Somehow I knew you would bite...
http://wii.ign.com/articles/100/1009963p1.html
God, I cant wait for MH3 to get here. When it does, I will be consumed by it.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Thanks Xan, good fix. It's true, most religions to have the best intentions.
Rules of most religions: "Be nice."
Based on what exactly? opium of the masses I say, they toss in a few innate obvious laws in their list of "commandments" (or w/e the equivelant of other religions are) while old men preach about how its impossible for a rich man to get into heaven (camel/eye of a needle thing) but is the pope poor? no, hes got/had his own state.
I would like to ask how you know where the "religons will of God" starts and ends and where the "will of the men behind it" starts....
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Blah, blah, blah. Stop spouting your twisted idealism and quit being a Debbie Downer. I'm sure you will come around one day, but for now, quit getting your panties in a wad over others beliefs. Practice what you preach, eh?
Why is that?
Well, I have a couple conclusions there, so I'll address 'em individually.
The organisation is not the religion because the rligion predates the organisation and is a seperate entity. The organisation is simply based around it.
Religion is personal, because it's a choice that a person should make dependant on what makes sense to them and what they believe.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Well, I have a couple conclusions there, so I'll address 'em individually.The organisation is not the religion because the rligion predates the organisation and is a seperate entity. The organisation is simply based around it.
Religion is personal, because it's a choice that a person should make dependant on what makes sense to them and what they believe.
How can you be sure? you did not live in ancient periods, today how would you even know that the scriptures your reading, the "God" that you think you know or the ideals he is supposed to be based on were not just the figments of imagination created over 1000 years ago (assuming God does exist and that there was an original bible).
The Organisation and the religion can be the same, I even read an arcticle about how Christianity just a cut and paste job from a lot of religions.
Choice can be argued.
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Blah, blah, blah. Stop spouting your twisted idealism and quit being a Debbie Downer. I'm sure you will come around one day, but for now, quit getting your panties in a wad over others beliefs. Practice what you preach, eh?
Why do you not just stop spouting your decadent view of sexuality? The homophobia that enshroud you is no different than your coital relationship with Link. Unreasonable, pathetic and sad.
Originally posted by Burning thought
How can you be sure? you did not live in ancient periods, today how would you even know that the scriptures your reading, the "God" that you think you know or the ideals he is supposed to be based on were not just the figments of imagination created over 1000 years ago (assuming God does exist and that there was an original bible).The Organisation and the religion can be the same, I even read an arcticle about how Christianity just a cut and paste job from a lot of religions.
Choice can be argued.
Faith is not about names and words. It is not about knowing who you pray to, but to mean it when you do. Christianity, Islam, Norse, they are all the same only with different tales to present themselves with. The comfort in a higher power bring many to ease. People had faith long before organized religion and will be having it long after.
Originally posted by Phantom Miria
[b]Faith is not about names and words. It is not about knowing who you pray to, but to mean it when you do. Christianity, Islam, Norse, they are all the same only with different tales to present themselves with. The comfort in a higher power bring many to ease. People had faith long before organized religion and will be having it long after. [/B]
You talk as if everyone has their own seperate deity and that there are not millions worshipping the same ones. How do you determine whether someones faith is true or whether their doing it just because they have been brought up on those beliefs? Beliefs that come from an organisation. Afterall not everyone can claim they have had a divine spirit appear before them and give them information first hand, insight and knowledge come from Churches, cathedrals, mosques and human written books/word.
In ancient Britain we worshipped all kinds of things, tree spirits, water spirits, the Earth and what ever God or Goddess that reprisented things we relied upon like a good harvest. As soon as the Romans invaded, our Gods and Goddesses mixed in with theirs, Minerva stood besides Pluto. It was around this period Christianity appeared, claiming organisation has little to do with religion and faith is flawed imo, people are told what to believe, I see more people with crosses around their necks and hands together than I see ritual sacrifice and woad covered men creating temples of mud and root.
Everyone worship the God they want Him to be. There is no clear picture of who God is, there is no specific description that allow everyone to know who exactly they are praying to. In their shortage of information, people pray to this invisible entity with their own mindset on what He actually is. To some, He is a bearded man, to some, he is pure energy while to others He is a She.
Religion has adapted, evolved and suffered retcon. It is never static and there are religions aplenty. So yes, every single religious person is praying to their own God. If God wanted more specific praying, praying directed towards Him as a sole entity, to pray to him by name, he would have made his existence more clear. He would have made himself more known as an entity.
God is what we need Him to be. He is not a constant presence that sit on a cloud and gaze down on us. He if anything is an All-Powerful presence that see and hear all things, that is and will be all things. Man does not need a bearded man. Man need faith. So that is what He is giving us.
To define God is to defile Him. Islam, Christianity, Norse does each and all give their followers what they need. Faith. Nirvana.
God is not in this for humanity. He is in this for the individual.
Originally posted by Phantom Miria
[b]Everyone worship the God they want Him to be. There is no clear picture of who God is, there is no specific description that allow everyone to know who exactly they are praying to. In their shortage of information, people pray to this invisible entity with their own mindset on what He actually is. To some, He is a bearded man, to some, he is pure energy while to others He is a She.Religion has adapted, evolved and suffered retcon. It is never static and there are religions aplenty. So yes, every single religious person is praying to their own God. If God wanted more specific praying, praying directed towards Him as a sole entity, to pray to him by name, he would have made his existence more clear. He would have made himself more known as an entity.
God is what we need Him to be. He is not a constant presence that sit on a cloud and gaze down on us. He if anything is an All-Powerful presence that see and hear all things, that is and will be all things. Man does not need a bearded man. Man need faith. So that is what He is giving us.
To define God is to defile Him. Islam, Christianity, Norse does each and all give their followers what they need. Faith. Nirvana.
God is not in this for humanity. He is in this for the individual.
[/B]
But the faith they follow (christinanity for example) paint a lot of those pictures, bearded men, beams of light, the sterotypical vengeful God, or the kind and loving God. Its organisations that create the likeness and who offer what God can mean to them, hence why its often called "opium of the masses" if you tell a violent man that if he does not change his ways the "veneful" God will make him suffer then he will change, God will transform into a loving person if he is there to help bereave the suffering. These ideas are pushed upon people the same way the Romans and eventually Christianity was pushed upon and changed the faiths of ancient soceities.
Their not praying to their own though, their praying to the one that makes sense at any given time because of influences by organisations or other nations. Its not like their holding onto faith, their changing to what they believe are the more enlightened views. According to Christianity he did make it clear, he apprently sacrificed his own son for our sins or something liike that.
Or what the organisations influence him into being, an organisation can literally extinguish Gods and force new ones onto soceity. Man needs control, religion think they should create God and other religious figuires to show this control, hence why when a nation invades another their culture would have to integrate or absorb that invaded nations Gods to keep control. Christianity is the final form of this control, youve got Romans snatching up Greek gods, who then absorb British Gods and then Christianity absorbs everyone, hence a larger religion.
People do not choose their God, the organisations choose it for them, as do their parents who would have likely (if religious) had followed that organisation also. If people chose their own Gods and faiths then we would not have such large religions encompassing so many people. You would have hundreds of smaller cults dedicated to the ideals of a few people.
That depends on who you think God is, personally I think if he does exist his actions are not for the people or for himself unless he is arrogent.
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
No matter what is debated: Religion, politics, sexuality, it always end up with someone giving a reply of this sort.Why is that?
Because the person giving that reply has realized they've backed themselves into a corner and can't argue any longer. Not that they ever had an argument in the first place.
our Gods and Goddesses mixed in with theirs, Minerva stood besides Pluto.
Um, Minerva had always 'stood beside' (not literally) Pluto - they're both from the same pantheon.
Christian holidays are definitely a mish-mash of whatever pagan holidays happened to have been celebrated in areas as they took over, though. I really don't think anyone can deny that. It was an easy way to convert people -- "see, even though we want you to follow our religion, we'll still honor your traditions somewhat".
Faith as a concept is definitely something that I just can't understand, though.
Originally posted by PeachUm, Minerva had always 'stood beside' (not literally) Pluto - they're both from the same pantheon.
Christian holidays are definitely a mish-mash of whatever pagan holidays happened to have been celebrated in areas as they took over, though. I really don't think anyone can deny that. It was an easy way to convert people -- "see, even though we want you to follow our religion, we'll still honor your traditions somewhat".
Faith as a concept is definitely something that I just can't understand, though.
I admit I forgot the name of my ancient British example.
Agreed, it was a form of control, nothing more. The people back then pretty much just accepted this new religion (sure there were still druids for a while after) as if it was a higher form of culture. Christinanity is the same thing, just another form of control, who god is is irrelevant as long as people are given the Christian (or w/e other religion is the subject) God as the focus.
Originally posted by Phantom Miria
[b]You are either missing or ignoring my point. God can not be defined, no matter your efforts or the effort of organized religion. Faith is God, not the other way around. It is not a matter of choice, it is a matter of need. Religion is not complicated, but there are many that try making it so. [/B]
But thats your opinion, I was trying to take it from the standpoint of a Christian who has always been a Christian, who are they worshipping? surely not a God they have deviced themselves but the God of the Christian faith.
God is like the face of faith, you dont "worship" faith, your faith is sort of a form of belief for a particulour deity or higher power. That deity is ordained by the religion you happen to be apart of.
Originally posted by Burning thought
But thats your opinion, I was trying to take it from the standpoint of a Christian who has always been a Christian, who are they worshipping? surely not a God they have deviced themselves but the God of the Christian faith.God is like the face of faith, you dont "worship" faith, your faith is sort of a form of belief for a particulour deity or higher power. That deity is ordained by the religion you happen to be apart of.
You do not get it still. Even in Christianity, there is no clear image of God. The church put an effort into making everyone follow one specific line, but they can only do so much. God is still what people want him to be. If God does not sate the thirst for faith, then people would not pray to him.
If you ask Christian people to describe God as a character, there will be a great deal of different descriptions, even from those more devoted than most.
God is what people want Him to be.
Originally posted by Phantom Miria
[b]You do not get it still. Even in Christianity, there is no clear image of God. The church put an effort into making everyone follow one specific line, but they can only do so much. God is still what people want him to be. If God does not sate the thirst for faith, then people would not pray to him.
If you ask Christian people to describe God as a character, there will be a great deal of different descriptions, even from those more devoted than most.God is what people want Him to be.
[/B]
They would because there are many kinds of people, often ignorrent who would follow him out of fear for their immortal souls or because they want him to do things for them. All the Church has to do is create a God who is all powerful (so he can give them what they want), all knowing and present (so they can feel like hes always watching them) and a combination of vengeful against the baddies (people who dont worship him/follow his rules) or the do-gooders (pray every day and go to Church).
Thats because the Church encumpasses a lot of beliefs, it combines vengeful with forgiving, obviously its the same God but if one person is looking at it from a forgiving type of view then they would mension that part of God. its similiar to the commandments, they sort of just ripped off what is common sense, dont murder, dont steal etc.
I disagree, I think God already covers more or less most identities that someone praying would want and they would more likely worship him for one reason than another. I think thats where that view fits in, God can be forgiving because I sinned and I hope he can forgive me for it, God can give me hope because I have none of my own, God can give me love because I cannot find someone myself etc etc. In the end its not like the Church define God as only one of those things, God is apprently all of them.
At the same time he sends you to burning agony for all eternity if you dont believe him....