Iron Fist vs Wolverine

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Yes they did. It gave a reason right in that very issue, clearly you never read it. Honestly stop talking out ur ass.

[b]Don't know why.. can't read you well. Like a cacophony of voices in your head.

That's not much an an explanation. So he has multiple personality disorder? Doesn't say. And, by Mr. X's own words, he wasn't entirely sure that's the reason he can't read him easily, because he himself said he's not sure why he can't read him properly. Mr. X himself described his power as "sensing nerve impulses", meaning he doesn't do it off of simply reading surface thoughts (And besides, in a serious fight who has time to monologue to themselves?) He probably only suspects the multiple voices is related to why he can't sense his nerve impulses.

So, not really explained why he's having trouble reading him, as much as speculated on.

what does his level have to do with anything? [/B]

Because he did well against him despite his handicap, and I'm trying to judge how impressive the showing is?

Originally posted by Daredevil1
He didn't tap out to it. As in he definitely did not want to take the lose out option.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Iron Fist barehanded >>>> Mr. X barehanded >>>> Wolverine clawed >>>> Wolverine sparring at a 6 w/o claws >>>> Iron Fist sparring at a 3 w/o IF.

What people keep forgetting (or trying to forget) is that Iron Fist while weakened has already embarassed Wolverine on-panel in a real fight. Not much issue.

Umm yeah Rand punts Wolverine back to Canada

Originally posted by iceman24567
Umm yeah Rand punts Wolverine back to Canada

Originally posted by iceman24567
Umm yeah Rand punts Wolverine back to Canada

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
👆

Glad we all agree on Danny's clear superiority.

Wolverine can't lose because he's the king of everything on this board.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Iron Fist barehanded >>>> Mr. X barehanded >>>> Wolverine clawed >>>> Wolverine sparring at a 6 w/o claws >>>> Iron Fist sparring at a 3 w/o IF.

What people keep forgetting (or trying to forget) is that Iron Fist while weakened has already embarassed Wolverine on-panel in a real fight. Not much issue.

Why is it that when Iron Fist has decades old fights with people like Wolverine and Sabretooth, who have been documented as getting more powerful and becoming better fighters over the years, those early fights are seen as conclusive evidence, yet when he has a decades old fight with Captain America, the fact that he's gotten upgrades since then completely invalidates the showing?

^ It doesn't invalidate it. Cap looked almost like he had an advantage over old Iron Fist. Wolverine/Sabretooth got straight up embarrassed when matched against old Iron Fist (all 3 fights written by Claremont, fyi). So an upgraded Iron Fist would probably be more than a match for Cap whereas upgraded Iron Fist would wtfpwn Wolverine.

Not that hard to deduce.

Not to mention, the context of the original fight isn't really a fair comparison, given Danny was running on fumes.

May as well say Wolverine without his healing factor and tons of wounds is a fair comparison of how he'd do against Lady Deathstrike and Omega Red, as happened in one Wolverine story.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ It doesn't invalidate it. Cap looked almost like he had an advantage over old Iron Fist. Wolverine/Sabretooth got straight up embarrassed when matched against old Iron Fist (all 3 fights written by Claremont, fyi). So an upgraded Iron Fist would probably be more than a match for Cap whereas upgraded Iron Fist would wtfpwn Wolverine.

Not that hard to deduce.

Ok, so the fights were written by Claremont, (I knew this already, ftr) that doesn't change the fact that after these fights, Claremont gave both Wolverine and Sabretooth significant upgrades, and that later writers continued this process. So again, I ask, how is a fight between them from 30 years ago, before several significant upgrades for both sides, possibly relevant, let alone conclusive evidence that a fight between them today would go the same way?

Originally posted by Ize19
Ok, so the fights were written by Claremont, (I knew this already, ftr) that doesn't change the fact that after these fights, Claremont gave both Wolverine and Sabretooth significant upgrades

Originally posted by cdtm
Not to mention, the context of the original fight isn't really a fair comparison, given Danny was running on fumes.

May as well say Wolverine without his healing factor and tons of wounds is a fair comparison of how he'd do against Lady Deathstrike and Omega Red, as happened in one Wolverine story.

Current upgraded Danny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weakened old Danny.

So, Ize19, who do you think could physically beat Wolverine consistently? What kind of stats are needed, at a bare minimum, to get a majority?

EDIT: Wrong thread.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Iron Fist was never > Mr. X.

That's why Mr. X was having nightmares about how he failed against Danny.

Get back to me when Mr. X beats down the Wrecking Crew, damages Luke Cage, and damages War Machines armor.

Without charging an Iron Fist, mind. Even against Cage, there were moments he was beating him bloody without using the charged fist..

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Not really. In fact, not at all. I've read Claremont's X-Men & Sabretooth inside and out. Other than Sabretooth's Weapon X upgrade, there's nothing. That KMC forum myth has been busted already. 👆

Current upgraded Danny >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weakened old Danny.

Oh? Fine then, show me where Sabretooth demonstrated strength like this in his fights with Iron Fist:

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1559/uncannyxmen21914.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4420/uxmch21310.jpg
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/8894/uxmch21317.jpg

Or how about healing like this:

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/5603/sabrewolv020.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/6961/sabrewolv021.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8006/sabrewolv022.jpg
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9223/sabrewolv046.jpg

And even outside of Claremont, the fact that you focused in on that, while ignoring the larger point of how all three characters have grown so significantly that those early fights have little to no meaning today, just shows how dishonest your debating style is.

Originally posted by cdtm
So, Ize19, who do you think could physically beat Wolverine consistently? What kind of stats are needed, at a bare minimum, to get a majority?

It depends on the combination. For instance, if Spider-man had 50+ ton strength, and the skill to avoid Wolverine while still landing his blows, then I'd say he could take Wolverine. I'd also say that Sabretooth is probably at the minimum level needed for someone with bladed weaponry to take him down for the majority.

Of course, if you just have an overwhelming strength advantage like Hulk, then you'd better have good enough durability/healing factor to survive his claw strikes, or that's not going to be enough. Ditto with the speed advantage of someone like Spidey with his Spider-sense active.

Wolverine is too good of a fighter, he's too fast, too strong, with weaponry that's too effective, and a healing factor that makes him too durable, for anything less.

Double post.

Originally posted by Ize19
Why is it that when Iron Fist has decades old fights with people like Wolverine and Sabretooth, who have been documented as getting more powerful and becoming better fighters over the years, those early fights are seen as conclusive evidence, yet when he has a decades old fight with Captain America, the fact that he's gotten upgrades since then completely invalidates the showing?

EXACTY.... Good question. And one I highly doubt will be answered.

Even if Iron fist's reflexes were fast enough to land a KO worthy punch on logan (he's NOT faster than logan), logan has shown resistance to attacks by characters so out of Iron fist's league it isn't even funny.

-WW hulk couldn't KO logan, even while smashing him with up close haymakers

- wonder man has speed blitzed logan with around 6 massive punches which couldnt KO logan

- gladiator pulverized logan during a new x-men arc & couldn't KO logan

- thor, with his hammer, has struck logan with full force & logan resisted

- red hulk could not KO logan during the uncanny x-force/red hulk story

those are just a few samples of the class 100+ level & above punches & damage he has taken. for iron fist to even land one single WW hulk level punch he would have to be clearly shown as logan's superior in terms of speed & MA abilities. EVEN THEN...he wouldn't win because of logan's damage soak which is legenday. on the contrary, as shown in new avengers & logan's feats against martial artists (which have already been mentioned) iron fist is likely logan's equal in terms of speed & MA ability. that would not be enough for the aforementioned reasons.