Mixed Genre & Comic Tier Reference Guide

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Strawman fallacy, nicely done.

The DBZ universe never has speedsters tagged, there's no proof for how wide the gaps in speed are, ect.

You're assuming these gaps are massive when nothing points to that. It could simply be how Akira writes. Trying to compare them to people tagging the flash is a horrible comparison.

Well, speedsters get tagged all the time. Nappa was a speedster but he got stomped by Goku. Your logic is ridiculous.

Using Flash is a perfect example.

How about this, this is something for you to prove that would make my case irrelevant. Show me someone with a much weaker power level hitting someone with a higher power level in DBZ without any plot surroundig it.

I will be waiting.

There's a reason power levels disappeared later on. >_>

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
How does the bulkier form thing defeat my argument? I never said it was his power level. Fact is, his power level was still above Cells, but he was still slower.

Besides, that's not the only thing. Power levels decrease in fights as people tire. Supporting a measurement of total Ki energy.

Because it got buried.

Nappa is not a speedster. Raditz is a bullet timer. Nappa is worth 5 Raditz in power level. But there is no proving how much faster than Raditz he actually is. He could quite easily be less than a second above bullet timing.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
There's a reason power levels disappeared later on. >_>

Psst...Scream...

Originally posted by XanatosForever
I'll also suggest Blossom, Bubbles, and Buttercup for High Meta, individually, and the Powerpuff Girls for Mid Herald. 313

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I support the proposed placement of the individual Powerpuff girls. And the team placement too.

Eh? 👆 😱

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
There's a reason power levels disappeared later on. >_>

The reason was behind the fact that almost everyone in the series knew how to read power levels and the power level thingy started with the scouters.

Its simple for Goku to say "By reading his power level he is much faster than me", instead of using instant transmission, get a scouter from Bulma, put it on and read someones power level.

Dont you agree.

Originally posted by carver9
Well, speedsters get tagged all the time. Nappa was a speedster but he got stomped by Goku. Your logic is ridiculous.

Using Flash is a perfect example.

How about this, this is something for you to prove that would make my case irrelevant. Show me someone with a much weaker power level hitting someone with a higher power level in DBZ without any plot surroundig it.

I will be waiting.

No, it's a terrible example. The Flash has shown time and time again how fast he is, the gap between him and people who've tagged him is MUCH MUCH wider than any gap in DBZ where the faster foe was hit.

Raditz got hit by Goku and Piccolo, GJ.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Psst...Scream...

Eh? 👆 😱

So I nod high meta.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Because it got buried.

Nappa is not a speedster. Raditz is a bullet timer. Nappa is worth 5 Raditz in power level. But there is no proving how much faster than Raditz he actually is. He could quite easily be less than a second above bullet timing.

And again, you are saying all of this because you are ignoring the power level chart. Being a second above someone does not make it where you cant even touch or see this person.

We all know that Wonder Woman reflexes are> Superman (since it was said on panel) but does that mean that Superman cant see ANY of her movements?

All of this is common sense MooCow.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
No, Goku was faster, thus nullifying Nappa's speed. Hell, it took Goku and Piccolo together, both super human to tag Raditz who's speed advantage was minimal.

No, it's a terrible example. The Flash has shown time and time again how fast he is, the gap between him and people who've tagged him is MUCH MUCH wider than any gap in DBZ where the faster foe was hit.

Raditz got hit by Goku and Piccolo, GJ.

The speed was minimum between Goku and Picollo vs Raditz, LOL... they couldnt even see his movements.

No its not, flash has been tagged by speedsters that are much slower than him but DBZ characters speed is on so much of a different level that they cant even see there opponents moving and these are people that can see at super human speeds.

By the way Raditz was sneak attacked by Picollo and Goku. They never landed a clean hit. The only time they hit him was AFTER Gohun attack to the chest.

Originally posted by carver9
And again, you are saying all of this because you are ignoring the power level chart. Being a second above someone does not make it where you cant even touch or see this person.

We all know that Wonder Woman reflexes are> Superman (since it was said on panel) but does that mean that Superman cant see ANY of her movements?

All of this is common sense MooCow.

I'm not ignoring the power level chart. I've actually been agreeing with it, but I'm seeing it as what it is, a measurement of total Ki energy in the various characters. And yes, it very well could. We're talking about characters above bullet timing speed.

Why would reflexes mean that? It isn't movement speed, it's how fast she reacts to things.

Because Nappa is worth 5 Raditz, you'd automatically say something like 5 times stronger and 5 times faster. I'm not, I'm just going to say 5 times the Ki energy. Nappa is stronger and faster than Raditz. How much stronger and how much faster is not said and not specified.

mariofacepalm You're hopeless, Carver. 😐 If they couldn't see Raditz at all, how did Goku end up with Raditz in a full nelson? How did they fight him at all? How did Goku grab his tail TWICE? Raditz can catch and throw bullets, neat. He can fly pretty fast, but how fast? Nothing we haven't seen before, and this correlation of power levels your trying to make fails pretty hard, because his power level was about double theirs IIRC, and they beat him, yet earlier you claimed 50 points was enough for someone to get blitzed. Hm. 😐

Also, lol@DBZ speed being on a different level than the flash. You do realise that less than a mach of speed can make somethign very hard to track visually? The speed differences in DBZ are not nearly as wide as you're trying to pretend.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'm not ignoring the power level chart. I've actually been agreeing with it, but I'm seeing it as what it is, a measurement of total Ki energy in the various characters. And yes, it very well could. We're talking about characters above bullet timing speed.

Why would reflexes mean that? It isn't movement speed, it's how fast she reacts to things.

Because Nappa is worth 5 Raditz, you'd automatically say something like 5 times stronger and 5 times faster. I'm not, I'm just going to say 5 times the Ki energy. Nappa is stronger and faster than Raditz. How much stronger and how much faster is not said and not specified.

Again, in order to make your argument legit show me a character that was weaker power level wise hitting someone with a higher power level without some kind of plot.

It should be easy for you since KI doesnt increase your speed or strength (your words).

If someone reflexes is > then its the same thing.

Originally posted by carver9
Again, in order to make your argument legit show me a character that was weaker power level wise hitting someone with a higher power level without some kind of plot.

Freiza hitting Goku, presumably.

It should be easy for you since KI doesnt increase your speed or strength (your words).

That's not what he said. It just can't be measured accurately.

If someone reflexes is > then its the same thing.

This is incorrect. Being able to react to something doesn't mean you can move as fast.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Freiza hitting Goku, presumably.

That's not what he said. It just can't be measured accurately.

This is incorrect. Being able to react to something doesn't mean you can move as fast.

Frieza was>Goku and during the time Goku hit frieza, frieza was only using 1% of his power.

I dont see anything wrong with measuring it. The higher your power level is the faster you are against people with much less power level.

Who is faster, Superman or Wonder Woman?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
mariofacepalm You're hopeless, Carver. 😐 If they couldn't see Raditz at all, how did Goku end up with Raditz in a full nelson? How did they fight him at all? How did Goku grab his tail TWICE? Raditz can catch and throw bullets, neat. He can fly pretty fast, but how fast? Nothing we haven't seen before, and this correlation of power levels your trying to make fails pretty hard, because his power level was about double theirs IIRC, and they beat him, yet earlier you claimed 50 points was enough for someone to get blitzed. Hm. 😐

Also, lol@DBZ speed being on a different level than [b]the flash. You do realise that less than a mach of speed can make somethign very hard to track visually? The speed differences in DBZ are not nearly as wide as you're trying to pretend. [/B]

Look at the Raditz fight again and then come back and tell me how Goku and Picollo landed a lick on Raditz. By the way, Goku as a child was bullet timing and Raditz is much faster than Goku during his child years so I will love for you to stop saying bullet timing since people in regular dragonball is above that.

Originally posted by carver9
Again, in order to make your argument legit show me a character that was weaker power level wise hitting someone with a higher power level without some kind of plot.

It should be easy for you since KI doesnt increase your speed or strength (your words).

If someone reflexes is > then its the same thing.

Piccolo and Goku vs Raditz, Vegeta vs Reccome, Piccolo vs Nappa, first Goku and Vegeta, SS2 Gohan vs Cell. There's probably more.

Not what I said.

Untrue. Scenario knows what's up.

Originally posted by carver9
Frieza was>Goku and during the time Goku hit frieza, frieza was only using 1% of his power.

So Goku still hit someone with a higher power level. I was referring to Super Saiyan Goku vs. 100% Freiza, however. Goku was stated to have a higher power level, and Freiza still hit him.

I dont see anything wrong with measuring it. The higher your power level is the faster you are against people with much less power level.

But it is impossible to tell how much faster someone is. There are no concrete measurements on it.

Who is faster, Superman or Wonder Woman?

I'm unfamiliar with their high end feats, but I assume Superman has a higher flying speed. This wouldn't change the fact that Wonder Woman is said to have better reaction time. Who was it that said movement speed and combat speed were different?

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Piccolo and Goku vs Raditz, Vegeta vs Reccome, Piccolo vs Nappa, first Goku and Vegeta, SS2 Gohan vs Cell. There's probably more.

Not what I said.

Untrue. Scenario knows what's up.

Look at te Piccolo and Goku vs Raditz fight again and look at the plot involved for them to even land a lick on Raditz.

What was Recoome power level and Recoome was playing around with Vegeta and I am pretty sure they were around the same power level with a small difference going to Recoome.

When did Piccolo without a sneak attack hit Nappa? Never happened.

LOL... Goku vs Vegeta, I guess you didnt see what Goku was using in order to keep up with Vegeta and again, they were around the same power leve until Goku amped his trump card.

When did Cell hit Gohun?

Originally posted by The Scenario
So Goku still hit someone with a higher power level. I was referring to Super Saiyan Goku vs. 100% Freiza, however. Goku was stated to have a higher power level, and Freiza still hit him.

But it is impossible to tell how much faster someone is. There are no concrete measurements on it.

I'm unfamiliar with their high end feats, but I assume Superman has a higher flying speed. This wouldn't change the fact that Wonder Woman is said to have better reaction time. Who was it that said movement speed and combat speed were different?

Super Saiyan Goku and Frieza 100% power level were almost the same but Goku power level was a little bit bigger than Frieza and that is why he won because again, he was faster, stronger, more durable, and outright more powerful than frieza due to that SMALL difference.