^ Exactly.
Wolverine out classed IF in martial arts in that issue. And even when sparring, you still try not to let your opponent hit you. Imagine if Wolverine' claws were out. IF would've been cut the moment the fight started, since Logan got off the first attack. IF is so much faster than Wolverine, but still couldn't avoid Wolverine' attacks. Hmmm....mhmm Guest IF isn't faster. Of course the fanboys will disagree. 😗
Originally posted by Marvelknight
^ Exactly.Wolverine out classed IF in martial arts in that issue. And even when sparring, you still try not to let your opponent hit you. Imagine if Wolverine' claws were out. IF would've been cut the moment the fight started, since Logan got off the first attack. IF is so much faster than Wolverine, but still couldn't avoid Wolverine' attacks. Hmmm....mhmm Guest IF isn't faster. Of course the fanboys will disagree. 😗
Danny matching Spidey and tagging Mr. X totally proves he was lying when he claimed he was at a 3.
Wolverine is NOT as fast as Spider Man. Not even close. But Danny is.
Originally posted by cdtm
Danny matching Spidey and tagging Mr. X totally proves he was lying when he claimed he was at a 3.Wolverine is NOT as fast as Spider Man. Not even close. But Danny is.
Wolverine has "matched" Spiderman half a dozen times, and Parker has on occasion even questioned whether or not Wolverine was in fact faster then he himself was.
Originally posted by wildernesss
[B
-WW hulk couldn't KO logan, even while smashing him with up close haymakers- wonder man has speed blitzed logan with around 6 massive punches which couldnt KO logan
- gladiator pulverized logan during a new x-men arc & couldn't KO logan
- thor, with his hammer, has struck logan with full force & logan resisted
- red hulk could not KO logan during the uncanny x-force/red hulk story
those are just a few samples of the class 100+ level & above punches & damage he has taken. for iron fist to even land one single WW hulk level punch he would have to be clearly shown as logan's superior in terms of speed & MA abilities. EVEN THEN...he wouldn't win because of logan's damage soak which is legenday. on the contrary, as shown in new avengers & logan's feats against martial artists (which have already been mentioned) iron fist is likely logan's equal in terms of speed & MA ability. that would not be enough for the aforementioned reasons. [/B]
So your argument, is that Wolverine is impossible to knock out? And the many examples where he has been knocked out don't count?
Is that what you're saying?
If not, I'll ask you the same question I asked Ize19: Who, in your opinion, has the minimum necessary stats to knock out Logan for a majority win?
Originally posted by cdtm
So your argument, is that Wolverine is impossible to knock out? And the many examples where he has been knocked out don't count?Is that what you're saying?
If not, I'll ask you the same question I asked Ize19: Who, in your opinion, has the minimum necessary stats to knock out Logan for a majority win?
Good luck getting a straight answer. 👆
Originally posted by cdtm
So your argument, is that Wolverine is impossible to knock out? And the many examples where he has been knocked out don't count?Is that what you're saying?
If not, I'll ask you the same question I asked Ize19: Who, in your opinion, has the minimum necessary stats to knock out Logan for a majority win?
He can be knocked out but his healing factor needs to overloaded for it to happen, which isn't something Iron Fist can do before he gets eviscerated.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He can be knocked out but his healing factor needs to overloaded for it to happen, which isn't something *the vast majority of melee based streets(StyleTime edit)* can do before they get eviscerated.
Noone here thinks Wolverine is impossible to KO. Doing so just happens to incredibly difficult, especially for other street levelers.
Originally posted by StyleTime
I don't get why this is such a hard concept to grasp for some. If someone points out why Wolverine beats [insert someone's favorite street leveler], the rebuttal is almost always "WHAT!? YOU ACT LIKE WOLVERINE CAN"T BE KOED YOU FANBOY RAAAGHH!!!"
When someone posts a list of class 100's that didn't KO Logan, it makes it look like that poster is arguing even class 100 strength isn't enough to KO him.
Not to mention, some how outright said that class 50 isn't enough to knock him out.
And Danny isn't the average street. He can't hit like Hulk, but Logan also won't be able to roll with his punches.. Danny has the skill and the speed to hit him full on, every time.
Originally posted by cdtm
When someone posts a list of class 100's that didn't KO Logan, it makes it look like that poster is arguing even class 100 strength isn't enough to KO him.Not to mention, some how outright said that class 50 isn't enough to knock him out.
And Danny isn't the average street. He can't hit like Hulk, but Logan also won't be able to roll with his punches.. Danny has the skill and the speed to hit him full on, every time.
Those characters mentioned could all theoretically ko Wolverine, it's just that they were unable to do so in the time span their fights took place in because of how fast his healing factor works. In order to ko Wolverine you need to over load his healing factor. Without rest every time Wolverine heals from an attack in quick succession he will start to heal slower and slower until diminishing returns kicks in and he can't heal fast enough to remain conscious. Koing Wolverine is something that is notoriously difficult to do and contrary to what you seem to think it is something that has happened very rarely in his career, especially in the last decade. WWH grabbed Wolverine with one hand and unloaded a dozen or so full on haymakers on Wolverine's face and it wasn't enough for a complete ko. There was no rolling with those punches, Wolverine just ate them full on, and the whole time he was slicing up Hulks forearms and stabbing him, attacks that would have severed the arms of anyone who's arms weren't three feet thick and didn't have a healing factor. It would take dozens and dozens of flush Iron Fists to put Wolverine down, and that isn't something that is going to happen before Wolverine carves up Danny like a turkey.
Originally posted by cdtm
So your argument, is that Wolverine is impossible to knock out? And the many examples where he has been knocked out don't count?
Originally posted by cdtm
When someone posts a list of class 100's that didn't KO Logan, it makes it look like that poster is arguing even class 100 strength isn't enough to KO him.Not to mention, some how outright said that class 50 isn't enough to knock him out.
And Danny isn't the average street. He can't hit like Hulk, but Logan also won't be able to roll with his punches.. Danny has the skill and the speed to hit him full on, every time.
Here is some insider info on Wolvie vs melee combatants:
You need at least one, preferably a combination, of the following to fight Wolverine: a good healing factor of your own, the speed to avoid significant damage while attacking him, the durability to take the claws, or some kinda "hax" power like Mr. X. Couple those with martial arts ability, and you can make it a fight; however, if you lack these, you are in a very tough spot against Wolverine. Strength levels aren't that important after a certain point, and many of you fail to see that.
Originally posted by Ize19His fight with Ms. Marvel which was in Ms. Marvel #24, published June 1979 and written by... Chris Claremont amply showcased his strength and healing.
Oh? Fine then, show me where Sabretooth demonstrated strength like this in his fights with Iron Fist:http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1559/uncannyxmen21914.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4420/uxmch21310.jpg
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/8894/uxmch21317.jpgOr how about healing like this:
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/5603/sabrewolv020.jpg
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/6961/sabrewolv021.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8006/sabrewolv022.jpg
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9223/sabrewolv046.jpgAnd even outside of Claremont, the fact that you focused in on that, while ignoring the larger point of how all three characters have grown so significantly that those early fights have little to no meaning today, just shows how dishonest your debating style is.
Yeah. That was his second appearance ever. Enough with this "Sabretooth/Wolverine basically weren't even mutants until 1990" myth. Danny while weakened and blind, beat him. Get over it. You didn't like =/= it didn't happen.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
His fight with Ms. Marvel which was in Ms. Marvel #24, published June 1979 and written by... Chris Claremont amply showcased his strength and healing.Yeah. That was his second appearance ever. Enough with this "Sabretooth/Wolverine basically weren't even mutants until 1990" myth. Danny while weakened and blind, beat him. Get over it. You didn't like =/= it didn't happen.
Stop dodging the point. I never claimed that they "basically weren't even mutants until 1990," it's just a lot easier to disprove that, than it is to disprove the basic fact that they have improved massively since the 1970's. And I didn't say "show me where Sabretooth had strength and a healing factor," I said show me where he had feats at the same level as the ones I posted, as you tried to say that Sabretooth hadn't been improved at all, except for one time by Weapon X. Those fights are from 30 years ago, and are not indicative of how those same fights would go today.
Originally posted by Ize19... reread the Ms. Marvel fight.
Stop dodging the point. I never claimed that they "basically weren't even mutants until 1990," it's just a lot easier to disprove that, than it is to disprove the basic fact that they have improved massively since the 1970's. And I didn't say "show me where Sabretooth had strength and a healing factor," I said show me where he had feats at the same level as the ones I posted, as you tried to say that Sabretooth hadn't been improved at all, except for one time by Weapon X. Those fights are from 30 years ago, and are not indicative of how those same fights would go today.
Originally posted by cdtm
Danny matching Spidey and tagging Mr. X totally proves he was lying when he claimed he was at a 3.Wolverine is NOT as fast as Spider Man. Not even close. But Danny is.
Oh really? Lets take a look here.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/235/781531114956336ob2.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8513/781531114956293ry0.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2995/781531114956215oa1.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1452/781531114956157sn0.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6793/max00022nj4.jpg
And another example..
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1016/mcp1nj1.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6981/mcp2wq8.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9273/mpc3gh8.jpg
Originally posted by cdtm
When someone posts a list of class 100's that didn't KO Logan, it makes it look like that poster is arguing even class 100 strength isn't enough to KO him.Not to mention, some how outright said that class 50 isn't enough to knock him out.
And Danny isn't the average street. He can't hit like Hulk, but Logan also won't be able to roll with his punches.. Danny has the skill and the speed to hit him full on, every time.
Iron Fist hits like the Hulk huh? Well lets see how Ol' Chucklehead handles a hit from Hulk. WWHulk that is.
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6339/wwhmj3.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5757/58094060gh7.jpg
http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/4964/wwh3ir7.jpg
http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/4046/wwh4fz3.jpg
And he's back for more...
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4748/06916wwhxmen3dcp0003041yo6.jpg
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4625/14361wwhxmen3dcp0016122pw8.jpg
And lets not forget Wolverine can down class 90 opponents with fist alone.
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6210/roughousefistfightqa4.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6779/roughousefistfight2nm9.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1048/roughousefistfight3yw5.jpg
Iron Fist was lucky Wolverine held back in that sparring match. Logan could've took his head off with that last punch. Danny played off his defeat. Still wasn't willing to give it another try when Logan called out "who's next?" I see. I mean if Wolverine is at 6 and Iron Fist was only at 3, what's 3 more levels gonna hurt right?
Originally posted by wildernesss
Even if Iron fist's reflexes were fast enough to land a KO worthy punch on logan (he's NOT faster than logan), logan has shown resistance to attacks by characters so out of Iron fist's league it isn't even funny.-WW hulk couldn't KO logan, even while smashing him with up close haymakers
- wonder man has speed blitzed logan with around 6 massive punches which couldnt KO logan
- gladiator pulverized logan during a new x-men arc & couldn't KO logan
- thor, with his hammer, has struck logan with full force & logan resisted
- red hulk could not KO logan during the uncanny x-force/red hulk story
those are just a few samples of the class 100+ level & above punches & damage he has taken. for iron fist to even land [B]one
single WW hulk level punch he would have to be clearly shown as logan's superior in terms of speed & MA abilities. EVEN THEN...he wouldn't win because of logan's damage soak which is legenday. on the contrary, as shown in new avengers & logan's feats against martial artists (which have already been mentioned) iron fist is likely logan's equal in terms of speed & MA ability. that would not be enough for the aforementioned reasons. [/B]
Romulus knocked wolverine out by throwing a sword at his head...
FrankenCastle just smashed his head into a wall a couple of times.
WWH DID ko him, easily.
As did Namor.
Red Hulk tossed him a couple of miles as did Skaar.
Romulus's henchman (can't remember the name) KO'd Wolverine several times.
Shadowland Daredevil one-shotted him I'm pretty sure.
