the fact that God still loves us, making it okay that we sin. Also, we stay happy because we know that basically we can't help the fact that we're sinners, so why even bother thinking about it.
Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
We don't really think we're evil in the sense that I think you think. But we know that we sin every day all day, and we basically take comfort in the fact that God still loves us, making it okay that we sin. Also, we stay happy because we know that basically we can't help the fact that we're sinners, so why even bother thinking about it.
Then why bother even trying to do better? Just sin like crazy. That doesn't make much sense to me.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then why bother even trying to do better? Just sin like crazy. That doesn't make much sense to me.
Why bath, why clean your room, why brush your team if it's going to get dirty again?
See how that logic is flawed, we have all sinned sometime or another. Hence why we have to cleanse the spirit.
We are not naturally evil like I said, just easily led astray.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
in simple terms. you can either agree that the old testament is a changed/faulty record of the prophets of old, not depicting what they really said{this is the only way to consistantly believe in both verses u quoted}
Christ was talking about the pharisee's, a strict sect of Judaism that didn't even follow the Torah. Instead they adhere'd to an oral tradtion created by Rabbi's known as the Talmud.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
or you could say that the pharisees did not FOLLOW the old testament{this becomes irrelevant to the discussion though} and th new testament does indeed tell the same things as the old, but not the same thing as the ancient israelites of that time. and that you follow both and christ didnt come to destroy the OLD testament{but did destroy the teaching of the FOLLOWERS of the old testament}
The Old Testament Gradually changes itself, and your taking the quote out of context. Judaism at that time barely adhere'd to the Torah/Tanankh.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Why bath, why clean your room, why brush your team if it's going to get dirty again?See how that logic is flawed, we have all sinned sometime or another. Hence why we have to cleanse the spirit.
We are not naturally evil like I said, just easily led astray.
You didn't say:
But we know that we sin every day all day,
Most people who say things like the quote above are not talking about bathing, cleaning your room or brushing your teeth. They are talking about the very nature of human existence. I fundamentally disagree with them. I believe that our basic nature is Buddhahood, not sin.
We do sin everyday, many times without knowing. Is discerning as that may seem it's the truth, and many times we do it unintentionally. It is ver y easy to sin, but that doesn't mean that man at heart is a sunful beast. If mans nature was to sin, then to not sin would be wrong.
Our True nature is to be close with God, that is the only was we'll ever be content and fulfilled.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
We do sin everyday, many times without knowing. Is discerning as that may seem it's the truth, and many times we do it without knowing. But, that doesn't mean that man is a sinful being. No, it simply shows how easy it is to sin. If mans nature was to sin, then to not sin would be wrong.Our True nature is to be close with God, that is the only was we'll ever be content and fulfilled.
Please define for me what a sin is.