Originally posted by Shakyamunison
How do I do that everyday?
You tell me, hell many times one sins without even knowing it.
Your sin is yours and yours alone in some respects. If you perform an act that fits the criteria I listed than your sinning.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Also, there is no spirit or self.
Yes, there is.
Self=Consciosuness
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
You tell me, hell many times one sins without even knowing it.
Your sin is yours and yours alone in some respects.Yes, there is.
Self=Consciosuness
Humor me. Give me an example.
As far as self and or spirit, I will take the word of Buddha over yours. I mean no offence.
Re: So We All Deserve to Suffer, huh ?
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
One of the issues I have with some [b]perspectives of Christianity is the idea that we as a human race are naturally evil, that our nature is a "sinful" one, and that no matter what good we do in our lives, we are still stained with an Earthly Evil that God cannot allow into Heaven.Instead of being percieved as a powerful race of beings who have the ability to transcend the impulses of survival and do a great many things (like Buddhism, Hinduism, some sects of Catholicism, and other religions/philosophies have), we are generally seen as a naturally wicked people who are unworthy of God's Graces, yet God will overlook our "disgusting ways" and our lack of worth, and indulge us with his generosity, saving us from an eternal torment which we all naturally deserve, if we accept Christ as savior.
This basically renders us powerless as a people, and demeans all our good actions and accomplishments as basically....worthless. We are a worthless people who are only worth something if God sees it that way.
There are those Christians, not all, but many, who beleive that we all deserve to suffer. That we, collectively, deserve no better. We do not deserve to be happy on Earth, only in Heaven.
There are those fundamentalists that see Hell as the only thing we truly deserve, eternal torment and damnation, and that to enter Heaven is to be spoiled with God's love, something we do not deserve.
What you do on Earth doesn't matter, because Earth is worthless. Your life means nothing, your joys, your family, your accomplishments.....nothing.....only Heaven matters.
***
Then there are those Christians, many Catholic, many Protestant, who escape that traditional Puritan-like beleif, and beleive that we all have God within us, and that we have incredible power, and that we can make a difference in this world, and what we do DOES matter here and now.
Universalist Christians, in fact, beleive we are all going to Heaven. A big stretch from traditional Christian thought. They believe in a God whose Love is non-judgemental, non-biased, not narrow - but wide. Absolute and truly unconditional, Ever-Forgiving, All-Loving, a God who only embraces our good, and understands our bad. A God who loves us for everything we are.
A God who does not want us to suffer, nor feels we deserve to ever.
Why is this Blasphemy to so many other Monotheistic Idealogies ?
Do some of you who beleive in God truly WANT people to suffer? Do you see suffering or punishment as an absolute necessity, hoping your deity will render out what you can't upon others ?
That's just unprogressive...why embrace suffering ? Why focus on it, even worse, why try to utilize it ?
How is it not cruelty to think that someone deserves to suffer ? Simply because they don't beleive in something ?
You Tell Me, because I will never understand that.... [/B]
If that is what you think,Then you have no idea about Christains at all.jm 😎
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Humor me. Give me an example.
Hedonism, Health Risking Addiction, etc
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
As far as self and or spirit, I will take the word of Buddha over yours. I mean no offence.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
in simple terms. you can either agree that the old testament is a changed/faulty record of the prophets of old, not depicting what they really said{this is the only way to consistantly believe in both verses u quoted}or you could say that the pharisees did not FOLLOW the old testament{this becomes irrelevant to the discussion though} and th new testament does indeed tell the same things as the old, but not the same thing as the ancient israelites of that time. and that you follow both and christ didnt come to destroy the OLD testament{but did destroy the teaching of the FOLLOWERS of the old testament}
you could simply see that christ is contradicting himself. as the old testament was supposedly{according to itself as reference} the only way to enter into heaven and if christ DIDNT contradict its message, the new testatement shouldnt have introduced any NEW ways of attaining heaven/benin saved or set up new criteria. as those effectively destroy the old. there is also the problem of differences in what is and isnt permitted. {not to mention the whole debate about the new testament not being the word of christ but that of paul and the other saints, with hardly any red letter material quoted in direct speech from christ himself}.
dont know how point 2 relates. it seems stupid to BRING a testament at all when youve already broken laws that christ himself did not SUPPOSEDLY come to break. and all is futile{hence no need for a NEW testament, it cant supercede the old, and the old is already not being followed} and contradicting BOTH testaments, a special shortcut has been made to heaven by forgetting the testaments{as its futile and every1 has broken their laws in your words} and just following and believing in the crucifixion of yeshua.
Perhaps I could elaborate...to be more righteous than the Pharisees or the keepers of the law, assuming that they were following the Law as closely as they could, would mean that one would have to be perfect. This, of course, is not possible.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Hedonism, Health Risking Addiction, etcYour entitled to your belief, but Buddhaism speaks of the consciousness as well.
Why is Hedonism a sin?
I can understand Health Risking Addiction, but I don't do that every day; 😆 not at all to be precise.
Can you give me the Sutra where Buddha talks about the consciousness?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why is Hedonism a sin?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I can understand Health Risking Addiction, but I don't do that every day; 😆 not at all to be precise.
That was an extreme example, and I do not know you that well for me to "Guess what sin you commit".
Just becuase we as humans sin everyday doesn't mean I know what sin you commit.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Can you give me the Sutra where Buddha talks about the consciousness?
The concept of Mind only or Consciousness only.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Because your overall health should take presedence over you enjoymen.That was an extreme example, and I do not know you that well for me to "Guess what sin you commit".
Just becuase we as humans sin everyday doesn't mean I know what sin you commit.
The concept of Mind only or Consciousness only.
Your definition of "sin" is very different from the typical:
Sin has been a term most usually used in a religious context, and today describes any lack of conformity to the will of God; especially, any willful disregard for the norms revealed by God is a sin. The word is from the old English synn, presumed to be from Germanic *sun(d)jô (lit: "it is true"😉. It is recorded in use as early as the 9th century. The most common formal definition is an infraction against religious or moral law. ...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Your definition of "sin" is very different from the typical:Sin has been a term most usually used in a religious context, and today describes any lack of conformity to the will of God
-Nutures
-Affects there life
- leads them to salvation
-Benefits them in the long run
Mordern perspectives are taken to litterally.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
especially, any willful disregard for the norms revealed by God is a sin. The word is from the old English synn, presumed to be from Germanic *sun(d)jô (lit: "it is true"😉. It is recorded in use as early as the 9th century. The most common formal definition is an infraction against religious or moral law. ...
Thanks for the etymology, since it does my argument more justice. Anything that is not true to the "vital construct" should be considered a sin. Though, to be fair it depends on the God and principle's of said God. It's not an easy answer like most people seem to expect.
I'm aware that said construct/God can have a negative influence on people. But, at the end of the day that does not make it all "bad".
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Again, God is a construct, but from my studies I've come to realise that most of the time GOD is simply a natural occuring pheonamon that people worship. Reason being is because :-Nutures
-Affects there life
- leads them to salvation
-Benefits them in the long runMordern perspectives are taken to litterally.
Thanks for the etymology, since it does my argument more justice. Anything that is not true to the "vital construct" should be considered a sin. Though, to be fair it depends on the God and principle's of said God. It's not an easy answer like most people seem to expect.
I'm aware that said construct/God can have a negative influence on people. But, at the end of the day that does not make it all "bad".
However, what if I find a religion tomorrow that says there are sins? The god of that religion has decreed humans cannot sin. Under your definition, there would be no sin.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, what if I find a religion tomorrow that says there are sins? The god of that religion has decreed humans cannot sin. Under your definition, there would be no sin.
To me sin is a concept that transcends religion. It's a universal truth rather than something some religion made up. I'm sure there will be a religion that has relative principles of living. But, in the end religion is a double edged sword, and like all things it can be used to help people or hurt them. Besides, organized religion is only the begining, and in the end it's the individual not the group that leads himself to salvation.
Like the etymology you used, to sin is to be untrue.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
To me sin is a concept that transcends religion. It's a universal truth rather than something some religion made up. I'm sure there will be a religion that has relative princiles of living. But, in the end religion is a double edged sword, and like all things it can be used to help people or hurt them. Besides, organized religion is only the begining, and in the end it's the individual not the group that leads himself to salvation.Like the etymology you used, to sin is to be untrue.
To me sin is just a word that some people use to control others. I do not believe in a transcendental concept of sin. As far as the universe is concerned, it doesn't matter what we do. As far as Buddhism is concerned, it is all up to what you want. If you want to be happy, then Buddha has shown us a way, but if you want to suffer, then suffer. Some people want to do good and some want to do evil. Those who do good will have good in their lives, while those who do evil will have evil in their lives. There is nothing to be saved from.
Re: Re: Re: Re: So We All Deserve to Suffer, huh ?
Originally posted by Fatima
Well , according to Buddhism (not me), hunger, misery and pain guide the way to the truth and Buddhists believe that the more pain they endure, and the more hunger and misery they suffer, the sooner they become enlightened. But this is not enlightenment; it is an inhuman life of self-abuse and slavery .See how could they taking responsibility for their sufferings if their religion told them to do so ?
That is not true at all.
Buddhism's prime goal is to overcome suffering, not endure it further. You do not know what you are talking about. If you have questions, please ask, Shaky or myself will be more than happy to answer
Hunger is intense, obsessive desire- it is a major cause of suffering because our happiness depends on what we can obtain and when we cannot obtain it, our happiness is put on hold
Please read the Concept of the Ten Worlds so you can understand what Buddhism is actually saying.
Re: Re: So We All Deserve to Suffer, huh ?
Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
It is true to that we are imperfect and inherently evil, however God doesn't believe that we should be unable to go to heaven because it. I guess I'll just explain my religion's interpretation of the Bible.First, we don't believe that when you die you go to Heaven or Hell. Actually, we don't even believe in Hell, well, we believe in Hell but people don't go there.
People are inherently evil, and sin everyday. Because of this, there is nothing we can really do about this. God knows this. That's why he sent Jesus Christ down to die for us. his death had a symbolic meaning. Death is the ultimate payment for all of our sins. God's point is that because we sin all day everyday, and because there is nothing you can do about it, just die. If and when you die, all of your sins will be forgiven.
In our faith after Armageddon we don't go to Heaven, but stay here on Earth. It makes sense, because God's original intention was for us to live on the Earth peacefully and happily.
So, when Armageddon comes any and all of the evil people who haven't died and are still being "wicked" will be destroyed, while everyone who has died and the few people who are on the planet that love and worship god will live on Earth turned into a paradise forever.
How do you know people are inheritantly evil ? Have you met every single person on Earth ?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
To me sin is just a word that some people use to control others. I do not believe in a transcendental concept of sin.
Well, I do, let's just leave it at that.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
As far as the universe is concerned, it doesn't matter what we do. As far as Buddhism is concerned, it is all up to what you want.
I strongly disagree, every action we do is important and has an effect. Look up the "Butterfly effect".
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If you want to be happy, then Buddha has shown us a way, but if you want to suffer, then suffer. Some people want to do good and some want to do evil. Those who do good will have good in their lives, while those who do evil will have evil in their lives. There is nothing to be saved from.
This isn't about human emotions or feeling good. Emotions are subjective to an individual and is easily manipulated. If you live your life mostly by how things feel to you than you would be unhealthy period. When I use the word good I reffering it to health.
For me, Religion is either helathy or unhealthy. If I want to feel good I'll watch a porno or something.
Good and Evil is in the eye's of men, it is subjective. What I speak of is objective, and transcend "feelings".
Why would you need religion to tell you how you feel? 😕
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Well, I do, let's just leave it at that.
I understand…
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I strongly disagree, every action we do is important and has an effect. Look up the "Butterfly effect".
However, the butterfly was killed by the storm.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
This isn't about human emotions or feeling good. Emotions are subjective to an individual and is easily manipulated. If you live your life mostly by how things feel to you than you would be unhealthy period. When I use the word good I reffering it to health.
You cannot serperate the two.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
For me, Religion is either helathy or unhealthy. If I want to feel good I'll watch a porno or something.
But porn is a sin. 😉
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Good and Evil is in the eye's of men, it is subjective. What I speak of is objective, and transcend "feelings".
Again, you cannot serperate the two.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Why would you need religion to tell you how you feel? 😕
You don’t.