Mixed Genre & Comic Tier Reference Guide

Started by Creshosk307 pages

Originally posted by Black bolt z
They are IMO.And Buu would probably be trans.Along with Goku SS3.
Simply being "more powerful" with a single moveset only bumps you up so far. Once you get to a certain point certain other powers start becoming mandatory for progression.

Powers that Goku is sorely lacking in.

Buu however does have matter manipulation via magic.

But his is kind of weak so wouldn't do enough for him to boost him out of the herald bracket since most of the matter manipulators in the high and mid herald range can do it better, and faster than he did.

Rather than looking at "who beats who". As a lower level telepath that would be low meta could beat Juggernaut if juggernaut started with his helmet off look at there exact powers. The best you really get is characters destroying a planet as far as power feats go.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It wasn't a handful, it was an army. Nihilus did most of the work.
It wasn't an entire army.

Nihilus wiped out most of the council.The rest of the order was done by nihilus.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Simply being "more powerful" with a single moveset only bumps you up so far. Once you get to a certain point certain other powers start becoming mandatory for progression.

Powers that Goku is sorely lacking in.

Buu however does have matter manipulation via magic.

But his is kind of weak so wouldn't do enough for him to boost him out of the herald bracket since most of the matter manipulators in the high and mid herald range can do it better, and faster than he did.

Rather than looking at "who beats who". As a lower level telepath that would be low meta could beat Juggernaut if juggernaut started with his helmet off look at there exact powers. The best you really get is characters destroying a planet as far as power feats go.

And buu destroyed many in a short time.

I still nominate darth bane for elite meta.He does have some good combat and power feats.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
And buu destroyed many in a short time.
One at a time.

If you have the power to destroy a brick, and destroy enough bricks to build a building, that does not mean that you have toe power to just outright destroy the building.

We never see solar system busting power. When we're told that someone has the power to do so by a complete liar we're expected to believe him despite him being wrong about everything else?

And then when he puts out the energy ... small crater... and that's it.

Originally posted by Creshosk
One at a time.

If you have the power to destroy a brick, and destroy enough bricks to build a building, that does not mean that you have toe power to just outright destroy the building.

We never see solar system busting power. When we're told that someone has the power to do so by a complete liar we're expected to believe him despite him being wrong about everything else?

And then when he puts out the energy ... small crater... and that's it.

True.But if you can destroy a planet in 5 seconds...and goku said he charged up enough power in about 30 seconds to destroy the earth 10 times.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
True.But if you can destroy a planet in 5 seconds...and goku said he charged up enough power in about 30 seconds to destroy the earth 10 times.
Congratulations, that's still not enough to take out a larger planet like jupiter, that swallowed up a planet that was ten times the size of Earth.

I see, most of the people supporting DBZ don't understand the sheer magnitude of the cosmos.

The earth is 8,000 miles.

A blast that would be ten times bigger than the earth would be

80,000 miles it's 93,000,000 miles from the earth to the sun.

From the sun to pluto its 3,660,000,000 miles

So a blast thats ten times bigger than earth.

is about .00000218579235 of the solar system let alone the galaxy.

100,000 light years diameter. about 50,000 au or 4,650,000,000,000 miles

So that blast that's ten times bigger than earth would be

about .0000000172043011 the size of the galaxy.

Jupiter is 120 times the size of the earth. I'm not impressed by 10x the earth.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Define substantial.Its obvious he has powerful force.He has to to stop his body from crumbling.

That video doesn't exactly help you.Sion did what he said nihilus with all his power couldn't.Then then nihilus killed sion and he came back to life.He really did absolutely nothing to him.

No they weren't.Nihilus killed most of the council.Thats the group in the chamber.The rest of the jedi where very much alive.And no he did not have an entire army.

They are IMO.And Buu would probably be trans.Along with Goku SS3.

1. As in enough to make him collapse a building. Obvious? His immortality is not based on Force power, it is of pain, Traya even says his knowledge of the Force, which relates to power, is nothing.

2. Only it showed Nihilus effortlessly tooling Sion when Sion talked shit and attacked Nihilus. Sion is all bark, no bite, he's a puss. Sion said he did that. Whoopty doo. Then when he attacked Sion, he made him look like a *****, AND knocked him out. Sion could not even approach Nihilus, the difference in their power is gargantuan.

3. The council. As in, the most powerful Jedi in the order. Actually, most of the Jedi are you know, dead, from the war with Revan and Malak. The Jedi Order was weak before Sion's "war" against them. Uh yeah, he did have an army, enough to populate an entire ship at the very least, and the Sith that were at Malachor.

4. Why? I have smashed nearly all the DBZ arguments in this thread, they are weaker, slower, less durable, and only marginably more versatile than Superman, a High Herald. Silver Surfer makes them look like jokes in every way you could list.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Congratulations, that's still not enough to take out a larger planet like jupiter, that swallowed up a planet that was ten times the size of Earth.

I see, most of the people supporting DBZ don't understand the sheer magnitude of the cosmos.

The earth is 8,000 miles.

A blast that would be ten times bigger than the earth would be

80,000 miles it's 93,000,000 miles from the earth to the sun.

From the sun to pluto its 3,660,000,000 miles

So a blast thats ten times bigger than earth.

is about .00000218579235 of the solar system let alone the galaxy.

100,000 light years diameter. about 50,000 au or 4,650,000,000,000 miles

So that blast that's ten times bigger than earth would be

about .0000000172043011 the size of the galaxy.

Jupiter is 120 times the size of the earth. I'm not impressed by 10x the earth.

Does it really matter?Who in comics(none cosmic)has actually busted a solar system...he has still busted a planet.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Sion

Although if carver finds a statement from Akira saying that cell can destroy a solar system it should be taken as true.The word of lucas is law in SW so I see no different why it wouldn't be the same for DBZ.But that all depends on if the statement exists.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. As in enough to make him collapse a building. Obvious? His immortality is not based on Force power, it is of pain, Traya even says his knowledge of the Force, which relates to power, is nothing.

2. Only it showed Nihilus effortlessly tooling Sion when Sion talked shit and attacked Nihilus. Sion is all bark, no bite, he's a puss. Sion said he did that. Whoopty doo. Then when he attacked Sion, he made him look like a *****, AND knocked him out. Sion could not even approach Nihilus, the difference in their power is gargantuan.

3. The council. As in, the most powerful Jedi in the order. Actually, most of the Jedi are you know, dead, from the war with Revan and Malak. The Jedi Order was weak before Sion's "war" against them. Uh yeah, he did have an army, enough to populate an entire ship at the very least, and the Sith that were at Malachor.

4. Why? I have smashed nearly all the DBZ arguments in this thread, they are weaker, slower, less durable, and only marginably more versatile than Superman, a High Herald. Silver Surfer makes them look like jokes in every way you could list.

Actually it is force based.

"Seeking death, Sion went into battle against the Jedi but continued to survive the encounters. He became convinced he was immortal as he built up a greater and greater tolerance for pain. Eventually, Sion was struck down, but he did not die. Instead, the pain within him welled up to agonizing levels, driving Sion to rise once more and strike down his would-be killer with all his anger and hate. Sion found that he could hold his own decomposing body together with the dark side of the Force"

"With the dark side, he could hold together his decaying body. "

"When struck down, Sion could call upon his anger, hate, and pain to come alive again.[2] In places strong in the dark side, like Korriban and Malachor V, the Force flowing through Sion made him nigh-undefeatable. Jedi Master Lonna Vash considered him "a perversion of the dark side."

Nihilus killed him but it still did absolutely nothing.

I know they were weakened.But I wouldn't consider what you descired an army.They had quite a few but I would say no more then 500 max.

As in the word of omega vision "individual battles do not determine placement." So it doesn't matter if superman could beat him (which IMO he can't beat SS3).

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Actually it is force based.

"Seeking death, Sion went into battle against the Jedi but continued to survive the encounters. He became convinced he was immortal as he built up a greater and greater tolerance for pain. Eventually, Sion was struck down, but he did not die. Instead, the pain within him welled up to agonizing levels, driving Sion to rise once more and strike down his would-be killer with all his anger and hate. Sion found that he could hold his own decomposing body together with the dark side of the Force

"With the dark side, he could hold together his decaying body. "

"When struck down, Sion could call upon his anger, hate, and pain to come alive again.[2] In places strong in the dark side, like Korriban and Malachor V, the Force flowing through Sion made him nigh-undefeatable. Jedi Master Lonna Vash considered him "a perversion of the dark side."

Of course it is a Force power, but it is not an indication of his actual power in the Force, compared to someone like Nihilus he is a joke.

Also, thanks for reminding me, when the Exile fought him, the only reason he was able to keep getting back up after being killed so frequently was due to him being on a planet overflowing with the Dark Side.

Saying one has the power to do something is not really the same as being able to do something...

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Does it really matter?Who in comics(none cosmic)has actually busted a solar system...he has still busted a planet.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Sion

Although if carver finds a statement from Akira saying that cell can destroy a solar system it should be taken as true.The word of lucas is law in SW so I see no different why it wouldn't be the same for DBZ.But that all depends on if the statement exists.

I don't think it does. I think he never clicked on the link that he tought was it but was actually somebodie's joke. A lot of the now slain fanboys kept arguing that the characters words were akira toriyama's words because he wrote it.

And then they'd get upset when it was pointed out that along that reasoning GT is non-canon because gt wasn't written by him.

And yeah it really matters. if a character has only busted a planet you can't say that his power is above that.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Of course it is a Force power, but it is not an indication of his actual power in the Force, compared to someone like Nihilus he is a joke.

Also, thanks for reminding me, when the Exile fought him, the only reason he was able to keep getting back up after being killed so frequently was due to him being on a planet overflowing with the Dark Side.

Yes....it is....compared to someone like nihilus yes.But most all jedi and sith of all time hail in comparison to nihilus.

Does it matter?He was killed multiple times on planets with very little dark side energy.He just keeps coming back so it doesn't matter.

Aarlong from One Piece to low meta. R. Danell Olivaw from Isaac Asimov's foundation to mid meta.

Candle Jack for Low Me

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Does it really matter?Who in comics(none cosmic)has actually busted a solar system...he has still busted a planet.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Sion

Although if carver finds a statement from Akira saying that cell can destroy a solar system it should be taken as true.The word of lucas is law in SW so I see no different why it wouldn't be the same for DBZ.But that all depends on if the statement exists. Actually it is force based.

"Seeking death, Sion went into battle against the Jedi but continued to survive the encounters. He became convinced he was immortal as he built up a greater and greater tolerance for pain. Eventually, Sion was struck down, but he did not die. Instead, the pain within him welled up to agonizing levels, driving Sion to rise once more and strike down his would-be killer with all his anger and hate. Sion found that he could hold his own decomposing body together with the dark side of the Force"

"With the dark side, he could hold together his decaying body. "

"When struck down, Sion could call upon his anger, hate, and pain to come alive again.[2] In places strong in the dark side, like Korriban and Malachor V, the Force flowing through Sion made him nigh-undefeatable. Jedi Master Lonna Vash considered him "a perversion of the dark side."

Nihilus killed him but it still did absolutely nothing.

I know they were weakened.But I wouldn't consider what you descired an army.They had quite a few but I would say no more then 500 max.

As in the word of omega vision "individual battles do not determine placement." So it doesn't matter if superman could beat him (which IMO he can't beat SS3).


Neme wasn't predicating his argument on Superman being able to beat them (which he totally would), only on the fact that Superman is in almost every way more powerful. Their stats are weaker, their feats are lesser, ergo their tier placement shouldn't be higher.

No one in DBZ warrants placement in Trans Tier.

Originally posted by XanatosForever
Candle Jack for Low Me

I see what you did there.

I nominate the Centurions (80s Cartoon Superheroes) for Mid Meta (each individually). They are, for a comparison, variations on Ironman's mission specific armors (stealth, heavy artillery, etc), though not quite as powerful:

YouTube video

Max Ray (Sea)

Cruiser – the basic sea system; a SCUBA system with a laser cannon and a Hydro-Missile. The propulsion system is able to function in and out of water, serving to give Max limited flight capabilities when out of the water. It also has a keelfin radar unit on the chest.

Tidal Blast – a larger undersea system with two Shark Missiles (high-yield missiles that can fire at sea, land and air targets), a chest mounted reciprocating repulsar leison cannon, and a shoulder mounted grappling line. It is propelled by what appears to be jet engines that can function underwater, thus endowing it with high speed and limited airborne capabilities. Sometimes Max would request for the Tidal Blast system's chest-mounted repulsar leison Cannon to be replaced by the dual torpedoes from Depth Charger for heavier firepower. It also comes equipped with a harpoon, and emergency sonic thruster, as well as a targeting device.

Depth Charger – a self contained submersible with chest-mounted torpedoes, two aqua cannons, a periscope and a "Hydro-Mine" (which is a highly-destructive depth charge) that can be replenished by Skyvault as required. This weapon system has variable-geometry pontoons that allow it to either dive or skim along the water's surface and in rare cases snow.

Sea Bat – a high-speed underwater system with guns and missiles, similar to a manta ray in appearance. It is equipped with a chest-mounted Hydrofoil unit for sea-skimming and is armed with six Hydrofoil missiles (four on the wing, two on the legs). It also has an arm-mounted harpoon that can operate in heat-seeking mode. Also is armed with a depth charge.

Aqua-Blazer; an upgrade system for Cruiser; it comes with extra control surfaces, air hoses, seismic missiles, coral missile, sea mine, harpoon, deepseascope and search light.

Fathom Fan – Assault weapon system resembling an Air boat or hydrofoil with missiles and a small laser in the chest. The two hydrofoil pontoons house sea-skimming missiles.

Jake Rockwell (Land)

Fireforce – the basic land system; has a chest-mounted Plasma Repulsar (that looks and functions like a Gatling gun), forearm-mounted laser cannon and shoulder-mounted plasma accelerator bazooka that fires Plasma Shells (that is able to blow up almost anything). Radar module on the left shoulder.

Detonator – a larger walker, with forward Freeze Ray Cannons (that operates like a Gast Gun) and an overhead radar-guided Sonic Ray Cannon. It has two Splicer Missiles (that have very high-yield explosive warheads) on either sides of the walker assembly, and a sonic screen, similar to a defence shield.

Wild Weasel – a gun equipped human-motorcycle that could move in a prone or standing position. In prone position, the forward cowl of the "motorcycle" is armored. The Wild Weasel system is built for charging headlong into enemy fire and ramming into enemy targets. It is equipped with two Land Lasers flanking the left and right sides above the head armor assembly.

Hornet – a helicopter with a small freeze ray gun in front, four sidewinder missiles and a canopy-mounted laser turret. It is sometimes assembled together with Splicer missile launchers and forward Freeze Ray Cannons from the Detonator assault weapon system for heavier firepower. It also comes equipped with sonic thrusters, two HF targeting sensors, and a tracking scope mounted on the rotor.

Swingshot – a tracked gun platform having a pair of caterpillar tracks attached to a back-mounted sub-frame. Arm-level Megablasters with integral shields carry Trajectoid Missiles on the exterior. The system also comes with a chest-mounted howitzer. The tracked propulsion system can be energized to allow it to attract to any surface. In one instance, the tracks were swiveled upwards and energized to allow it to attract to the upper surface of a tunnel, whereby Jake can traverse the tunnel without getting into the water below.

Awesome Auger – a drill like weapons system, rarely used. Similar in application to the Wild Weasel in that it can withstand a lot of abuse and is built to ram and tunnel through structures and enemies. It has Seismic Lasers that can soften the rocks in front of it to enable the auger drilling mechanism to penetrate them. It also has a mortar.

Land Laser – a "lightweight" system similar to Fireforce in that it doesn't hinder movement and doesn't have excessive mechanical attachments. It comes with a missile rack on each leg carrying two Generator Missiles each (for a total of four). It also comes with a large back-mounted missiles and an arm-mounted triple-blaster.

Ace McCloud (Air)

Sky Knight – the basic air system; small, lightly armed jet pack like air assault system with forearm-mounted heat-seeking Stincel Missiles, a chest mounted Laser Bomb, Laser Cannon Pod, and a radar early-warning system on the jet pack that doubles as a laser designator for the laser bomb. The back pack has swing wings.

Sky Bolt – a heavily armed fighter-jet, used for reconnaissance and air superiority; it is armed with a single pulse laser cannon, two rotating heat-seeking missiles, and two "Galactic Missiles" (mounted on both sides of the forward nose cone) that can be used to take out air and land targets and deliver a high destructive capability. It is sometimes combined together with Orbital Interceptor's propulsion system and life-support helmet for extra-atmospheric or high-altitude applications. Skybolt is also equipped with a cloaking device that is sometimes utilized with Orbital Interceptor as well.

Orbital Interceptor – non-atmospheric craft; usually used for space missions, but was used underwater on a couple of episodes. It has a "Multiparticle Missile" (that forms the nose cone of the Shuttle-like backpack) that can deliver a large blast radius. It is sometimes combined together with Skybolt's weapons package to give it heavier firepower. The leg attachments of Orbital Interceptor are Particle Beam Emitters that function like tractor beams, as well as fire energy blasts. These can be used to help Ace attract metal objects while in flight, or to allow him to hang on to metal surfaces in zero-gravity. It is also equpiped with a chest target scanner, a rear radar homing system, life support helmet, and inner and outer atmospheric thrusters.

Strato Strike – a medium-armed weapons platform with turboprop engines that resembles a powered glider. It is lightly-armed with Stun Missiles, and is highly maneuverable but is not very fast. It also has handle bars for passenger flight, and variable geometrical wings.

Aero-Sault; an upgrade system for SkyKnight but its materials seem more to boost Orbital Interceptor. Comes with solar panels, stear jet modules, FSK bomb and launcher, capillary hoses, a blaster and a repular cannon.

Rex Charger (Energy)

Electro Charger Pack– backpack system that can absorb energy from surveillance devices, has laser cannons and a Nighthawk missile that creates a magnetic vortex or absolute darkness (by draining most forms of energy away from an area). It has an arm-mounted Redirection Cannon that can deliver an equal and opposite force to any form of energy that it is pointed at. For instance, it can be fired upon Strafers to nullify their lift and thus causing them to crash, or against an incoming sonic ray attack to create an opposite force of similar magnitude to hold it at bay.

Gatling Guard – a very large weapon system that has the ability to nullify gravity and generate magnetic fields along with its own force field. The Gatling Guard platform has a large revolving missile magazine feeding the main turret. Three types of ammunition are available - Magnetic Imploder (that can also be used as a missile to deliver the energy that was absorbed from another source by the chest-mounted Energy Absorption/Retrieval Laser array), Gravity Negator (that nullifies the local gravitational field) and Solar Flare (a missile that delivers a momentary blinding flash of light of immense intensity, similar to a nuclear flash). Another possible missile type is a Magnetic Shield Generator that can erect a magnetic shield that blocks off any other electronic transmissions to an area, but does so with the side effect of altering the local weather. The Gatling Guard is also equipped with Quantum Thrusters and Solar Missiles. It is possibly the most powerful assault weapons system in terms of its sheer energy output and seemingly nature-manipulating abilities, and is often the last resort when a situation involves extraordinary phenomena that none of the conventional weapons systems can counter. The tasks that the Gatling Guard have undertaken includes neutralizing an artificial black hole and destroying an inter-dimensional portal/vortex. (Refer to Centurions Episode 51 - "Let the Lightning Fall" for a display of the Gatling Guard's capabilities).

John Thunder (Infiltration)

Silent Arrow – Crossbow like weapon system that is worn on his back, has a large pursuit arrow with a net inside and a sonic knife that can break through walls and doors.

Thunder Knife – Tracked system that has wheels on his hands that fire lasers, a missile back pack, and the ability to turn into a spinning saw type weapon. This assault weapons system is quite similar in usage to the Wild Weasel, as it allows John Thunder to charge into entire groups of enemies with guns blazing (and electric saws spinning).

In addition to his two weapons systems John Thunder utilizes non cybernetic weapons:

+ a Vibro-knife used in self defense
+ a pair of electromagnetic gloves used to climb walls and ceilings to observe or evade while infiltrating

So wheres the list ? the one on the first page is pretty empty.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Neme wasn't predicating his argument on Superman being able to beat them (which he totally would), only on the fact that Superman is in almost every way more powerful. Their stats are weaker, their feats are lesser, ergo their tier placement shouldn't be higher.

No one in DBZ warrants placement in Trans Tier.

I see what you did there.

As far as going all out thats true.But with CIS they could beat supes.So no they are not.

They do IMO.

Latest update is on page 167.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Latest update is on page 167.

Thanks, why don't the mods update it to the first post?