Originally posted by illadelph12
Um, nvr, you are aware that by increasing the velocity you also increase the force exerted, so the punches wouldn't land with 40-50 tons of force.And also, for the punch to launch a being of roughly 300-400 lbs 1 km with enough force to level a mountain range...
Do the math guys. You and I both know your argument doesn't add up. So either they move really fast in order to exert enough force to pull this off (launching a 300-500 pound humanoid with enough velocity to crumble a mountain), they're strong enough to exert the force necessary, or they're insanely dense (meaning they'd have immense physical durability considering the way they've been shown to destroy landscapes by being launched by a 40-50 ton force punch into the earth). And if they are this dense, in order to move as quickly as they do considering how heavy they'd have to be in order to pull that off, they'd have to be immensely strong to maneuver so heavy a frame so quickly.
Either that or they are simply stronger than you guys are willing to give them credit for.
Something can be very dense and yet light. Like a bullet. uber dense and able to pierce the tuffest of materials and pass thru by feet if the thrust is strong enought. 100k worth of punching power on a super dense person seems about right. to punch a hole in a mountain. dont' know about destroying amountain range. That just seems rediculous, considering the size of the object hitting. Unless they hit and are charged with some kind of energy.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Mass nvr...
Not talking mass. Mass and density are mostly related but not always. If the DBZ guys had thier mass connected to thier density, they would be crushing the ground when walking and too heavy to stand anywhere. They are uber dense that is for sure. kinda like adamantium. Uber dense but not much mass. Tho we know that an object picks up some mass when it's moving. I think this is why they can pierce a mountain when punched thru it. having nothing to do with if the person is that strong. and beign able to lift 100k is mighty strong. Stronge enough to throw an indestructible person thru a mountiain.
How much force is necessary to launch a 6'1" humanoid of approximately 400 lbs in weight 1 kilometer through the air with enough force to smash through and level a mountain range?
How much force does a meteorite exert upon impact? How much velocity is behind the meteorite? How fast would a 2 meter long meteorite need to be going in order to level the Alps upon impact?
Oh please, it doesn't even need to be dense, or that much force. How much force would it take to put some piano wire through a plam tree and through a cement block? I doubt it'd be tons and tons.
http://www.mythbustersfanclub.com/mb2/content/view/201/27/
The guys decide to ramp things up, so they shoot some piano wire at the trunk. That goes all the way through the trunk, through the piece of wood behind the trunk, and into the cinder block wall!
Originally posted by illadelph12
How much force is necessary to launch a 6'1" humanoid of approximately 400 lbs in weight 1 kilometer through the air with enough force to smash through and level a mountain range?How much force does a meteorite exert upon impact? How much velocity is behind the meteorite? How fast would a 2 meter long meteorite need to be going in order to level the Alps upon impact?
Originally posted by Creshosk
Oh please, it doesn't even need to be dense, or that much force. How much force would it take to put some piano wire through a plam tree and through a cement block? I doubt it'd be tons and tons.
Thiers a huge difference between a cement block, and a giant piece of earth sticking out of the ground
The physics simply wouldent hold up in the aformentioned scenario.
Originally posted by illadelph12Mountains aren't as compact as cinderblocks, hence why you get rockslides, and hence why wind erosion works better on a mountain than on a building.
Completely different properties.Your comparing a piece of straw being imbedded in a cement block to a humanoid making a mountain range collapes upon impact...
Straw? I said piano wire.
So no the comparison is valid.
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555Right the cinder block is denser.
Thiers a huge difference between a cement block, and a giant piece of earth sticking out of the ground
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555Yeah it would.
The physics simply wouldent hold up in the aformentioned scenario.
The cinderblock is a denser material. Are we also forgetting the palm tree and the piece of wood that the wire went right through?
Oh yeah I guess you and Ill are.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Mountains aren't as compact as cinderblocks, hence why you get rockslides, and hence why wind erosion works better on a mountain than on a building.Straw? I said piano wire.
So no the comparison is valid.
Rockslides are caused by Erosion, glaciers melting, Weakened rock and soil from snow & rain (erosion again), Volcanic eruptions, weight from snow, (to name a few)
Cinderblocks placed in a similar enviornment and held together under the same circumstances would suffer the same fate. It has little to do with composition. Ide like to see a cinderblock remain firm after a volcanic eruption.
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555Thank you for explaining why a mountian might be weakened.
Rockslides are caused by Erosion, glaciers melting, Weakened rock and soil from snow & rain (erosion again), Volcanic eruptions, weight from snow, (to name a few)
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555Heh, So you're saying it doesn't snow and there's no wind and it doesn't rain in a city?
Cinderblocks placed in a similar enviornment and held together under the same circumstances would suffer the same fate. It has little to do with composition. Ide like to see a cinderblock remain firm after a volcanic eruption.
You do well to weaken your own argument. The material that mountains are made of aren't as sturdy as cinderblocks. Cinderblocks have been processed for extra durability.
A piano wire can be shot into one and doesn't require tons and tons of force. So a humanoid form can be shot into a mountain and not require much more than the equivilent.
Physics are not on your side my friend.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Mountains aren't as compact as cinderblocks, hence why you get rockslides, and hence why wind erosion works better on a mountain than on a building.Straw? I said piano wire.
So no the comparison is valid.
Right the cinder block is denser.
Yeah it would.
The cinderblock is a denser material. Are we also forgetting the palm tree and the piece of wood that the wire went right through?
Oh yeah I guess you and Ill are.
Sure a mountain may crumble a bit on the outside but I am willing to bet they are much tougher at the center. (I am talking Non Volcanos, rock solid terra land pieces) but please show me the scientific proof if I am wrong.
IN DBZ these mountains are not really mountains, they are like large rocky formations.
Originally posted by SeerQrisGuess you don't know how they're made do you?
Sure a mountain may crumble a bit on the outside but I am willing to bet they are much tougher at the center. (I am talking Non Volcanos, rock soloid terra land pieces) but please show me the scientific proof if I am wrong.
http://www.mountain.org/education/subexplore/explore02.cfm
Originally posted by SeerQrisHeh... Prove it. I gave you my proof, where's yours. 😈
IN DBZ these mountains are not really mountains, they are like large rocky formations.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Thank you for explaining why a mountian might be weakened.Heh, So you're saying it doesn't snow and there's no wind and it doesn't rain in a city?
You do well to weaken your own argument. The material that mountains are made of aren't as sturdy as cinderblocks. Cinderblocks have been processed for extra durability.
A piano wire can be shot into one and doesn't require tons and tons of force. So a humanoid form can be shot into a mountain and not require much more than the equivilent.
Physics are not on your side my friend.
Manmade objects are built to withstand such wether conditions, conversely, on average it is not nearly as severe as it is on a mountian (constantly bombaarded with 20 foot snow year round? Daily Blizzards?)
Again, place manhattan atop mount raineer. Replicate the events of 9/11 on a mountian -- and observe how firm the mountian remains.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Guess you don't know how they're made do you?http://www.mountain.org/education/subexplore/explore02.cfm
Heh... Prove it. I gave you my proof, where's yours. 😈
I can't prove what they are made out of, however using the simplest of logic should show that a cinder block is not stronger than a mountain.
Now lets talk about a cinder block as large as MT everest. How much force would it take to send piano wire through that?
Before i go to bed, incase you were confused (becuase your post seem to indicate a mixup in nvr's original question)
From my understanding, he was asking if a 50 ton object hit a humanoid that wouldent splatter on impact into a mountian, would it shatter a mountian to which i replied a resounding no. I never stated that it wouldent penetrate the surface (as in the cinderblock/string scenario)
Originally posted by Creshosk
Hyperbole. people stating what they can do is largely trash talk in DBZ. Don't tell me you were dazzled by all these outlandish claims as well?Seriously its a show and manga about fighting. Psyching out your opponent is part of the warfare.
I mean hell Vegita even admitted once that he lied about one of the things he claimed purely to psyche the other person out.
I'm sorry for resurrecting this comment I just found it so absurd and wanted to comment.
You can honestly have the oppinion that it was just trash Talk Cresh, but what remains a reality is that he was moving at light speeds and out maneuvered by Goku. This truth does not depend on your oppinion of how you felt about it unless you are Franklin Richards.
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555Yes so mountains would be weakened by this sort of activity. Thus the cinderblock is stronger. You're doing well to further debunk the idea that it would have taken alot of force to destry the mountain with a goku bullet. Especially as he was a devistator round and would probably have released ki on impact like having the wind knocked out of you.
Manmade objects are built to withstand such wether conditions, conversely, on average it is not nearly as severe as it is on a mountian (constantly bombaarded with 20 foot snow year round? Daily Blizzards?)
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555Heh.. mountain looks destroyed to me in this hypothetical situation. 🙄
Again, place manhattan atop mount raineer. Replicate the events of 9/11 on a mountian -- and observe how firm the mountian remains.
You're also not comparing mass sizing here properly. How about hit the mountain with the equivilent sized aircraft? Looks like you leveled the mountain.
Originally posted by SeerQrisUpload a video of a normal person breaking the cynderblock rather than his fist.
Also for clarities sake... We arn't talking about those cinder blocks that normal people break in Karate everyday are we? If so they have clearly shown their crumble-ability.
We're not talking about rigged cinderblocks but real ones.
Originally posted by SeerQrisNo A cinderblock is not as strong as a mountain. I'm comparing materials here. Processed stone versus material that used to be the ground but was pushed up.
I can't prove what they are made out of, however using the simplest of logic should show that a cinder block is not stronger than a mountain.
Which could take more damage, a mountain made out of cinderblock or a regular mountain?
Originally posted by SeerQrisHeh. thanks for missing the point. of application of force. 🙄
Now lets talk about a cinder block as large as MT everest. How much force would it take to send piano wire through that?
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555Would you care to prove that a humanoid sized object if hit by 50 tons of force and which released energy which seems to be devistating to rocks would not shatter the mountian? In essence that the mountain would survive the impact?
Before i go to bed, incase you were confused (becuase your post seem to indicate a mixup in nvr's original question)From my understanding, he was asking if a 50 ton object hit a humanoid that wouldent splatter on impact into a mountian, would it shatter a mountian to which i replied a resounding no. I never stated that it wouldent penetrate the surface (as in the cinderblock/string scenario)
Chi seems to be very detrimental to the material that rocks and mountains are meade of. Simply powering up destorys smaller rocks.