Superman vs Mangog

Started by h1a853 pages
h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by rotiart
Doomsday is stronger than superman... Ie if superman can bench billions upon billions and doomsday is stronger than why don't we see the citys getting wrecked just by his mere motions?
Because DD only weighs a little less than a ton so his steps wouldn't do anything. Plus the Superman he was fighting was only capable of lifting in the billions of tons (not billions of billions). The Superman that HP DD fought could now lift at least billions of billions of tons and HP DD was still stronger. That means both Superman's and DD's strength increased in their second meeting.

Doomsday would haveoved the earth itself with his incredible strength
What? You mistyped.

btw there's a scan out there of hulk punchin hat looks like a reality IMO existence...
Superman has punched through dimensions under his own power. Hulk hasn't.

And hulk holding two halves of a planet together
Which is impressive but this is WW Hulk not normal Hulk. Plus Superman has shown greater feats than this.

and what about the Hercules feats? And him tying with Thor strenghwise
I disagree that Thor should be tied with Hercules strengthwise. Otherwise they wouldn't be equals as Thor has the magical hammer and Hercules doesn't. But both are still far under Superman.

thanos equated champion with the power gem being the equivalent of hulk... And champion one shot a planet...
The power gem and Hulk's strength are variable. Champion only one shotted a planet after taking a lot of time to amp up, plus he got a large flying start. So if Thanos said this then he could have meant that Hulk is equivalent to an initial Champion with the power gem. By the mere fact that Hulk's strength is not fixed makes Thanos statement nonsense. Hulk can be either weaker than Champion, equal, or stronger.

Yet even the hulk loses...
Yet even Hulk wins too.

And superman being as fast as he is.... Still loses bouts to green lantern types... Guys with incredible powers but no real super speed... How is that any different from fighting mangog w ho is powerful in his own way [/B][/QUOTE] Lanterns are very fast. They can fly across the galaxy in mere moments. Plus it is known that characters don't always use their speed in comics. That is why you see Spider-man dodge and weave between a hail of machine gun fire like a day job yet get tagged by sandman and other super slow villains.

Lastly I don't recall Superman ever losing a bout to a GL.

gogogadgetgo Senior Member

Originally posted by h1a8
The feat is admissible since a lower bound can be placed on it. The lower bound comes from calculated the force in the absence of all gravity. Remember a quantifiable feat is not a feat that can be exactly calculated. But rather it is a feat that a lower bound for it can be exactly calculated.

are you that slow or something? MAGIC DUDE MAGIC!!! with magic involved, there is no way to determine what forces are negated and what forces are not. newton's law clearly states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. hence, the force being exerted by the three on the lasso would mean that the same force would be applied on the earth surface hence there should have been damage done on the earths surface. but as seen in the scan, no damage was done on the earth's surface. this would mean that the MAGIC on the LASSO negated any direct force feedback on the earths surface and whatever forces it canceled out making F=MA inapplicable.

Originally posted by h1a8
No it doesn't because the Alien could have been lying. Pulling an Earth is self explanatory and doesn't need commentary by a character. Actually the alien was lying since Thor would have sunk if he weighed infinite force. Plus Thor would never get overpowered by anyone since he can overpower infinite force. But we all know what Mangog did. A contradiction proves that the assumption is false.

but there is no evidence that the Alien was lying. Base on the scan, what he was saying is what the alien believes to be true hence his surprise and disbelief when thor got up.

you have no proof what so ever that the alien was lying. you grasp at straws and try to make an argument that thor wasn't thinking which is by far the artist's interpretation on how to draw it.

Originally posted by h1a8

Doesn't matter. If Superman felt the pull of Starbreaker then he obviously was pulling the Earth by his lonesome. Otherwise how would he even feel the force Starbreaker was pulling with and not just the mere planet itself

he felt the pull, but how much of it did he actually feel? by your logic on the infinite gravity scan, i can claim that superman was lying because he wasn't showing any vain in his forehead due to the stress.

h1a8 Senior Member
Originally posted by rotiart
Btw what is this billions upon billions of tons strength feat of yours. Is it the moving of the one planet?

Nope! That is the trillions of trillion of trillions of... one.
The one where Superman casually hit Lobo (who weighs 1600lbs.) to outer space through two stronger than steel and very thick metal shows the billions of billions of tons.

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

facepalm

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
are you that slow or something? MAGIC DUDE MAGIC!!! with magic involved, there is no way to determine what forces are negated and what forces are not. newton's law clearly states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. hence, the force being exerted by the three on the lasso would mean that the same force would be applied on the earth surface hence there should have been damage done on the earths surface. but as seen in the scan, no damage was done on the earth's surface. this would mean that the MAGIC on the LASSO negated any direct force feedback on the earths surface and whatever forces it canceled out making F=MA inapplicable.
Protecting the Earth from being damaged has nothing do with how much of the minimum force they had to pull with. I assumed there was no force pulling against them at all (0 total) when they pulled the Earth. Forces can be negated but mass certainly can't. It takes force to move something that has mass. The faster you want to move it then the more force you need. It has nothing to do with the Sun's pull against the Earth. Note: M*A has no forces in it but only mass and the acceleration you want to pull that mass with.


but there is no evidence that the Alien was lying. Base on the scan, what he was saying is what the alien believes to be true hence his surprise and disbelief when thor got up.
There is countless evidence that the alien was lying. If someone's comment leads to a contradiction then that proves that they are lying. The alien was lying because Thor doesn't have infinite strength as already proven. The alien was lying since Thor would have immediately sunk in the planet (or moon) they were on.


he felt the pull, but how much of it did he actually feel? by your logic on the infinite gravity scan, i can claim that superman was lying because he wasn't showing any vain in his forehead due to the stress.
Doesn't matter how much he felt as feeling only a microscopic amount proves that he was pulling with the force of at least a planet with no force pulling back. No vein in Superman's head means he isn't human that has that feature. I'm human and you can't see a vein in my forehead when I'm exerting my full strength (or even partial strength).

D_Dude1210 Doink!
Originally posted by h1a8
The feat is admissible since a lower bound can be placed on it. The lower bound comes from calculated the force in the absence of all gravity. Remember a quantifiable feat is not a feat that can be exactly calculated. But rather it is a feat that a lower bound for it can be exactly calculated.

Even a lower bound CANNOT be quantified as the same variable that affects the main value may/can affect the "lower bound" as well. Seriously, your arguments are getting desperate and nonsensical now... :-/

Originally posted by h1a8
No it doesn't because the Alien could have been lying. Pulling an Earth is self explanatory and doesn't need commentary by a character.

You were creating a "what the writer intended to show" argument as the basis. You cannot prove that the writer intended the Alien to lie. In fact, there is no reason why he should. I merely pointed out that YOUR kind of reasoning is false.

Originally posted by h1a8
Actually the alien was lying since Thor would have sunk if he weighed infinite force.

Incorrect.

http://i26.tinypic.com/vep5wg.jpg

Superman did not sink. And going by your "writer intended" argument, he was not flying in this scan either. He was lifting 200 quintillion tons (THIS feat can be used to prove his strength, tho) and he was NOT sinking into the ground either.

Originally posted by h1a8
Plus Thor would never get overpowered by anyone since he can overpower infinite force. But we all know what Mangog did. A contradiction proves that the assumption is false.

I don't agree that Thor lifted infinite weight (like I don't agree that Superman pulled a planet with that scan you showed), but I merely demonstrated what the "artist intention" argument is a false one.

Heck, we can pull the whole "lower bound" argument and then create a much lower value... lets say 20x10^100 tons w/c is infinitely lower than infinite, can't we?

Originally posted by h1a8
Doesn't matter. If Superman felt the pull of Starbreaker then he obviously was pulling the Earth by his lonesome.

False. Just because he felt something doesn't mean that he pulled it all by his lonesome. That's like saying that you pulled the entire opposing team in tug of war because you felt their pull. :-/

Originally posted by h1a8
My version of common sense is anything that doesn't lead to a contradiction.

Except that your version is just an assumption where you plucked made up facts and invented made up numbers with no basis of proof. This makes your argument invalid.

KuRuPT Thanosi Senior Member

Why do people engage others when it comes to supes I'll never know

Bentley Seitei
Originally posted by h1a8
Nope! That is the TRILLIONS of TRILLION of TRILLIONS of ... one.
The one where Superman casually hit Lobo (who weighs 1600lbs.) to outer space through two stronger than steel and very thick metal shows the BILLIONS of BILLIONS of TONS.

zomfg

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

h1 just laid down some rocket science on us boys, cause you know, it requires trillions upon trillions of lbs of force to send a projectile into orbit.

"The gun was capable of hurling a 94 kilogram (210 lb) shell to a range of 130 kilometres (81 miles) and a maximum altitude of 40 kilometres (25 miles) — the greatest height reached by a human-made projectile until the first successful V-2 flight test in October 1942.

At the start of its 170-second trajectory, each shell from the Paris Gun reached a speed of 1,600 metres per second (5,200 ft/s)."

and if you didn't know, it's old as phuck also.

"This oversized railway gun was in service from March-August 1918."

so yeah, lobo is several hundred pounds heavier than the projectile, but in no way does it require trillions of anything to send him into orbit.

KuRuPT Thanosi Senior Member

Originally posted by psycho gundam
h1 just laid down some rocket science on us boys, cause you know, it requires trillions upon trillions of lbs of force to send a projectile into orbit.

"The gun was capable of hurling a 94 kilogram (210 lb) shell to a range of 130 kilometres (81 miles) and a maximum altitude of 40 kilometres (25 miles) — the greatest height reached by a human-made projectile until the first successful V-2 flight test in October 1942.

At the start of its 170-second trajectory, each shell from the Paris Gun reached a speed of 1,600 metres per second (5,200 ft/s)."

and if you didn't know, it's old as phuck also.

"This oversized railway gun was in service from March-August 1918."

so yeah, lobo is several hundred pounds heavier than the projectile, but in no way does it require trillions of anything to send him into orbit.

Why are you arguing with H1a8's formula for measuring the exact strength of comic book characters. You should know better PG

rotiart Stan Lee Stole my name

I wonder how he arrived at his math?

The relative escape velocity for earth is around 10-15 km/second iirc.
I don't remember the overall math but how didwe get to billions of tons of stength being required to send lobo to orbit...

Ie look up how much force it takes to send a rocket into the air. Does that required billions of tons of force? I'm not doing the actual math just adding suggestions... Because somehow the amount of energy it takes to send a rocket which has a significantly higher mass than lobo to determine it's thrust and escape velocity...

The Nuul Senior Member

And like comics uses real life logic and physics....😆

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

^ you can use it sometimes if enough data is given, or if there is something quantifiable that is giving the feat substance.

h1 just abuses it so he can "prove" his many lies, the most shocking part is the persistence of it.

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Even a lower bound CANNOT be quantified as the same variable that affects the main value may/can affect the "lower bound" as well. Seriously, your arguments are getting desperate and nonsensical now... :-/
Yes a lower bound can be quantified. Just negate all forces but leave the naked Mass of the Earth with the acceleration you want to pull it with. This is like doing a physics problem by neglecting friction.

You were creating a "what the writer intended to show" argument as the basis. You cannot prove that the writer intended the Alien to lie. In fact, there is no reason why he should. I merely pointed out that YOUR kind of reasoning is false.

Doesn't matter. A lie is proven when it leads to a contradiction.

Incorrect.

http://i26.tinypic.com/vep5wg.jpg

Superman did not sink. And going by your "writer intended" argument, he was not flying in this scan either. He was lifting 200 quintillion tons (THIS feat can be used to prove his strength, tho) and he was NOT sinking into the ground either.

200 quintillion tons is not infinite tons. Thus there is no contradiction.

I don't agree that Thor lifted infinite weight (like I don't agree that Superman pulled a planet with that scan you showed), but I merely demonstrated what the "artist intention" argument is a false one.

Heck, we can pull the whole "lower bound" argument and then create a much lower value... lets say 20x10^100 tons w/c is infinitely lower than infinite, can't we?

The problem is that Thor didn't really exert against infinite force there. Thus no lower bound could be given.

False. Just because he felt something doesn't mean that he pulled it all by his lonesome. That's like saying that you pulled the entire opposing team in tug of war because you felt their pull. :-/

No! Superman was pulling the Earth (which requires a force) and he was pulling against Starbreaker. There is no way for Superman to differentiate between the two unless he knew how much force it takes to move a planet solo. So your tug of war analogy is faulty. As you talk about feeling the tug of a team and not a certain member part of the team.

Except that your version is just an assumption where you plucked made up facts and invented made up numbers with no basis of proof. This makes your argument invalid.

No at all. I'm perfectly right on this one. As long as I prove a lower bound then everything is valid.

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by psycho gundam
h1 just laid down some rocket science on us boys, cause you know, it requires trillions upon trillions of lbs of force to send a projectile into orbit.

"The gun was capable of hurling a 94 kilogram (210 lb) shell to a range of 130 kilometres (81 miles) and a maximum altitude of 40 kilometres (25 miles) — the greatest height reached by a human-made projectile until the first successful V-2 flight test in October 1942.

At the start of its 170-second trajectory, each shell from the Paris Gun reached a speed of 1,600 metres per second (5,200 ft/s)."

and if you didn't know, it's old as phuck also.

"This oversized railway gun was in service from March-August 1918."

so yeah, lobo is several hundred pounds heavier than the projectile, but in no way does it require trillions of anything to send him into orbit.

To achieve minimal orbit, a velocity of much higher than 17,000miles per hour (7598 meters per second) must be met. 17,000 miles per hour is assuming no air resistance. And multiples of even that is needed assuming air resistance.

It takes at least millions of tons to send a 1600lb pound being into low orbit. It takes more than billions of billions of tons to send them not only to orbit but through two highly durable (more durable than solid steel) and very thick metal walls.

rotiart Stan Lee Stole my name

Where does the tons come into the math? If at a tangent you have to hit 11km/s to hit escape velocity.

Please show me any kind of an equation. Btw if you can I'll be pulling out my physics and calculus books to double check your math. All I'm asking is for you to show that a object going into orbit has some type of correlation with lifting weight.

Are you considering lbs of thrust like for a rocket when calculating your "math"
or be honest and say you pulle the number out of the air... And while high, you have no idea what his strength is

heck I'll even do the math. Provide the equation with the variables and constants you applied

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

stop making stuff up. 17,000 is too low for starters, and the velocity isn't constant since not only does the air get thinner but once you get nearer to orbit earth's grip on you isn't as strong.

your math is arbitrary since it's just guessing, just stick with the fact that thor has done the same thing to harold jaekolson, whom is far stronger than lobo (and he was ko'd) so....... you can call it even if "teh steel doors" are that important to you. though they shouldn't be given superman's strength amirite? or is steel a problem for him iyo?

thor and superman on average are pretty much the same strength wise, whatever feat you want to bring up, thor has one just like it.

give it a rest.

D_Dude1210 Doink!
Originally posted by h1a8
Yes a lower bound can be quantified. Just negate all forces but leave the naked Mass of the Earth with the acceleration you want to pull it with. This is like doing a physics problem by neglecting friction.

The problem with you is that you STILL don't realize that the fact that the GL ring/Magic is present means that there is an unknown number within the equation that may/can affect ANY/ALL variables, and thus the true number can't be quantified.

Get it thru your head. We can't quantify the feat and it is, thus, disqualified. All the false math in the world can't help you here... :-/

Originally posted by h1a8
Doesn't matter. A lie is proven when it leads to a contradiction. 200 quintillion tons is not infinite tons. Thus there is no contradiction. The problem is that Thor didn't really exert against infinite force there. Thus no lower bound could be given.

Sigh. You completely fail to understand my post. You saying that with 200 quintillion tons, Superman SHOULDN'T be sinking??

"Common sense". Riiiiight...

Originally posted by h1a8
No! Superman was pulling the Earth (which requires a force) and he was pulling against Starbreaker. There is no way for Superman to differentiate between the two unless he knew how much force it takes to move a planet solo. So your tug of war analogy is faulty. As you talk about feeling the tug of a team and not a certain member part of the team. No at all. I'm perfectly right on this one. As long as I prove a lower bound then everything is valid.

Superman WAS in team (him and GL), and you completely failed to disprove my analogy... :-/

Also, because Superman SAYS so makes it true, correct? Well, the alien says infinite.... see the fallacy of your argument?

gogogadgetgo Senior Member

f=ma

and

a=change in velocity/t

so, assuming escape velocity as the final velocity with initial velocity assumed at 0 and wind resistance is neglected

a=11 100m/s / time t where t is any assumed time it took the body or mass to reach escape velocity.

pulling out more assumptions from the air(our out of my ass 😛 ) , i'll assume that it took 1s for lobo to reach escape velocity

which gives us an acceleration of 11 100 m/s^2

from here

f=ma

where m=1600lbs which is about 725.75kg

f= 725.75kg x 11 100m/s^2

f=8 055 825 kg m /s^2 or 8 055 825 N

converted to tons

tons(long) = 808.49tons
tons(short) = 905.50tons

assuming my math and physics are correct (which i suck at) may i now ask where is the millions of tons come in?

😛

gogogadgetgo Senior Member

Originally posted by -Pr-
john byrne = retconned.

also, can someome please post a scan of mangog that shows how superior he is? then i can close the thread.

i can post his 1st appearance (probably most of his appearances if i'm not lazy) and its up to you to decide if its spite or not...

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3553/thor15520.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1278/thor15408.jpg
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/7717/thor15420.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3513/thor15511.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8235/thor15512.jpg
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7684/thor15512q.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2290/thor15513.jpg
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/305/thor15514.jpg