Doomsday vs Thanos

and we're WAY off topic. without bfr i still don't see any easy way for thanos to win this fight. if you think thanos=darkseid, thanos loses. thanos needs to be a LOT more powerful than darkseid, imo, for him to be able to win this.

personally, i don't see him being a lot more powerful, though recently (the avatar theory aside) i would give the slight nod in displayed power to thanos. but i don't think the difference is big enough to say thanos definitely wins this. in a straight 1on1 cell-type battle, i still lean to h/p dd.

Originally posted by leonidas
and we're WAY off topic. without bfr i still don't see any easy way for thanos to win this fight. if you think thanos=darkseid, thanos loses. thanos needs to be a LOT more powerful than darkseid, imo, for him to be able to win this.

personally, i don't see him being a lot more powerful, though recently (the avatar theory aside) i would give the slight nod in displayed power to thanos. but i don't think the difference is big enough to say thanos definitely wins this. in a straight 1on1 cell-type battle, i still lean to h/p dd.

Avatar theory aside? how is it a theory when it's what happened? It's a fact.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos has battlefield removal options, though it would be fairly uncommon for him to incorporate them.
Other than runnin and hiding or teleporting Doomsday away, Doomsday smashes him up.

I have alsways believed in the evidence for Avatars.

Originally posted by llagrok
Avatar theory aside? how is it a theory when it's what happened? It's a fact.

didn't say I never believed it. 😉

it's just a little convenient is my only problem with the idea, and it makes debating darkseid VERY difficult since (a) we don't know how powerful his 'true' form is, and (b) it has also been said that in his 'true' form he cannot be beaten on the physical plane. 😬

but then thanos gets upgraded every 3 issues or so, and all his bad showings are retconned to clones, so really, why should i complain? 🙂

Originally posted by cyber tuff guy!
I have alsways believed in the evidence for Avatars.

you strike me as an intelligent lad. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
which is one other reason why thanos sucks so hard . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
nah, the scene i'm talking about happened WELL before the gds. i've posted it in some threads a while back. this was when ds was raping pantheons and stealing their power. gds feats should be fine imo, but either way, i've not mentioned anything from that arc.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're nitpicking, nor do i see galactus being any more or less vulnerable to a speculatory hyperspace blast than he would be to a cosmic blast. do you have proof g is more vulnerable to hyperspatial power? 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
nevertheless, tech's not inherent power. and i've no problem agreeing to disagree. the art/colour of galactus speaks pretty clearly to me that SOMETHING happened to him, (unless you think the colouring was an accident or something). just WHAT it meant is open to interpretation, but given the nature of the OE and given what ds was trying to do, it seems logical to assume he was at least partially affected by the blast to me.

And I honestly always took it to mean absolutely nothing. Think about it, if someone throws fireballs that explode on contact and they use them against someone who's completely unphased by the power of the attack, their still going to explode and give the exact same visual effect it's just that in the aftermath the person hit wouldn't be damaged. I think the OE was TRYING to do its thing(with the color effect being the equivalent of the exploding flame effect), it just that when the dust cleared Big G was unharmed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You may not like the character, but there's no denying the power. And in the next part of your post you even confirm that DS had something of a power up himself(in the form of his stealing the power away from nameless pantheons) so I don't know how you can consider DS any better.

killing gods and TAKING their power is a lot different from the editors saying -- he's not tough enough, let's float out some crap that will give him even more power. and if THE END is non-canon (which the editors say it is) then the most recent power-up is non-existent anyway. 😬

Cool, what issue/arc is it from so I can check it out(I've been studying up of DS as of late)?

i'll need to check. near the start of the first vol of new gods i think.

How am I nitpicking? Galactus and the Celestials are both cosmic entities who's powers are rooted to Eternity, so if her FF is extra effective against one, then it makes sense for it to be extra effective against the other.

so sue should be able to take out ss or any herald or any being with cosmic energy since cosmic energy is the energy of the universe and hence is rooted in eternity? 😑

nuh-uh, not buying that at all. the celestials it was speculated actually EXIST in the hyperspace realm -- all sue did was was essentially banish the celestial back to its home plane. she did not 'destroy' one which i've heard said once or twice. and since g doesn't exist in that realm, there is no reason whatsoever that her power should have any additional affect on him.

Technically the OE isn't really inherent to DS either to my understanding, it's a gift/theft from the Source, so I still don't see THAT big of a distinction.

darkseid gained the OE buy TAKING it/absorbing it from the infinity pit. it was supposed to be his brother drax's power, but seid sabotaged him and stole it. as far as i know the notion that the OE has any relation to the source is a myth, unless someone has evidence to the contrary. regardless -- the power IS his, inherent in him. it is in no way similar to a tech addition.

And I honestly always took it to mean absolutely nothing. Think about it, if someone throws fireballs that explode on contact and they use them against someone who's completely unphased by the power of the attack, their still going to explode and give the exact same visual effect it's just that in the aftermath the person hit wouldn't be damaged. I think the OE was TRYING to do its thing(with the color effect being the equivalent of the exploding flame effect), it just that when the dust cleared Big G was unharmed.

your perogative. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
killing gods and TAKING their power is a lot different from the editors saying -- he's not tough enough, let's float out some crap that will give him even more power. and if THE END is non-canon (which the editors say it is) then the most recent power-up is non-existent anyway. 😬

i'll need to check. near the start of the first vol of new gods i think.

so sue should be able to take out ss or any herald or any being with cosmic energy since cosmic energy is the energy of the universe and hence is rooted in eternity? 😑

nuh-uh, not buying that at all. the celestials it was speculated actually EXIST in the hyperspace realm -- all sue did was was essentially banish the celestial back to its home plane. she did not 'destroy' one which i've heard said once or twice. and since g doesn't exist in that realm, there is no reason whatsoever that her power should have any additional affect on him.

darkseid gained the OE buy TAKING it/absorbing it from the infinity pit. it was supposed to be his brother drax's power, but seid sabotaged him and stole it. as far as i know the notion that the OE has any relation to the source is a myth, unless someone has evidence to the contrary.

your perogative. 🙂

I forget where i have read it, but DS has commented on his power and orion's astro force. Both coming from the source and how DS power can do many things like grant life while Orion's gift can only destroy. Just my two cents. YOu know I dont know the issue numbers cuz I have bad memory so forgive me.

The god killing happened in continuity. They've mentioned in several of the New Gods volumes, as well as ORION's solo series.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Durability and strength don't always go hand in hand. Often... yes, always...by no stretch of the imagination(just look at Sunspot). You have to remember, Supes durability isn't just based off of his physicality, he's also got his bio field. Lobo doesn't have a bio field that acts as a forcefield to my knowledge. And as I pointed out before, Lobo sustains what Supes would consider serious injurys from less damage than Supes has been shown to withstand many times, it's just that Lobo heals back from it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He didn't deflect the OE, it chased him around and he led it back to DS. But seeing as how DS STILL could've opened that boomtube at any time to BFR Supes into a red sun or something like that, but he didn't. So it still supports his going toe to toe with Supes as being "in character".

Originally posted by darthgoober
Tell you what, if you'd like I can start a Young Justice(minus Secret of course) vs Supes thread and we can see what everyone else thinks about that, because I see Supes blitzing the lot of them. And whether or not she was SUPPOSED to destroy the world is irrelevant, because she was dealt with before she ever demonstrated that level of power.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It doesn't have to be "cheap" in your eyes, it only has to be cheap in the eyes of DS to be applicable.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Being teleported by the OE in no way indicates that he couldn't resist the erasing effect. Thor was able to teleport the Destroyer without to much trouble when he tried, but he still wasn't able to beat him despite the fact that his offesive capabilities came from the same source as his teleportation abilities(his hammer).

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid66/p43f271405bb78d83ae047fd1cf65a746/fbdd46ca.jpg

And here.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid100/p0b61009840e364c381c4570f49b851cb/f9e393e8.jpg

Not only that, but it has worked on the Cyborg and some apokoliptian constructs, when Supes could do jack to them. If you want to see those scans, then I can find them for you?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Unfortunately for you and the rest of DS's fans, his sense of honor is still something that's been established by DC as being a part of his character. I'm no fan of how Surfer fights most of the time either(seeing as how he could kill many of his opponents with little effort if he tried), but my disliking it doesn't change Norrin's outlook on life(and because of that I don't ignore his mentality when I'm discussing him on a thread). That's why I don't give Surfer 10/10 against Supes, because Surfer's mentality limits him. See I'm a fan of the CHARACTER not the powerset, so I have to acknowledge the limitations that he imposes on himself rather than ignore them(as per forum rules).

Originally posted by darthgoober
Being teleported by the OE in no way indicates that he couldn't resist the erasing effect.

As I understand it they are one and the same. When the OE teleports someone it actually erases them first and then retrieves the erased target.

Originally posted by starking
Well it doesn't matter how if you are wrong or right about Lobo, because the point I'm trying to make is Superman SHOULDN'T be able to resist the Oe. It doesn't matter how many times Supes has done it, it was in THREE bad stories that had him doing shit, ridiculous from the beggining. Go read Apokolips now, that one story in Action comics, and Superman/Batman, and tell me if he "appeared" to be as powerful, as he was in his other stories. Meaning Ds being "honorable", is nothing more but speculation, seeing how Seid's character tends to be off most of the time.

But how does that prove, that the avatar was all around more powerful, than Superman? If you can bfr someone, that means nothing to your overall power. Besides, Ds did that when Supes didn't expect it, he basically FLEW into a trap. So I'm going to stay with my original opinion, that the avatar could be stopped by Superman levelers, but the real thing CANNOT.

Ok then, fine. But wouldn't you think that Superboy, Red tornado, and Wonder girl, would give Superman hell, if not defeat him?

Yes, but the problem is, one of those statements was made by him in a Doomsday story(were the characterization was a little off), and another was made by Bryne's Ds, who appeared to be quit inconsistent. The only way we could say if Ds is as honorable of a fighter as you say he is, is to have other sources similar to the statement he made in the Doomsday story.

But why can the Oe work on Agogg, and Orion, and not do the same for Superman? Well it seemed to work just fine here

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid66/p43f271405bb78d83ae047fd1cf65a746/fbdd46ca.jpg

And here.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid100/p0b61009840e364c381c4570f49b851cb/f9e393e8.jpg

Not only that, but it has worked on the Cyborg and some apokoliptian constructs, when Supes could do jack to them. If you want to see those scans, then I can find them for you?

Ds has a sense of honor and there's NO denying that fact. However, Seid isn't so foolish to let his pride get in his way. Meaning you only assume Ds holds back his "exotic abilities", by looking at ONE story from the Doomsday annual, and ONE statement where he didn't even IMPLY, he was holding back. So no, whenever Ds lost to Supes in Apokolips now, Action comics(Bryne's and the other one), and Superman and Batman, it wasn't because he was going easy on Superman, but because he wasn't that powerful to begin with, in those stories. Which is fine with me, seeing how Darkseid has bunch of different feats that makes up for those portrayals. Btw, if bloodlust is a forum rule, how can you debate against it? Don't you think debating on a character's FULL potential, is little more interesting than debating on how he/she uses their abilities?

THe OE also worked on the infinity Man. Infinity Man>>Superman any day of the week.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
As I understand it they are one and the same. When the OE teleports someone it actually erases them first and then retrieves the erased target.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I forget where i have read it, but DS has commented on his power and orion's astro force. Both coming from the source and how DS power can do many things like grant life while Orion's gift can only destroy. Just my two cents. YOu know I dont know the issue numbers cuz I have bad memory so forgive me.

i would love to read that. as i said, i've never SEEN anything to confirm it though. 😬

Originally posted by Juntai
The god killing happened in continuity. They've mentioned in several of the New Gods volumes, as well as ORION's solo series.

you're right, jun. THAT's where we see ds killing some nameless gods. i said new gods showed it, but i think it was in ORION. good catch. 🙂

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
As I understand it they are one and the same. When the OE teleports someone it actually erases them first and then retrieves the erased target.

👆

Originally posted by leonidas

you're right, jun. THAT's where we see ds killing some nameless gods. i said new gods showed it, but i think it was in ORION. good catch. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas

you're right, jun. THAT's where we see ds killing some nameless gods. i said new gods showed it, but i think it was in ORION. good catch. 🙂

He did it in the Godwave saga. Genesis?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He did it in the Godwave saga. Genesis?

maybe, but jun referenced the scene the was speaking directly about.

Originally posted by leonidas
killing gods and TAKING their power is a lot different from the editors saying -- he's not tough enough, let's float out some crap that will give him even more power. and if THE END is non-canon (which the editors say it is) then the most recent power-up is non-existent anyway. 😬

As for the editors deciding to power him up more, what can I say? It happens. Spiderman, Superman, Wolverine, Surfer, etc. they've ALL been powered up since their introduction, so there's nothing really out of the ordinary there.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'll need to check. near the start of the first vol of new gods i think.

Originally posted by leonidas
so sue should be able to take out ss or any herald or any being with cosmic energy since cosmic energy is the energy of the universe and hence is rooted in eternity? 😑

nuh-uh, not buying that at all. the celestials it was speculated actually EXIST in the hyperspace realm -- all sue did was was essentially banish the celestial back to its home plane. she did not 'destroy' one which i've heard said once or twice. and since g doesn't exist in that realm, there is no reason whatsoever that her power should have any additional affect on him.

Originally posted by leonidas
darkseid gained the OE buy TAKING it/absorbing it from the infinity pit. it was supposed to be his brother drax's power, but seid sabotaged him and stole it. as far as i know the notion that the OE has any relation to the source is a myth, unless someone has evidence to the contrary.

Originally posted by leonidas
your perogative. 🙂