Ken Masters v.s. Paul Phoenix

He may have inherited the huge Masters fortune, but he doesn’t spend it like a spoiled brat. He’s been taught discipline. He settles for the basics. Paul, on the other hand, also inherited a massive fortune. He gave it up, true, but only after days and nights of partying his soul out. He’s not completely humble. However, he did miss his old fighting life and got back into it.

Paul NEVER inherited any fortune. his ending was NON-canon. As for Ken settling for basics...stop making assumptions.

The very fact that a big part of what you’re relying on in order for Paul to have the odds of winning is his raw strength and his grapples and holds implies that at some point in the fight, Ken is somehow going to be slow enough for a huge smashing punch to connect or stupidly get close enough and not be able to dodge Paul. That’s all there is to it. You don’t even need to type it in, it’s implied. Semantics loops don’t work with me, Sado.

that's stupid, really. I never implied such a thing. in fact i've mentioned Paul's experience over and over again, combined with his great power and his agility. He isn't slow.
What I AM implying is that Paul has enough experience to know what to go for his big punches, when to use feints and how to lure in a fighter or trick him into doing something that would leave him open for either a big KO punch, a grapple or a submission hold.

Don’t be so quick as to start pointing fingers about me accusing when I’ve done absolutely nothing of the sort. I address only the objective matters here

I’m not putting Paul’s agility down, he is pretty darn fast for a big guy, but if I honestly think I (I play goal) can dodge his blows then he’s probably not fast enough to hit Ken as many times as Ken gets him. Seriously, he’s almost demonically fast when he’s doing his Shippu-Jinrai-Kyaku special. Imagine someone firing off four semi-automatic rounds, then squeezing off a burst. That’s how fast it is.

What use is strength if you don’t have the speed to utilize it effectively against your opponent? What use is agility if you’re too weak to do any real physical damage?
What use is experience if you cannot physically overcome your opponent anyway?
They’re like links in a chain

Are you suggesting that breaking someone’s bones takes more strength than, say, a shoryuken that sends Guile flying? Absurd reasoning. See above.

The beauty of some methods of breaking bones, even basic ones is that they require minimal strength, Sado. Ken, if he placed his blow or torquing hold on someone right, can break their leg/arm, whatever.

See above. I said this last time with the Paul kicking a soccer ball example.

No, you haven’t contributed anything for this part of the argument here Sado, let alone providing a clear and concise point, except present repetitive examples of false logic and silly reasoning.

You are not explaining anything here. I am.

Like you said earlier to Remy, move-lists aren’t going to give someone an advantage over the other. It’s how and if they’re utilized that matters. Ken’s shinryuken isn’t going to do shit if it misses, neither does Paul’s Phoenix Smasher if Ken dodges

Yes, I saw that part. You’re clearly already establishing your bias in your very first post towards the side of Tekken, saying that Ryu will get “pwned” by the likes of Jin and Kazuya. Bit one-sided, doesn’t it seem?

You’ve said it your Ken’s done a lot more than just that. It’s more than one ‘tourney’, according to you it’s three. And ‘unnamed, unheard fighters’, makes it sound like he is fighting nobodies.

so tell me: was ANY of what i said wrong? the fighters he's fought are never named.

And you know DarkC, it would have really helped if you did some more "looking around" in these forums before coming out here and pointing fingers at me (and you are). Since day one you have been criticzing practically EVERYTHING that i post or even imply (only i dont) while Darkstorm, Remy and others walk away scott free.
it would have helped if you actually went to some of Ryu-Kazuya or Ryu-Jin threads and read what i posted there. But no...you just come out of the blue, see me arguing with Darkstorm and attempt to "cleanse" me of my sins without knowing the whole score. Please. next time around do your homework before you decide to do me a service.
and again, i'm not the only one who thinks that way. Superboy thinks taht way too.

He did win three in a row in the course of the Street Fighter chronology, but apparently in the lore, he had been competing in the U.S. tournaments before Street Fighter even started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Masters

It enormously does, Sado. It’s strange how you tell me now when earlier on you were claiming that Paul’s judo and throws/counters would give him an advantage. Judo utilizes some of the basic terms of motion physics, such as torque and center of gravity. How could you say this before and contradict yourself shortly after, then expect for it to make sense?

Physics dictate what happens in a real-world fight, which is what I’m assuming here between Paul and Ken. Like I explained earlier to Fortress, if Ken had hit Paul with a shoryuken, for example, and Paul was falling headfirst, a single degree in angle could decide whether Paul gets a minor bruise on his head or winds up with a hairline fracture of the vertebrae.

Hence, all this pretty much shows that you’re acting like a bit of a hypocrite when you accuse others in this thread of flaming when they haven’t seriously done so like you have. Whatever happens in other threads stays there as far as I am concerned. Remy and Darkstorm have kept their cool for the most part. Why haven’t you?

The fairly arrogant comment implying that Darkstorm was a ‘member of the advent street fighter church’. Something along those lines.

Don’t drag this into foreign waters, Sado. I’m talking about his ability to break bones, not to punch and break a cyborg’s jaw. Putting the two in juxtaposition to each other is completely pointless. It’s like comparing apples to oranges. Breaking bones is not necessarily a show of strength alone, by any means. Same thing with the cyborg vs. huge boulder. We don’t know how strong this particular cyborg that Ken faced would be considered in the world of Tekken so why assume anything?

Comparing Paul’s strength to Ken’s is again, useless, Sado. We already know that Ken’s strength does not match Paul’s. Why do you bring it up in these circumstances? I shouldn’t have to remind you that we are talking about Ken here. Not Paul, Ken. And his ability to break bones.
You’re asking why I say that you’re biased, this is why. It’s almost starting to sound like, to me, that you’re bragging about Paul’s abilities. Repeating old arguments is not going to make other arguments any truer.

You took my statement out of context too, assuming it literally when it should have been very clear that it was a random example based to explain how faulty your statement for proof was. Read my posts more carefully next time, as you did not appear to understand the first. Or second, for that matter.

~Sado

Originally posted by brainchild81
😆 Ya'll gotta chill the f*ck out. & I make fun of Terry far more than you do Sado 😠

Shoots Brainchild rifle

Then procceds to blow him upblow

Then visits BC's Grave rip

Emotion after leaving BC's grave clapping

😈

Originally posted by Sado22
you are the one who isn't getting it. go back to my point again, DarkC. I asked you three simple things:[/

Two words: they don’t.

The thing that’s faulty with your logic right now is that you’re using the reasoning that simply because it has not been shown as such, that it either cannot be achieved, or should not be counted as a factor in the actual fight. I could use this same reasoning to say, as an example, decide that simply because Paul has not been seen to pick up a rock and hurl it at a wall means that he cannot do and should not be considered to do so.

See how silly this reasoning is of yours? Precisely.

Originally posted by Sado22
-has he done it?

See, even if Paul didn’t have his bone-breaking holds that he has displayed in the Tekken series, I wouldn’t doubt it for a second if you claimed that he could do such thing.

If it was something no normal human being could do, like jumping fifty feet into the air or something, then I’d let it go. But this is not about fireballs or flaming punches or such, this is a simple real-world matter of the breaking of someone else’s bones. People without training, such as me, can physically do such.

Originally posted by Sado22
-has he shown the strength to do it?

What, precisely, in the strength of his character makes you believe that he is either incapable or uncertain that he possesses the ability and power to be able to break someone else’s bones? He’s shown far greater strength than an average human being does and if an average human begin can break another’s bones, Ken should have the strength to do so.

Originally posted by Sado22
-is it in his movelist?

See, the thing about move-lists is that despite no matter how developers try and tweak them or add more, the fact still remains that they’re limited to what the machine or memory can hold, hence the concept of game restrictions. Saying that it isn’t in his move-list, by no means whatsoever, proves that he cannot do it.

Refer to the Paul hurling a rock example above to see what I mean. I’m assuming this is a fight without the restrictions of games, where they can use whatever physical fighting skill they can bring to the table, including. I don’t care if it includes biting, scratching, shoving, even a kick in the junk. It takes very little knowledge to smash someone’s elbow to smithereens or to torque a wrist until it snaps. Another example just for the heck of it: does the fact that Morrigan never kicks someone in the junk in her move-list means that she cannot do it? No. This is what I’ve been continuing to explain and probably will have to again. It’s not a relatively hard thing to understand, Sado.

Originally posted by Sado22
answer for all three is no.

You listing all three things, they’re all glaring examples of logical fallacy. They don’t prove or mean anything. Congratulations, you’ve just proved that:

1.) Ken has never broken someone else’s bones.
2.) Ken does not have a bone breaking move in his move list.

Which is pretty much what you’ve been repeating this whole time, isn’t it?
It’s a mantra right now with no meaning save to show that he has not been seen to do it, which pretty much means squat. It doesn’t mean that he can’t.

You haven’t shown me or provided me with a good reason why you believe that his strength is lacking to break someone else’s bones. He’s neither as strong as Paul nor weak. He’s faster than Marshall and Forrest Law and slightly stronger, and both father and son has the capacity to beat Paul in a fair, one on one match.

Originally posted by Sado22
he has never broken anyone's bones with either a blow or a throw. he has never shown the ability to do so in any of his endings since his blows have never been shown to be particularly strong

Are you aware that if you see all of his blows and sprites, none of them aim to break a bone in the first place? Do you see him attempting to kick a major joint or something along those lines? No. Your strength argument is moot. Even if you don’t consider him strong, even if he is not strong as Paul, he can still break bones.

Ordinary men and woman possess the strength to do so, why not Ken?

Originally posted by Sado22
at best, it was his ultimate power up shoryuken with the last ounces of his willpower and all of his effort but behind it in the SFA anime and at the end all that did was dislocate the robot's jaw.

Originally posted by Sado22
[b] at a normal level its obvious that he wouldn't have even scratched it. hence as far as his blows go, no he hasn't shown any power to break bones. THIS is what my point has been besides throws/holds.[b/]

Your point here is very flawed, simply because he has not been seen to break bones in his abilities does not mean that it is without from his abilities, does it? As I said previously, many times, it proves nothing other than the fact that he’s never done it. Nothing else implied.

Originally posted by Sado22
Ken's power showings haven't been great. Paul on the other hand has shown to break boulders, break stonewalls and cement walls (and KO a bear) with his punches. And we both know bones aren't stronger than cement or rock. Do you understand me now?

I know that Paul is stronger than Ken. Other than that you’re not bringing anything new to the table here, you’re repeating characteristics of Paul that accentuate his strength over and over again, so much that it’s starting to border upon cliché. It’s not doing anything here, we’re not talking about Paul’s strength at all anymore. I’m talking about Ken’s abilities. Not Paul, Ken. To break bones. And he has the strength to do so.

Originally posted by Sado22
no offense but claiming that you can break bones because you saw Jetli doing it in a movie is little lame. real fighting is a little different.

Keeping that aside.

I’ve practiced on my friends sometimes just to show them but never followed through, otherwise I would have snapped their elbow, popped their shoulder out of its socket, etc. The point being, I possess the physical strength to be able to do something like that.

My business is my own, thanks.

Originally posted by Sado22
Ken can't break bones with his blows. I've made that much clear to you.

Originally posted by Sado22
aside from that, I think Ken'd be pretty stupid to try and out grapple a Judo fighter who is more experienced and seasoned.

I never said anything about him having superior grapples to Paul. Ken has some but they’re not as good. Why do you bring this up? This is like Darkstorm bringing up Duke Nukem, again and again and again when I’m trying to discuss Master Chief’s abilities and Master Chief’s abilities only.

Only this time it’s even more bothersome, because I have had to repeat myself a lot more, even on a matter where you are so clearly wrong.

Originally posted by Sado22
what makes it different is that he is up against a man who can not only break bones with his blows but also with better grapples. A lot of Paul's throws are technically superior. Many of his throws are pretty complex and for a non-judo fighter it'd be hard. Not to mention that Shotokan has no elements of Judo in it. So evevn if he can break bones with holds the odds of them being superior to Paul's is next to none.

I did not say anything about Paul doing so, what he’d do in a fight, what his abilities are, etc.
It beats me why you choose to bring him up at this moment.

We. Are. Talking. About. Ken!

Originally posted by Sado22
fine, granted.
but i've made it clear regarding the blows and teh difference in their ability as grapplers/throwers.

You continue spouting on, nose in handbook, about Paul being superior in his grapples/throws/etc and his feats of strength, when it’s very clear that I’m focusing on someone else.

Originally posted by Sado22
so wait: he sees the poster of himself and sees people training....and magically goes back to his old self.

Of course not, Sado. What, is this making fun of me? I’ve already explained the circumstances and events regarding that so called ‘non-canon’ ending of Paul’s. He spends his days and nights partying and enjoying himself, forgetting what it was like to fight, forgetting what it was like to be revered as he was. He gets tired of this kind of lifestyle, then sees the dojo and his poster and remembers.

Originally posted by Sado22
And am i to believe that it had nothing to do with his fighter's pride?

I didn’t say that it was nothing to do with his fighter’s pride. It was a very big part of it, I acceded to that before in my previous statement, that described circumstances surrounding him at the time. However, it wasn’t everything having to do with his return to the fight. He also grew tired of his life and living it as was, despite the lavishness that was included with it. It happens.

Originally posted by Sado22
Fighter's pride IS what brings you back for more, bud.
It wasn't boredom. He was clearly having an epiphany. It wasn't about boredom at all.

That means it’s entirely crushed, Sado. No trace. Technically he wasn’t having an epiphany at all, it said he was living a life of depravity. And yes, he grew tired of the life he was currently living. Hence, the boredom bit.

Originally posted by Sado22
"nothing of his valiant spirit remained" is exactly what he realized.

How can you realize something if you don’t recognize it in the first place?

Originally posted by Sado22
and he didn't go back to fighting because of boredom. He realized that what he was doing was NOT what he truly was. What was a he really: he was a fighter.

Fighting spirit is part of it, boredom another. As I said before.

Originally posted by Sado22
i said he hasn't lived in poverty. you said it yourself..."he has never lived in poverty". that is my point. so we both agree. so why put words in my mouth regarding comfort. did i say he lived in comfort? NO.

Ken is a spoilt brat

Why, you just contradicted yourself, did you not? Why is he spoiled, simply because he is rich?

Like I said, I know the semantics game. The only people who’ve used it in my experience are those who reply just for the sake of replying, which whether you deny it or not, you’re mostly doing right now. Take a look at my ‘out of context’ reminders above if you want a reason why.

Originally posted by Sado22
Ken is a spoilt brat. this is actually an official reason why Guile doesn't like Ken.

Originally posted by Sado22
[b]Ken is a flirt and a lavish spender.

Being a flirt I’ll agree with. ‘Flirtatious’ isn’t a synonym of ‘spoilt’, as far as I can tell. No point in bringing it up. People of all kind can flirt, what makes him different to be distinguished as a brat or a spoilt one from this as one of his characteristics?

A lavish spender? Prove that to me. I’ve just read the Tiamat Canon guide on Ken and nothing in there confirms that he’s a lavish spender.
[quote]Originally posted by Sado22
He has been shown flirting with women well into his 30's despite being married and having a child.

Obviously he’s a flirt, but you cannot attribute flirtatiousness to either spoilt or being a brat.

Originally posted by Sado22
As for Ken settling for basics...stop making assumptions.

Excerpt from Tiamat’s guide:

Ken has a family life, but he continues to practice and train, too. He's still training Sean and his son. And of course, Ken's rivalry with Ryu continues. Can he keep up despite having an actual life to handle, too?

Sounds fairly average to me, don’t you think? If not, fine, show me otherwise.

Originally posted by Sado22
you know when two people start telliing you that you're being biased in your "pointing fingers" you may want to give it a thought.

I’m not biased here, I didn’t focus on you first and simply jump to a conclusion without observing first, and completely singling you out afterwards. You say something I disagree with, I reply. It’s that simple. Remy and Darkstorm, they’re not partaking in our side of the argument and you’ve seen me put them in a black light once or twice.

Originally posted by Sado22
demoncially fast....now who is overhyping, Dark C.

Would it have helped if I said blessedly? Devilishly? Insanely? Incredibly?
The thing remains: Ken is fast enough that he can kick as fast as a semi-automatic pistol can fire.

My choice of diction is my business, Sado. Not yours. Try not to be so trigger happy as to start randomly hurling accusations at the silliest things. Choice of wording, indeed.

Originally posted by Sado22
also i hope you're not using Marvel VS Capcom or any of the versus fighters because they aren't (guess) Canon.

Even if you’re not technically jumping to conclusions here, I’ll still remind you not to since you’re pretty much accusing, in disguise, of me using outside sources.

Originally posted by Sado22
please don't lecture me in fights.

Like my so called ‘preaching’ earlier, if you don’t like it…hey, not my problem.

Originally posted by Sado22
All i am saying his experience counts. AGAIN

Subjective things do not matter in the long run. How many times, not just in Street Fighter or Tekken, have you heard of someone with many years of experience being beat by a rookie?

Originally posted by Sado22
i didn't say its everything so stop right there. as for the rest:

I never said, implied, or accused you of saying something like that. Hell, I didn’t even say the word ‘everything’ in that passage as far as I read it.

It doesn’t do to try and jump down my back every remote chance you get.

Originally posted by Sado22
but paul has more experience and has fought Forest and Martial Law who are not only fast but are also agile and nimble on their feet...more so than Ken thanks to their multiple flips, leaps etc.

As to whether or not they’re faster than Ken, well…let’s watch some comparison first. It’s pretty clear a long time ago though that bias is clouding your judgement, regarding certain matters. This is one of them.
KEN MASTERS
YouTube video
MARSHALL LAW
YouTube video

On average I’d say Ken about maybe the same as Law (Ken’s lower leg jab is the same as Law’s straight kick barrage thing), but when they start executing combos (or in this case, Ken’s Shinryuken and Shippu-Jinrai-Kyaku) it’s clear that Ken beats Law by a country kilometer in speed doing so.

Originally posted by Sado22
absurd reasoning?

Ken possesses great strength, not on par of Paul’s but still excellent. At least, enough to break someone’s bones. You’re attempting to show Ken’s strength to the extent to which it goes. When did it take every ounce of strength in someone’s body to break an opponent’s arm?

The kind of reasoning is just that, Sado. Absurd.

Originally posted by Sado22
not to mention that Ken NEVER send someone "flying".

Taking things to extremes isn’t always a good thing, Sado.

Originally posted by Sado22
and paul can't?

Originally posted by Sado22
and i told you he is shwn breaking a tree.

There are times when it is a good idea to jump straight in and lunge at the very first opportunity.
This is not one of them.

Originally posted by Sado22
and your example was lame.

Even a person with half a wit could tell;
It was meant to be lame. As so you could tell it was not serious, merely an example. Meant entirely to explain a concept.
Nothing else.

Are we clear?

Originally posted by Sado22
you haen't proven anything so far.

No, I’m not proving anything, mainly because I’m not actually trying to prove anything, I’m explaining why Ken is able to break another person’s arm from what normal people can do and how your reasoning is very flawed.

Originally posted by Sado22
don't flatter yourself.

Overreacting, yet again.

Oh, and don’t patronize me. Thanks.

Originally posted by Sado22
are you done stating the obvious?

Especially in this one, since you’ve said the same thing as I did some distance above. See:

-Ken is fast but not as strong
-Paul is powerful but not as fast

Oh, the irony.

Originally posted by Sado22
and i've given reasons time and time again. FOR BOTH.

You didn’t even say anything even remotely resembling, ‘With all due respect to Ryu’.

All that besides, you’ve established yourself as an advocator of the Tekken world.

Originally posted by Sado22
and i am right. Ken's known fights are:

Originally posted by Sado22
so tell me: was ANY of what i said wrong? the fighters he's fought are never named.

people, please. ken is a THREE time US champ.

‘Not much of an accomplishment there’, according to you. That’s plain and clear as the day, you are downplaying Ken. Why does fighting and winning a tournament with competition against unnamed or unrecognized fighters not merit as a good accomplishment?

It doesn’t mean that it’s easy to take them on.

Originally posted by Sado22
And you know DarkC, it would have really helped if you did some more "looking around" in these forums before coming out here and pointing fingers at me (and you are).

I replied first to you, but it was not a straight jumping-down-your-throat matter like Remy has done sometimes. And I told you more than once, I do read. And so far you still haven’t convinced me why you’re justified in acting incredibly rude towards Fortress or Remy when they’ve behaved themselves in this thread. What happens in other threads does not matter.

Perhaps you might recall the dressing down I gave FortressXRuler earlier? Why did you conveniently forget about this incident and act like the injured puppy?

Originally posted by Sado22
Since day one you have been criticzing practically EVERYTHING that i post or even imply (only i dont) while Darkstorm, Remy and others walk away scott free.

You rightly deserved these criticisms from me from what I saw, otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered slapping them on you in the first place. And I barely replied to you at all before starting this debate with you anyways.

Others don’t walk away ‘scott-free’. I’ve mentioned both Remy and Darkstorm in derogatory manners already, how is this giving them a clean sheet? Also, refer to above reply.

Originally posted by Sado22
it would have helped if you actually went to some of Ryu-Kazuya or Ryu-Jin threads and read what i posted there. But no...you just come out of the blue, see me arguing with Darkstorm and attempt to "cleanse" me of my sins without knowing the whole score.

See, if Remy and Darkstorm had come into this thread and started being rude right back to you then I wouldn’t start pointing fingers at you only. It’s only when you started whining about being the one everybody picks on that I decided to offer my two cents. I did.

The thing about this is that I state what I see, other threads do not matter. They may have stupidly shot their mouths off but they’re not doing it so much in here at least. You are, and that’s why I single you out. If they can behave themselves regarding past circumstances, you should be able to. Attempting to use a circumstantial attack as justification is no excuse at all.

Originally posted by Sado22
Please. next time around do your homework before you decide to do me a service.
and again,

Do you a service? I didn’t step in there of my own accord, you were asking a question directed at pretty much everyone who was reading the thread? I’m not doing you a service, I answered your question and provided my reasoning.

Originally posted by Sado22
i'm not the only one who thinks that way. Superboy thinks taht way too.

I don’t care what Superboy or anyone else thinks, it’s their opinion, not mine. They’re entitled to it, but so am I to my own.

Originally posted by Sado22
and wikipedia is a very unreliable source since up to anyone can write there. just thought i'd point it out.

Another thing: Are you aware that the pages regarding Street Fighter and its characters are regularly checked over by Capcom employees? Same thing with Blizzard Entertainment with World of Warcraft and Bungie with Halo, they all look if any changes are made and if yes, that they are legitimate ones.

Originally posted by Sado22
yes, yes i know the principals of Judo. and you missed my point by a mile as usual. Tekken universe doesn't ignore gravity etc. which is why kazuya didn't go flying upwards when Hachi dropped him in the trench.

Physics isn’t a fickle thing, Sado, it’s either there or it’s not.

Originally posted by Sado22
what i am saying is that the principals of phsyics don't govern the fighter's feats as they would in the real world.

Physics is what makes Paul so crazy strong, Law so rush fast. Get what I am saying?

Originally posted by Sado22
Falling off cliffs and living, being burt etc.

Extremely flawed reasoning here. Physics is still important, despite the feats achieved by other characters, not Paul.

Originally posted by Sado22
wait. a man being caught in an explosion and not being dismemebred, being blow sky high, smack into a grave, being stuck in a grave for more than two months without food or medical attention digs his way out of the grave and has no scars at all and is not even burnt is following physics?

I don’t care what Heihachi has gone through or what his son or grandson has gone through either. See, if they were completely normal human beings and survived what the all-powerful Minshimas have gone through then that would be pretty inconsistent. However, we are agreed that they are not human beings. Heihachi even acknowledged the fact that they were crazy-powerful by throwing Kazuya down a cliff and claiming that if he were truly his son he would survive the fall.

Originally posted by Sado22
if you can fathom what i'm saying here only then do i see any point in continuing on this.
so tell me. do you understand what I am saying?

However, your reasoning isn’t on the same page as your point, it’s not even in the same chapter. It’s a false cause and a different one altogether.

Originally posted by Sado22
physics would matter in a real fight, yes. but not in a videogame where aside from erupting flames from the fist they fall from cliffs etc and don't even get scarred.

Like I said, they still govern how the fight works in every bit, special moves included. Because some person has electricity to control at will or flames shooting out of their fist does not mean that their physical moves themselves are free of Newtonian physics.

Originally posted by Sado22
please. read my paragraph above before you call me hypcocrite or what not. do your homework before you press charges against someone.

I’ve told you time and time again that I don’t bother calling someone a hypocrite unless they deserve it, which you have.

See above for two examples of hypocrisy I’ve seen you commit.
“Do my homework”, indeed!

Originally posted by Sado22
the fairly poking comment at the fanboys claiming that SF is on a totally different level than Tekken. Again...do your homework.

It’s one thing to call them a fanboy, it’s another to imply that they do it with a near religious zealotry. Remy’s probably what you described, but Darkstorm I see took that stupid (yes, it was a remarkably stupid thing to say) comment of yours rather nastily. Do they accuse you of such thing? No. They told you that you were underrating Ken (which you took the wrong way and which was true anyway).

Originally posted by Sado22
the cyborg wasn't made of bullet proof armor.
the Jack4's that attacked Kaz and Hachi were.

Am I supposed to be impressed that people who can survive being blown up and getting thrown down a cliff can handily take on a bunch of huge ape-like cyborgs with bulletproof armor? Honestly, am I?

Originally posted by Sado22
Paul and Kazuya are more or less even since Paul and he tied back before Tekken1 and Kazuya only barely managed to beat him in Tekken1.

Paul may be strong, but I really doubt he can survive being thrown into a cliff or getting blown up by Jack-4’s.

Originally posted by Sado22
god...look. I am bringing it up because for some reason people seem to be assuming that ken's blows are stronger.

What’s this supposed to exemplify, that Paul is stronger? Well congratulations, what else is new?

Originally posted by Sado22
Remy's said it time and time again. not only do i NOT see you correcting him

What, do I need to officially correct Remy to complete my alteration on the path to enlightenment? Saying that I agree that Paul is stronger repeatedly is not enough, apparently. Would it stroke your ego or something if I did tell Remy off? I don’t need to publicly address something someone else said to come to a point, Sado.

Originally posted by Sado22
but now to make it worse you're claiming that i'm dredging it up again to repeat old arguments etc.

If you weren’t, I wouldn’t have to repeat myself so many times that I agree that Paul is stronger. Yet you keep bringing it up as if it mattered to which I am discussing at hand. Paul’s strength has absolutely nothing to do with Ken’s ability to break someone else’s bones.

What, you want in fancy curlicue writing and an official signature from me? Would that make you stop dragging up a subject already on it’s way into foreign waters?

Originally posted by Sado22
why i brought it up was because i asked you whether ken has shown the "power to break bones"

Absolutely false reasoning.

Originally posted by Sado22
i obviously meant his punches that are apparently sending people flying. Do you understand now?

See the video I posted above. It’s as plain as the skin on one’s face.

Originally posted by Sado22
you're one to talk.
2 pages later and you've still missed the point of almost everything i said.

I’ve made it clear why your reasoning above is false. Repeatedly.
I’ve had to repeat myself on reminding you what subject we are currently discussing.
I’ve had to tell you that a certain factor that you keep bringing up has nothing to do with what I’m trying to bring up. Repeatedly.

It’s like I flew a 767 straight over your head, Sado.

Originally posted by Sado22
on top of all that you take everything in the wrong light

“Everything” is a little extreme. If you’re going to say something like that, tell me at least why, where, and when like I’ve been doing with my accusations, instead of throwing wild, whiny generalizations out from nowhere.

Originally posted by Sado22
and blame and criticise me for practically everything wrong in this thread.

I blame some things. You just put it in a plural hyperbole.
Overreacting is good in movies, Sado, not in debates.

Sado can be very stubborn. That's why we love him durfist

Wow, I'm not bothering to read all that. It has turned into Rugal Bernstein vs. Ryu Hayabusa, haha.

man.....what the hell is that reply?! do i have to read ALL of that?! 🙁

DarkC and C-Master are very persistent debators, kind of like myself a few months ago.

I wish I could do something like that with you some day Sado. To the Siegfried vs. Guts thread! 😄

DarkC, your replies are giving me a headache. I am going to narrow everything down so that we don't go around in circles and i'm going to state my points in concise sentences and avoid any confusion.
so...lets start over again:
-we are NOT talking about Ken alone. Paul is in the picture too.
-I am not saying Ken can't break bones with locks and what not (and i'll admit that it was slightly unclear on it)
-i am talking specifically of him breaking bones through punches and kicks.
-We can assume Paul can since he has shattered walls and boulders all of which stronger and tougher than human bones.
-regular people cannot break bones with their blows (and i am not talking about blows on joints. Just blows. like a punch on the ribs, punch on the face, punch on the chest etc.). ANd i DO mean ONE BLOW.
-in fact the EVEN HEAVY weight boxers have not been able to do it on a regular basis. The most that has ever been done in a match was break ribs, jaws and cause fractures and only after repeated blows to that body part. and these are NOT normal people. Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano are one of the very few people who have actually broken bones in bouts. both of them are one of the strongest punchers of all time. Guess what? neither ever broke a bone unless they hit it repeatedly.
-again to repeat paul can due to breaking down boulders and walls.
-why we don't go around assuming that Ken can is because if a person can perform such a feet it is always mentioned by Capcom. Cody for instance CAN break 50cm thicks walls. its in his profile. Why it is specifically mentioned is because he CAN do it?
-even the tiniest bits of physically impressive feats are mentioned: chunli doing 1000 squats every day, Zangief wrestling with bears, Gouki breaking Ayres rock etc. etc. etc.
-besides all this, if Ken CAN do it, its not something to bet on since he's up against a superior grappler and employer of holds.
-AGAIN I CANNOT SPECIFY ANY MORE, that aside from holds and throws i am talking SPECIFICALLY of punches strong enough to shatter bones on impact. i can't make it more clear. and as stated Ken can't for reasons already mentioned.
-the part where i mentioned the Cyborg's jaw was in response to your mentioning "no one in tekken could" or something like that hence i brought up Kazy and his raping over the Jacks with one punch each. it was not to bring up Paul or whatever it is that you mutated that into.

No, it’s a matter of opinion. Trying to capitalize on a single nonimportant adjective that I used to describe what I think of Ken’s speed?

oh and you better start considering it "your problem" when more than one person points that you are in error in something. at the very least you can ponder over it.

as for blaming me for everything, lets see:
-you claim taht people are flaming in this threat and the first person you bring to light is ore-sama
-you claim that reasonings are flawed, and once again you bring me into it.
-you then claim people are overreacting and becoming too personal, and drag me into it AGAIN

that is practically everything wrong with this threat in your eyes and guess what? my name is attached to all three of them.

It was meant to be lame. As so you could tell it was not serious, merely an example. Meant entirely to explain a concept.Nothing else.

and correct me if i am wrong, but aren't you implying that i am stupid? is it not a flame? who is playing the semantics game now?
behind all that selfrighteousness, you need to fix a lot of things...particularly the double standards.
let me guess here.............you are an aquarius right? Born somewhere in Feb?🙂

to be contd

...I still blame all of this on FortressXRuler

Because of the fact that Wikipedia is a place that anyone can write on does not automatically make it unreliable as a source. At times, yes, but it’s usually the people who actually know what the hell they are talking about when they edit something.

Another thing: Are you aware that the pages regarding Street Fighter and its characters are regularly checked over by Capcom employees? Same thing with Blizzard Entertainment with World of Warcraft and Bungie with Halo, they all look if any changes are made and if yes, that they are legitimate ones.

It’s another example of a false cause, Sado. You’re claiming that the concept of Newtonian physics aren’t present in some cases simply because of the feats of a few individuals?
Physics isn’t a fickle thing, Sado, it’s either there or it’s not.

oh and just thought i'd point this out: i've broken neck after falling from a high place on a particular angle..............and i am typing here, talking to you and living a normal life. just something for you to ponder over.

not to mention that Paul is a refined warrior and i'm sure, if ken can know how to break bones without him ever showing it, then Paul can roll with a fall🙂

Yes they do, Sado, in every bit and everything that’s plain and physical, ki-usage moves aside. Punches, dodges, throws, grapples, kicks, whatever.
They all use concepts of physics such as what I described earlier, force momentum, etc.
Physics is what makes Paul so crazy strong, Law so rush fast. Get what I am saying?

You’re talking about a few individuals here, Sado, and what they did. They’re still following physics. Because they survived getting thrown into a cliff and other things that would have readily killed another human beings does not mean that they are free from the laws governing Newtonian physics. What does that prove? That they’re impossibly tough, not that they are defying physics. They’re still enveloped to it and bound to follow its rules in a fight.

Ah, another one of these “I didn’t do it” rants?

It’s one thing to call them a fanboy, it’s another to imply that they do it with a near religious zealotry. Remy’s probably what you described, but Darkstorm I see took that stupid (yes, it was a remarkably stupid thing to say) comment of yours rather nastily. Do they accuse you of such thing? No. They told you that you were underrating Ken (which you took the wrong way and which was true anyway).

oh and ONE LAST THING.
Hachi is a NORMAL PERSON. he has no bloodline and no devil powers. wanna talk of physics now?

~Sado

*sigh*

Originally posted by Sado22
DarkC, your replies are giving me a headache. I am going to narrow everything down so that we don't go around in circles and i'm going to state my points in concise sentences and avoid any confusion.
so...lets start over again:
-we are NOT talking about Ken alone. Paul is in the picture too.
-I am not saying Ken can't break bones with locks and what not (and i'll admit that it was slightly unclear on it)
-i am talking specifically of him breaking bones through punches and kicks.
-We can assume Paul can since he has shattered walls and boulders all of which stronger and tougher than human bones.
-regular people cannot break bones with their blows (and i am not talking about blows on joints. Just blows. like a punch on the ribs, punch on the face, punch on the chest etc.). ANd i DO mean ONE BLOW.
-in fact the EVEN HEAVY weight boxers have not been able to do it on a regular basis. The most that has ever been done in a match was break ribs, jaws and cause fractures and only after repeated blows to that body part. and these are NOT normal people. Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano are one of the very few people who have actually broken bones in bouts. both of them are one of the strongest punchers of all time. Guess what? neither ever broke a bone unless they hit it repeatedly.
-again to repeat paul can due to breaking down boulders and walls.
-why we don't go around assuming that Ken can is because if a person can perform such a feet it is always mentioned by Capcom. Cody for instance CAN break 50cm thicks walls. its in his profile. Why it is specifically mentioned is because he CAN do it?
-even the tiniest bits of physically impressive feats are mentioned: chunli doing 1000 squats every day, Zangief wrestling with bears, Gouki breaking Ayres rock etc. etc. etc.
-besides all this, if Ken CAN do it, its not something to bet on since he's up against a superior grappler and employer of holds.
-AGAIN I CANNOT SPECIFY ANY MORE, that aside from holds and throws i am talking SPECIFICALLY of punches strong enough to shatter bones on impact. i can't make it more clear. and as stated Ken can't for reasons already mentioned.
-the part where i mentioned the Cyborg's jaw was in response to your mentioning "no one in tekken could" or something like that hence i brought up Kazy and his raping over the Jacks with one punch each. it was not to bring up Paul or whatever it is that you mutated that into.

you exaggerate and when i point out where you are wrong...,wham! NOW it is now merely "personal opinion".
and if what i did is "capitalizing on a single nonimportant adjective" what the hell have you been doing since day one?

oh and you better start considering it "your problem" when more than one person points that you are in error in something. at the very least you can ponder over it.

as for blaming me for everything, lets see:
-you claim taht people are flaming in this threat and the first person you bring to light is ore-sama
-you claim that reasonings are flawed, and once again you bring me into it.
-you then claim people are overreacting and becoming too personal, and drag me into it AGAIN

that is practically everything wrong with this threat in your eyes and guess what? my name is attached to all three of them.

assumptions? dear god...did you just assume?
well, congrads DC, i have ASSUMED that you were new since i never saw you (reasonable really). unfortunately i was wrong. and so are you.
so what is this: a hasty generalization? or lame reasoning? or utter nonsense?
no it isn't. you do it too, but call it loads of things when other do it.
now you can moan and cry about me saying @$$ and try to associate all the bull you've been associating with everything else here.

and correct me if i am wrong, but aren't you implying that i am stupid? is it not a flame? who is playing the semantics game now?
behind all that selfrighteousness, you need to fix a lot of things...particularly the double standards.
let me guess here.............you are an aquarius right? Born somewhere in Feb?🙂

to be contd

some of the stuff listed on wikipedia has been wrong as hell:
-ryo defeating terry
-ryu defating akuma
-ryu being half german
-iori being gay (not kidding!)
-ryu winning all three SF tournaments
unreliable is when something loses its credibility. with these posts there wiki has losts its credibility.

yes....i am. but it didn't stop many of those errors to pop up did it?

*senior level student in Electrical Engineering*
please don't lecuter me about "newtonian physics" okay? thanx.
once again i'm not doing whatever it is that you're saying. what i am saying is that phyics loses it impact in a videogame where people do impossible things like flying, burning their fists in flames, smacking boulders to bits. its like bringing up the concepts of physics for an anime or something like that.
to sum it up:
-if paul falls on his back from really high, no he wont die.
-if paul falls on his neck at a particularly angle that would break his neck, yes he will die. most probably anyway.

oh and just thought i'd point this out: i've broken neck after falling from a high place on a particular angle..............and i am typing here, talking to you and living a normal life. just something for you to ponder over.

not to mention that Paul is a refined warrior and i'm sure, if ken can know how to break bones without him ever showing it, then Paul can roll with a fall🙂

yes i do? do you understand what i am saying?
you haven't seen people engulf their hands in flames, or defeat bears, or crash through walls or shatter bullet proof armor with their fists, or be smashed in the ground and bounce back up or fall into ravines and not even suffer any bone damage have you?
THAT is what i've been saying. look back...i already acknowledged that physics applies just not in the same way as we expect it to work in REAL life.

exactly what i said before.

its explanation. like what you did when sonic or whatever called you an *******. we all do it.

and here you are...blaming me for underestimating ken. so lets see:
-i defend Paul from lame accusations directly after a thread that you didn't go to
-i am accused of underestimating and offer explanation
-but my explanation are false because YOU think its a "i didn't do it" rant.
read over my explaination again and PROOVE to me that i did it.

oh and ONE LAST THING.
Hachi is a NORMAL PERSON. he has no bloodline and no devil powers. wanna talk of physics now?

~Sado

I AM REPLYING GUILTY QUEER!!!!
😠

~Sado

HOMO22! DO NOT CALL ME GUILTY QUEER!!!!
😠

*Takes out 7 foot zweihanger and engages Sado in combat*

starwars