Mixed Genre & Comic Tier Reference Guide

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You're not comparing Kenshiro's durability to Thanos', are you? >_>

No. i'm just saying that it isn't a beast of a weapon like people seem to think.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Plastic Man's physiology is his defense. He's immune to physical attacks, and is completely inorganic... he doesn't have a brain to explode.

Plaz then wraps himself around Ken and suffocates him. Or just tosses him into orbit.

Actually, IIRC PM was physically hurt by his son when him and Batman went to deal with the gang he had joined.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Actually, IIRC he was hurt by his son physically.

Since Ken's attacks require manipulating a physiology that Plastic Man doesn't have, Kenshiro clearly loses.

Kenshiro can go intangible. PM can't hurt him either.

I'll try and help out Galactus. There were a lot of videos he could've used to better support the case, but I'll admit that Ken could be argued for Low Herald.

STRENGTH

YouTube video

- Breaking out of prison.(manga and anime)
- Destroying a wrecking ball.(manga and anime)
- Stopping two earth movers with each hand, and then splitting a wrecking ball in half with a chop.(anime)
- Destroying a tank with his bare hands.(anime)
- Lifting up and throwing an entire clan of bad guys.(anime)
- Stopping the charge of a 500 kilo warlord (Uighur) with two fingers and each thumb. The charge previously compiled a section of steel (in the manga). Kenshiro then crushes his shoulder with his grip.(manga and anime)
- Cutting out what looks to be a one thousand tonne slab of rock from the wall of a dam, which he then uses to block the flow of water.(manga and anime)
- Kenshiro punches a large stone pillar, being pulled by two bikes, in half.(manga and anime)
- From Hokuto no Ken 2. Kenshiro temporarily reverses the flow of a waterfall using only his fighting spirit.(in the manga, it's a river he reverses)
- Stops and crushes an oncoming train with his fighting spirit.(anime)
- Carries a GIGANTIC boulder (even larger than before) up a hill and then gives it to Hyo's troops to take over... if they can.(manga and anime)

SPEED

YouTube video

- Kenshiro's fists move fast enough to create multiple images. Throws 100 punches in 3 seconds. (manga and anime)
- Easily fast enough to evade arrows effortlessly, or catch them between two fingers and send them back as part of a Hokuto Shinken technique.(manga and anime)
- Catching up to a spear in flight.(manga and anime)
- Keeping pace exactly with a guy who moves faster than the eye and appears to teleport (in a manner a little similar to the later Dragonball series).(anime)
- Mamiya tests Ken by throwing an apple in front of him and then cutting through it with her bladed yoyo. Ken dodges the yoyo so fast he disappears briefly. When Mamiya and the kids catch each half of the apple, they find Ken had split it into two further halves.(anime)
- Punching speed. Creates an optical illusion.(manga and anime)
- Defeats an opponent creating multiple images.(manga and anime)
- Dodges the attacks of SCREAMING DEAD CAT MAN (AKA Rei) who splits the rock behind Ken into a grid pattern.(manga and anime)
- Amiba can't see Ken's fists. Ken then moves faster than the eye can see before attacking again.(manga and anime)
- This is Ken's most impressive one. Basically, Uighur, a giant warlord, accelerates two very long whips to invisible speeds to attack Ken, who not only grabs them, but ties them into a knot, and throws them back in Uighur's face, before moving back to same position without anyone realizing what he did.(manga and anime)
- Ken has been paralysed by Toki's pressure point. He breaks through the paralysis and leaps to stop a speeding arrow moments before it hits Mamiya.(manga and anime)

The scene with the arrow was replicated but on a much higher scale. I'm not going to estimate or math out the speed it took but you guys can. At most if you want to be generous then you can say he used four fingers on each hand.

6:36

YouTube video

YouTube video

-This one isn't too impressive, but Ken just basically avoids Hyuui's leap and strikes him unawares.(anime)
- A flashback. Kenshiro sparrs with his brother Jagi and manages to strike all of Jagi's main torso battlepoints without being seen, after having needles shot near into his eye area. This means that based on persistence of vision and 30 frames per second, Ken struck 17 times during at most 30th of a second (and possibly as little as a 300th as that is nigh invisible), and could have done over 500 strikes had he attacked for a second! This is 120 times faster than the human world record for strikes per minute.(manga and anime)
- Han from HnK2, demonstrating invisible attacks. It is said that nobody has ever even seen the shadow of his fist. Han is also a complete badass.(manga and anime)
- Ken fights Han, and Han can't see Ken's fists either.(manga and anime)
- A little later in the fight, Shachi is finally able to read their movement. I reckon Han would have still owned him though.(manga and anime)
- Ken dodges a noob and destroys his weapon.(anime)
- Kenshiro leaps from atop a pillar and grabs Hyo's arms that were about to hit all 1,109 of Kuroyasha's pressure points in the warped space of Anryuu Tenha. So, on top of that it would have been hard for Ken to see Hyo's arms because of the light distortion.(manga and anime)

DURABILITY

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- Thrown hundreds of feet into the air, colliding with a huge concrete slab and having enough momentum to carry it with him into the air.(manga and anime)
- Kenshiro demonstrates the Hokuto Shinken secret technique: Art of the Dragon's Breath. This technique allows him to utilise 100% of his body's ki to apply for defense or attack. Apparently, those who witness it must die. Shouldn't Batt and Lynn and people like Rei and Mamiya be already dead, or is this the SUPER version of shirt busting?(manga and anime)
- A tank fires a shell at Kenshiro. The shell doesn't actually seem to hit Ken, but if he was so worried by the tank gun, why is he walking instead of trying to evade?(anime)
- Ken performs the Hokuto Shinken Ougi: Secret Train Suicide of Al Quaida! but Ken can survive suicide, and he also survives the firebombing and collapse of the base he's in. He's not even really in a hurry to get out.(anime)
- Ken was just takin' a break.(anime)
- Hokuto Shinken's battle aura makes Ken's body stronger than steel. Bare in mind that Nanto techniques are so powerful that they can merely graze you or allow sheer air pressure to split ordinary people ALL the way through.(manga and anime)
- Arnold Schwarzenegger bends a girder on Kenshiro's shoulder and then smashes a multi-hundred tonne lump of reinforced concrete over his head. Kenshiro replies "Is that all?"(anime)

YouTube video

Poison can't stop Hokuto Shinken.(anime)
- Electricity can't stop Hokuto Shinken.(manga and anime, but it happens a little differently in the manga)
- Fire can't stop Hokuto Shinken.(manga and anime)
- Several thousand tonne walls can't stop Hokuto Shinken (or Gento Kouken).(anime)
- Hell, Hokuto Shinken can't stop Hokuto Shinken.(manga and anime)
- And you know what? Death can't stop Hokuto Shinken either.(manga and anime)

MUSOU TENSEI

Translates to something like transmigration through nothingness. With this technique once fully mastered Ken was able to counter any attack and become intangible for a brief moment and appear either behind them or just anywhere nearby from where he was attacked. Kenshiro can not will himself to be intangible or stay intangible by just standing there. From what I understand and have seen then it's something that only activates when he's attacked and he WANTS to use the move.

YouTube video

As you can see he can MT through projectiles. He was able to fight while unconscious when he fully mastered the move.

SUIEISHIN

This technique basically makes him Taskmaster but 1000x better and effective. He can learn and mimic your complete style after only seeing one move from you. He trapped Shuu in a Nanto Seiken attack that he learned after watching Yuda and Rei fight. He was able to counter, react and strike Souther after their first bout and Souther was faster than him.

Suieshin is explained right at the beginning of the video and it's shown again when he fights Souther at 6:26

YouTube video

NOTE: Kenshiro can not stay intangible for as long as he wants, it's a counter move not something that he can just sit in until he's ready to come out as far as I know.

His Hyakuretsu Ken is his singature move, he hits you over 100 times in however fast you think since I'm not mathematician. Also the words of description after each video are not my words.

In response to Plastic Man vs. Ken:

Doesn't really matter anyways, since the tiers aren't about individual match-ups, rather than overall power.

Originally posted by TheTyrant

Living Monolith is in Apoc' tier 😐

He doesn't have high herald feats? So, punking Jean grey and Black Bolt isn't good enough? What about stalemating an evolved High Evolutionary? No? What about casually killing Stryfe? What about casually defeating Ikaris?

Apoc is more than anyone in his tier.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I would ask for scans, but that point is irrelevant since his son has the same powerset he does, which Kenshiro clearly doesn't.

Since Ken's attacks require manipulating a physiology that Plastic Man doesn't have, Kenshiro clearly loses.

Ken doesn't have to strike a pressure point to hurt someone, but I don't know anything about PM, but is it safe to assume that he's pretty much immune to physical pain? If so then Ken's strength is useless. Also do you know of PM's resistance to cutting/slicing attacks? If he's also heavily resistant to that then Ken has no way of winning.

Muso Tensei. Damn I couldn't remember the name of the technique or else I would have posted a video of it.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
He never beat black bolt.Not to my knowledge.

Apoc fanboys like to claim that he tanked BBs full scream which is lulz.

Originally posted by The Nuul
Apoc fanboys like to claim that he tanked BBs full scream which is lulz.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Plastic Man's physiology is his defense. He's immune to physical attacks, and is completely inorganic... he doesn't have a brain to explode.

Plaz then wraps himself around Ken and suffocates him. Or just tosses him into orbit.

Didn't see this post on the other page but it answers my question so thanks.

Originally posted by galactusischere
Muso Tensei. Damn I couldn't remember the name of the technique or else I would have posted a video of it.

He fully mastered it later to learn how to fight and function while unconscious. He even learned how to counter Anryu Tenha which is Hokuto Ryuken's broken move of manipulating the space around you and effing you up.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I've seen that scan like 5 times.BB is obviously like gasping.Not talking.If he was you would see massive collateral damage considering what a whisper has done.

lol. Yea, he would be gasping with his mouth wide open when he is in immediate danger. lmao.

BB is lucky that Apoc isn't a recurring villain of his, or else he wouldn't be worried about Vulcan killing him. The only reason that Apoc never wins is because he is a powerful and resourceful villain. He could have killed baby Cable easily as he had him captive, but didn't . That's where his jobbing comes into play.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
. The only reason that Apoc never wins is because he is a powerful and resourceful villain.

That's actually why Rhino loses too. The characters who are too powerful and awesome have to always lose.

But yet Apoc still plays in the kiddie sand box with the X-Men.

Apoc is MH at best.

Originally posted by The Nuul
But yet Apoc still plays in the kiddie sand box with the X-Men.

Apoc is MH at best.

Ken seems solid low herald material. He still can't beat neither Ultron nor Plastic Man, and doesn't seem to be able to tag faster-than-light Makkari (who admittedly is a one-trick pony).

To be fair, I don't think Gamora with or without godslayer has any business being a low herald.

Originally posted by Bentley
Ken seems solid low herald material. He still can't beat neither Ultron nor Plastic Man, and doesn't seem to be able to tag faster-than-light Makkari (who admittedly is a one-trick pony).

To be fair, I don't think Gamora with or without godslayer has any business being a low herald.

He wouldn't tag Makarri, but Makarri would die as soon as they make contact. Non-adamantium Ultron would get crushed by ken who can easily destroy stone and metal with a single swipe. PM would stalemate Ken or get BFR'd. Ken can go intangible and is MUCH faster than PM.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
He wouldn't tag Makarri, but Makarri would die as soon as they make contact. Non-adamantium Ultron would get crushed by ken who can easily destroy stone and metal with a single swipe. PM would stalemate Ken or get BFR'd. Ken can go intangible and is MUCH faster than PM.

I just said he can't beat them which he can't. Secondary adamantium is way harder than steel or rock, and there are Ultrons made out of primary adamantium so the argument is moot.

Makkari doesn't need to touch him to win, throwing something at escape velocity to his head or accumulating momentum from things he touches and then sending them towards him would be more than enough.

As you see, he can hang but not beat most of people in low herald. At such I think he's low herald at beast, if not high meta.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
He wouldn't tag Makarri, but Makarri would die as soon as they make contact. Non-adamantium Ultron would get crushed by ken who can easily destroy stone and metal with a single swipe. PM would stalemate Ken or get BFR'd. Ken can go intangible and is MUCH faster than PM.

If this Makarri person is FTL or has LS reactions then Ken isn't tagging them. I don't see know much about Ultron but he doesn't seem like the type that will just get in Ken's face and try to brawl with him.

I don't know PM's speed so I won't comment on that but as Smurph already said, this isn't about who can beat who in a tier.