Iron Fist vs Wolverine

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine is only slightly superhuman, the gab between him and peak human, isn't insurmountable - especially one that can chi amp.

You've never seen a ground and pound before? That's how it's done. I guess you don't watch MMA. Shang-Chi was finished the moment he was smashed into the ground. Wolverine even let him go completely when Storm blasted with lightning, and Shang-Chi couldn't even get to his feet, Wolverine just pushed him back down then Cannonball had to pull the two apart.

so wolverine's durability came into play, I mean of course he gets hit by hulk level beings and hes fine. Again you keep ignoring Wolverine is stating the reaons he's owning Shang-Chi and and Shand confirms them in his thought bubble. Stop adding your swing to what's happening in order to make it better for Wolverine. Unless you want to argue that Wolverine is peak human and thus had no advantages, then you'd have a case for skill being the main reason Wolverine won.

no, that wasn't done. we see shang-chi flipped and wolverine mounts shang-chis chest. We see no ground pound, Wolverien is doing absolutely nothing to keep Shang-chi on the ground, Shang-chi could shift his weight and Wolverine would fall off. Shang-chi is perfectly fine until wolverine pops his claws out which evidently freaks shang-chi out.

Originally posted by Trackz
so wolverine's durability came into play, I mean of course he gets hit by hulk level beings and hes fine. Again you keep ignoring Wolverine is stating the reaons he's owning Shang-Chi and and Shand confirms them in his thought bubble. Stop adding your swing to what's happening in order to make it better for Wolverine. Unless you want to argue that Wolverine is peak human and thus had no advantages, then you'd have a case for skill being the main reason Wolverine won.

no, that wasn't done. we see shang-chi flipped and wolverine mounts shang-chis chest. We see no ground pound, Wolverien is doing absolutely nothing to keep Shang-chi on the ground, Shang-chi could shift his weight and Wolverine would fall off. Shang-chi is perfectly fine until wolverine pops his claws out which evidently freaks shang-chi out.

I'm not ignoring anything, this isn't a book, it's a comic book, the narration doesn't exist in a bubble. We witnessed the fight, WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED. His healing factor didn't come into play. He wasn't hit. His claws didn't come into play. He didn't use them. Shang-Chi cheap shotted Wolverine a single time before the fight started. He would have shrugged that off without his healing factor. He isn't made of wax paper, base line human durability would have allowed him to tank that without any negative side effects. Shang-Chi is peak human and he amps to low level superhuman, he is in the same ball park as Wolverine physically, he just got shut out because Wolverine is more skilled.

He was in a full mount. It is the postion that leads into the ground and pound, him not doing it doesn't matter. Shang-Chi was pinned inbetween two bars with Wolverine in the full mount holding his head in place. The way to escape a full mount is draw your legs in close to your chest, and buck the person off while rolling to one side or another... but Shang-Chi was pinned of against a gate with his head wedged inbetween two bars. He was finished.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm not ignoring anything, this isn't a book, it's a [b]comic book, the narration doesn't exist in a bubble. We witnessed the fight, WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED. His healing factor didn't come into play. He wasn't hit. His claws didn't come into play. He didn't use them. Shang-Chi cheap shotted Wolverine a single time before the fight started. He would have shrugged that off without his healing factor. He isn't made of wax paper, base line human durability would have allowed him to tank that without any negative side effects. Shang-Chi is peak human and he amps to low level superhuman, he is in the same ball park as Wolverine physically, he just got shut out because Wolverine is more skilled.

He was in a full mount. It is the postion that leads into the ground and pound, him not doing it doesn't matter. Shang-Chi was pinned inbetween two bars with Wolverine in the full mount holding his head in place. The way to escape a full mount is draw your legs in close to your chest, and buck the person off while rolling to one side or another... but Shang-Chi was pinned of against a gate with his head wedged inbetween two bars. He was finished. [/B]

You better have a good reason to ignore a thought bubble my friend, this is the first truly awful argument I've heard from you 😐

Originally posted by Bentley
You better have a good reason to ignore a thought bubble my friend, this is the first truly awful argument I've heard from you 😐

The fight lasted three panels. Wolverine saying his healing factor and claws surprised Shang-Chi, doesn't matter because we saw that neither of them were used. Done. Simple. End of story. Unless you guys are reading a print out of the script in braille that should be pretty clear. Wolverine didn't use his healing factor, because he didn't get hit. He didn't use his claws, because they were sheathed until the end of the fight. How did those two things attributed to his victory... if he didn't use them?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
The fight lasted three panels. Wolverine saying his healing factor and claws surprised Shang-Chi, doesn't matter because [b]we saw that neither of them were used. Done. Simple. End of story. Unless you guys are reading a print out of the script in braille that should be pretty clear. Wolverine didn't use his healing factor, because he didn't get hit. He didn't use his claws, because they were sheathed until the end of the fight. How did those two things attributed to his victory... if he didn't use them? [/B]

Ok, I guess it's just an awful depiction in the comic. It calls into question whether narration beats image. So you justify saying it was a thought bubble and not on panel narration, right?

Originally posted by Bentley
Ok, I guess it's just an awful depiction in the comic. It calls into question whether narration beats image. So you justify saying it was a thought bubble and not on panel narration, right?

It was just the obligatory "what are the characters abilities?" mention that takes place at least once a X-book, except intregrated into the story in a speech bubble instead of the normal narration box.

The image trumps the narration, because it is what happened, not what was said to happen. Wolverine didn't use his claws, and he didn't use his healing factor. How do I know? Because I saw the fight happen, and it ended in three panels with Wolverine effortlessly pawning Shang-Chi.

Look at it this way, if I say it takes me five minutes to run a mile, but you time me running a four minute mile, does me saying it takes me five minutes trump the fact that I actually did run it in four?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm not ignoring anything, this isn't a book, it's a [b]comic book, the narration doesn't exist in a bubble. We witnessed the fight, WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED. His healing factor didn't come into play. He wasn't hit. His claws didn't come into play. He didn't use them. Shang-Chi cheap shotted Wolverine a single time before the fight started. He would have shrugged that off without his healing factor. He isn't made of wax paper, base line human durability would have allowed him to tank that without any negative side effects. Shang-Chi is peak human and he amps to low level superhuman, he is in the same ball park as Wolverine physically, he just got shut out because Wolverine is more skilled.

He was in a full mount. It is the postion that leads into the ground and pound, him not doing it doesn't matter. Shang-Chi was pinned inbetween two bars with Wolverine in the full mount holding his head in place. The way to escape a full mount is draw your legs in close to your chest, and buck the person off while rolling to one side or another... but Shang-Chi was pinned of against a gate with his head wedged inbetween two bars. He was finished. [/B]

You can keep stating wolverine won because he was more skilled, however we didn't see shang-chi amp, just because he can doesn't mean he did, and in addition wolverine was stating he was winning because of his animal-like enhancement then used his claws to end the fight, as much as you want to disagree the fact of the matter is all of Shang-chis limbs were free and Shang stopped fighting once wolverine brought his claws out which freaked shang-chi out, like you said its a comic book we can clearly see Shang-chi is freaked out by the claws and even then he had already begun to react to wolverine by grabbing his arm.

a ground pound requires the opponent to hold the other to the ground, actually pinning them so they can't move, wolverine was sitting on shang-chis chest.

however for once you're actually arguing Wolverine can be matched physically by a peak human. I love how your arguments change depending on what you want to prove.

Wolverine wins.

BTW what page are the scans in question on?

Originally posted by Trackz
baseline human durability would allow him to shrug off attack from an opponent you said your self can rip heads off? that's just false.

You can keep stating wolverine won because he was more skilled, however we didn't see shang-chi amp, just because he can doesn't mean he did, and in addition wolverine was stating he was winning because of his animal-like enhancement then used his claws to end the fight, as much as you want to disagree the fact of the matter is all of Shang-chis limbs were free and Shang stopped fighting once wolverine brought his claws out which freaked shang-chi out, like you said its a comic book we can clearly see Shang-chi is freaked out by the claws and even then he had already begun to react to wolverine by grabbing his arm.

a ground pound requires the opponent to hold the other to the ground, actually pinning them so they can't move, wolverine was sitting on shang-chis chest.

however for once you're actually arguing Wolverine can be matched physically by a peak human. I love how your arguments change depending on what you want to prove.

No, it's true alright. Peak humans go shot to shot with each other frequently and they are strong enough to rip off limbs if they were so inclined. It's probably why we don't see much wrestling. You don't want to go to the mat with Punisher and have catch you in an arm bar and tear off your arm. Kingpin rips of arms causally well shaking hands... were you were under the impression that Daredevil survived exchanges with Kingpin because he had a healing factor. Shrugging of a kick from Shang-Chi is nothing. Typical peak human durability at work, Wolverine's healing factor didn't factor in at all.

Shang-Chi doesn't glow when he chi amps, he isn't a super saiyan, what do you want?

You don't hold someone down for a ground and pound. You position yourself high on their chest so they can't buck you easily and then you unload with hay-makers from both arms. Wolverine had Shang-Chin in the full mount, with his head wedge between two bars and he was holding his head in place with his arm. Wolverine rocked Shang-Chi when he slammed him to the ground, Shang-Chi was finished, he couldn't even get to his feet in when Storm blasted Wolverine with lightning.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No, it's true alright. Peak humans go shot to shot with each other frequently and they are strong enough to rip off limbs if they were so inclined. It's probably why we don't see much wrestling. You don't want to go to the mat with Punisher and have catch you in an arm bar and tear off your arm. Kingpin rips of arms causally well shaking hands... were you were under the impression that Daredevil survived exchanges with Kingpin because he had a healing factor. Shrugging of a kick from Shang-Chi is nothing. Typical peak human durability at work, Wolverine's healing factor didn't factor in at all.

Shang-Chi doesn't glow when he chi amps, he isn't a super saiyan, what do you want?

You don't hold someone down for a ground and pound. You position yourself high on their chest so they can't buck you easily and then you unload with hay-makers from both arms. Wolverine had Shang-Chin in the full mount, with his head wedge between two bars and he was holding his head in place with his arm. Wolverine rocked Shang-Chi when he slammed him to the ground, Shang-Chi was finished, he couldn't even get to his feet in when Storm blasted Wolverine with lightning.

so are you saying Wolverine is a peak human?

you're saying he chi-amped with no evidence, meaning they were equal in all regards despite the fact Wolverine was stating he had advantages over wolverine. So we ignore dialogue when it works against Wolverine and use it when it's in his favor?

YouTube video
one leg on the ground to stabilize yourself to make sure the opponent can't move. , shang chi was still able to respond, you won't find a video of another opponent sitting on the grounded ones chest, because that's terrible positioning.

the fact he didn't get up shows us how freaked out he was by wolverine claws, since Wolverine only has peak human strength

whatever.. when was the last time you took grappling training. what srank said is basic knowledge of grapple/wrestling.

you do sit near close to the chest which is the dominating position which also presses down on the opponent and makes it near impossible to push them off due to lack of leverage.

go take some MMA or military combat training it is one of the 1st positions you are taught to take.facepalm2

Originally posted by King Castle
whatever.. when was the last time you took grappling training. what srank said is basic knowledge of grapple/wrestling.

you do sit high on the chest which is the dominating position which also presses down on the opponent and makes it near impossible to push them off due to lack of leverage.

go take some MMA or military combat training it is one of the 1st positions you are taught to take.facepalm2

Originally posted by Trackz
...read the scan.

"surprisesd ain't ya...first time you've squared off against...enhanced animal senses, an acelerated healing factor, and razor sharp bone-claws"

I didn't lie, however to state that it was never stated or suggested? What does that make you?

stated you never faced some one with enhanced senses or healing factor bot of which were irrlevent. You acted as if wolverine stated he had superior stats and thats why he won. which is bull face lie.

Trying to pretend wolverine stating he has a healing factor and super human sense is the same as you impling wolverine stated he won through superior physical enhancements, is not remotely the same.

not necessarily right on top high of the chest but you do find them sitting on their opponents taking the better position for pounding.

Originally posted by YFZ 350
Logan had full mount on Blade and lost the advantage. LOL.

Originally posted by Trackz
so are you saying Wolverine is a peak human?

you're saying he chi-amped with no evidence, meaning they were equal in all regards despite the fact Wolverine was stating he had advantages over wolverine. So we ignore dialogue when it works against Wolverine and use it when it's in his favor?

YouTube video
one leg on the ground to stabilize yourself to make sure the opponent can't move. , shang chi was still able to respond, you won't find a video of another opponent sitting on the grounded ones chest, because that's terrible positioning.

the fact he didn't get up shows us how freaked out he was by wolverine claws, since Wolverine only has peak human strength

No, I'm saying that a peak human could shrug off that attack, so assuming that Wolverine used his powers to aid him is completely fallacious. Try and keep up please.

The advantages Wolverine was "stated" to have were what? Claws. Which he didn't use. Healing factor. Which he didn't use. Enhanced senses. Which afford him no real advantages in a melee exchange. We aren't ignoring dialogue, what we are doing is acknowledging the events as they occurred on the panels, and those events don't support the statement. Pretty f@cking simple.
That isn't a full mount. Google it. 😆

He didn't get up because he was ****ed up. He is still on the ground two pages latter. He couldn't even get up when Wolverine wasn't on top of him. Wolverine had Shang-Chi in a full mount. His head was wedged in between two bars. Wolverine was holding his head in place. He wouldn't have been able to get free.

Originally posted by Trackz
appeal to authority fallacy also plain wrong since you won't find any professionals sitting on their opponents chest

🤨

That's not appeal to authority. Appeal to authority would be something akin to "Wolverine sitting on Chi's chest was a dominant position because Pr said so."

Castle's just informing you of basic grappling knowledge.
Wrestling, Jiu Jitsu, shoot fighting... even basic self defenses, you always learn pressure on the chest of your opponent is an essential tool.

Anyways, let's not complicate the issue more than needs be. Wolverine owned Shang. His healing factor and claws never became a factor in the fight itself.
His senses? Perhaps.

@ skid Trackz
Marine McMap training sitting on opponent @ 1:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0phselGcwRY

Marine McMap Black belt exam for instructors, sitting position @ 1:07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0SB5xlxJIU&feature=related

by the way i was a green belt instructor if that matters to you..
aside from that if you watch MMA you see fighters from time to time sit on their opponent as they pound.

by the way the manuever is called a full mount

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZoeLA8jMx8

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Shang-Chi doesn't glow when he chi amps, he isn't a super saiyan, what do you want?