Cell Vs Superman

Originally posted by carver9
I dont care how fast goku and cell are fight. I want you to show me a scan of superman fight like that period. Winking in and out of battle, doing efficient moves, while doing so. I dont want to see superman use speed and one punch someone and thats the end of him moving like that. I want to see continuous speed display like a dragonball character.

It's kind of hard to show someone winking in and out of battle in a comic book. Since it's not animated. 😐

Originally posted by carver9
Do me a favor, show me any character from marvel or dc doing that. That should be much easier for you. I bet you cant find one. Show me a character from either punching someone from the sky to the ground but before the person hit the ground the person that punched them are already at the ground preparing himself for another attack.

Using examples like that, I could say that JLU Superman is faster than Comic Superman since he punched Darkseid through some buildings and then appeared behind him. But that would be bullshitting.

Guys like Superman don't just punch or get punched a small distance into the air. They end up sending people out of orbit.

E.G: Superman punching Wonder Woman from the Sun to Earth, Superman punching Lobo out of orbit, Strange Visitor hitting Superman out of orbit, that dude with the axe hitting Superman out of
orbit, etc.

Carver you have presnted alot of cold hard facts and evidence. You have my vote. I am going to have to give you a QFT

Originally posted by SeerQris
Thats great and all for supes but i dont see him as carver says winking in and out. It really isnt about the human eye being unable to detect the movement. It is more of the raw fact that they are INVISIBLE just flat out winking in and out of everyones existance. As if teleporting.

For every high end feat supes has some ver low ones that seem to contradict his high end feats. I am not gonna dwell on those I am just saying that is should be factored into this battle.

Most of those low-end feats took place during Bryne's run. Superman has gotten much stronger since he returned after DOS.

Carver9, that was a brilliant post.
Honestly, how can you deny such cold facts?
How can you neglect supermans "slow" speed feats?
You know, in your heart that every single z warrior is capable of keep up in combat with Supeman. Hes simply not faster than them in combat. Im not even going to take the cheesy route and finalize supermans speed as the ones in his less impressive showings, especially when you take into account how common they are. Its not farfetched to say that superman can keep up with fast fighters, such as z warriors. But at the same time, he is simply, not faster.

Using examples like that, I could say that JLU Superman is faster than Comic Superman since he punched Darkseid through some buildings and then appeared behind him. But that would be bullshitting.

Good point here.

We are takling strictly about the anime and not using the manga as a refrence though is my response to that.

Originally posted by Rorschach
He's caught multiple bullets before.

Because that was 9 years ago. Sometimes characters get stronger as time progresses.

Im not referring to him catching bullet, hell wolverine even caught bullets. Im saying that he didnt have the speed to stop the bullets from killing others. If he had light speed, he could have flown around the world 4 times and still had plenty of time to stop the bullets BUT he was right there and didnt even catch one bullet.

I dont know why that was brought up anyway, my bad. I just want you to know that superman dont have any defense against any dragonball z character. He has no way of hitting them. They would look at his blitz as weak and might not even get hit by it and portray him as just a brick with no combat speed or experience like them.

Example, if quicksilver and doomsday was to have a running race, doomsday would lose but when it comes to combat speed, he got quicksilver by a long shot.

dinner time brb

It takes DBZ characters minutes to fly across the planet....

The combat speed you're referring to is also from Anime. Anime are known for being notorious when it comes to speedblitzing. People speedblitz eachother in basketball anime and in real life, normal series. You can't compare anime to a comic book.

If they were to make an anime out of Superman's fight with Zoom in example it would look very different then in the comic. You need to realize that it can still be fast, even if it doesn't look über fast. If you read the manga you'll see that their speed is portrayed exactly the same way from the namek saga to the buu saga. Does that mean that they've stopped increasing in speed or that it would be impossible to portray them moving any faster?

Originally posted by carver9
Im not referring to him catching bullet, hell wolverine even caught bullets. Im saying that he didnt have the speed to stop the bullets from killing others. If he had light speed, he could have flown around the world 4 times and still had plenty of time to stop the bullets BUT he was right there and didnt even catch one bullet.

If he had flown at light-speed he would have killed them anyway because of the speed he was traveling at. He said so himself that he avoids flying at supersonic speeds in populated areas, that was when he was flying to save Lois and Jimmy on a boat.

Originally posted by Rorschach
It's kind of hard to show someone winking in and out of battle in a comic book. Since it's not animated. 😐

Using examples like that, I could say that JLU Superman is faster than Comic Superman since he punched Darkseid through some buildings and then appeared behind him. But that would be bullshitting.

Guys like Superman don't just punch or get punched a small distance into the air. They end up sending people out of orbit.

E.G: Superman punching Wonder Woman from the Sun to Earth, Superman punching Lobo out of orbit, Strange Visitor hitting Superman out of orbit, that dude with the axe hitting Superman out of
orbit, etc.

Very, very bad exuse. Ok since you say superman is punching people out of orbit (which is total bs because that simply saying that every time superman has ever hit someone in comics that they end up in space, never happened but a hand full of times.) I know you hate using dragonball gt, I do to but when goku was fight the android as a super saiyan, android 17. The android kneed goku in space and met him up there and hit him back to the ground, before goku even acknowledged the hit.

Thats how they have been fight since the beginning of dragonball, no matter how far they hit there opponents. Goku and master roshi did a entire fight sean that could have lasted about 30 minutes with a regular human but they did it in a millisecond and displayed what they did in slow motion to the audience because the audience didnt see any of it. Frieza and goku made 10 episodes out of a 2 minute fight. How fast do you think that they had to be going.

Originally posted by Rorschach
If he had flown at light-speed he would have killed them anyway because of the speed he was traveling at. He said so himself that he avoids flying at supersonic speeds in populated areas, that was when he was flying to save Lois and Jimmy on a boat.

(i love that comic that you just brought up with loius and Jimmy, back to the topic.)

So you think that he would just have let the soldiers die instead of increasing his speed enough to save them.

Originally posted by carver9
Im not referring to him catching bullet, hell wolverine even caught bullets. Im saying that he didnt have the speed to stop the bullets from killing others. If he had light speed, he could have flown around the world 4 times and still had plenty of time to stop the bullets BUT he was right there and didnt even catch one bullet.

No seriously. You keep spouting off things that just aren't true.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/7786/08222005050314pm5fl.jpg

Originally posted by llagrok
It takes DBZ characters minutes to fly across the planet....

The combat speed you're referring to is also from Anime. Anime are known for being notorious when it comes to speedblitzing. People speedblitz eachother in basketball anime and in real life, normal series. You can't compare anime to a comic book.

If they were to make an anime out of Superman's fight with Zoom in example it would look very different then in the comic. You need to realize that it can still be fast, even if it doesn't look über fast. If you read the manga you'll see that their speed is portrayed exactly the same way from the namek saga to the buu saga. Does that mean that they've stopped increasing in speed or that it would be impossible to portray them moving any faster?

I read some of it but im not going to continue because your logics are very, very bad. All anime dont wink out. The only ones that i truly know that wink out like dragonball is yu yu and they have powers that are almost on dbz level.

Like i said before superman has no combat speed but i got to give him his credit, he is fast as hell but just not dragonball fast.

Originally posted by llagrok
It takes DBZ characters minutes to fly across the planet....

The combat speed you're referring to is also from Anime. Anime are known for being notorious when it comes to speedblitzing. People speedblitz eachother in basketball anime and in real life, normal series. You can't compare anime to a comic book.

If they were to make an anime out of Superman's fight with Zoom in example it would look very different then in the comic. You need to realize that it can still be fast, even if it doesn't look über fast. If you read the manga you'll see that their speed is portrayed exactly the same way from the namek saga to the buu saga. Does that mean that they've stopped increasing in speed or that it would be impossible to portray them moving any faster?

But i ask, at what point is indicateing raw speed not enough? What more can the animator do? In the same token someone can ask what a comic book character can do to indicate he is moving at rediculous speeds. You cannot be over analytical when the evidence is clearly put fourth through brilliant displays of speed, characters ziping accross like lightning bolts, rendering themselfs completely invisible durring long bouts -- all "speed symptoms". You (not literally you) know they are moving incredibly fast. How fast exactly? Who knows, but it is more than sufficient to compete with superman. Its terribly easy to nitpick supermans underwhelming showings, but for the sake of an argument, why even bother? We've seen him go really fast, we've seen him go average speed, we've seen him be tagged by villans that dont move very fast. I dont need a spedometer to know superman is going fast. The author/artist did a great job of implying they are moving fast.

The same goes for the z warriors. When i see goku zipping down like a bolt of lightning, when i see cell bash gohan miles away, only to be waiting behind him chargeing a kamehameha, when i see Goku chargeing a kamehamea while simotainously warping in 12 different locations, makeing himself appear a if there are twelve of him -- clearly, he is moving at fantastic speeds.

Originally posted by carver9
Very, very bad exuse. Ok since you say superman is punching people out of orbit (which is total bs because that simply saying that every time superman has ever hit someone in comics that they end up in space, never happened but a hand full of times.)

It's happened several times. I forgot to mention the time that Etrigan punched Superman to the moon.

Originally posted by carver9
I know you hate using dragonball gt, I do to but when goku was fight the android as a super saiyan, android 17. The android kneed goku in space and met him up there and hit him back to the ground, before goku even acknowledged the hit.

GT in non-cannon. If you really want to use GT then let me bring up the fact that Goku or Gogeta, not sure who, has trouble lifting a building. Super 17 was also stronger than Goku, Goku beat him by getting lucky. Even Goku said something about the original 17 helping Goku find Super 17's weakness.

Originally posted by carver9
Thats how they have been fight since the beginning of dragonball, no matter how far they hit there opponents. Goku and master roshi did a entire fight sean that could have lasted about 30 minutes with a regular human but they did it in a millisecond and displayed what they did in slow motion to the audience because the audience didnt see any of it. Frieza and goku made 10 episodes out of a 2 minute fight. How fast do you think that they had to be going.

I recall that it was Kurrin and Roshi, not Goku and Roshi. It also only lasted for 1 second but didn't seem like it was going on for 30 minutes.

Frieza and goku had 5 minutes left after Frieza hit the core of the planet. And even then Dende had time to ask the dragon for a wish and to have everyone teleport to Earth, and in the anime Vegeta actually talked to Goku after he had gone SSJ.

I will never buy the Anime style just cuz its anime argument. Dont compare other animes to DBZ, they are not rulers and measurements for dbz.

Again, let me be clear, i am not denying supermans ability to move very fast.

I am simply stateing, its no where close to being out of the range of a z warriors combat speed. Not today, not ever.

Originally posted by carver9
(i love that comic that you just brought up with loius and Jimmy, back to the topic.)

So you think that he would just have let the soldiers die instead of increasing his speed enough to save them.

A sonic boom would have killed them.

Originally posted by Rorschach

GT in non-cannon. If you really want to use GT then let me bring up the fact that Goku or Gogeta, not sure who, has trouble lifting a building. Super 17 was also stronger than Goku, Goku beat him by getting lucky. Even Goku said something about the original 17 helping Goku find Super 17's weakness.

Without delveing too deeply into this topic, let me say this
Relative to the cartoon, no one can difinitively say that GT is non-cannon. Akira has never said it, and writers change all the time. Superman isint cannon going by that logic.

Conversely, their is nothing to imply that GT is non cannon. It simply has a different staff -- very common in comic books, as well as cartoons.

Originally posted by carver9
(i love that comic that you just brought up with loius and Jimmy, back to the topic.)

So you think that he would just have let the soldiers die instead of increasing his speed enough to save them.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9101/0869a916yt.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/704/08222005052719pm2ys.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8281/08222005052832pm2wo.jpg

He managed to plug Lois's ears with cotton as he was flying through to protect her from the sonic boom and grab the rifle to reduce it to the size of a bullet.

"I could see Jimmy hit the signal just before the shot."

So he snagged the shot that was fired as well.