Juggernaut vs Odin

Originally posted by quanchi112
I know you better than posting scans you satisdy your ignorance. It's common sense you need to be more powerful than whatever is protecting him to hurt him. Odin clearly is on another level than foes like War Hulk who have easily overcame his enchantments before. Thor has as well.

Whatever you tell yourself to sleep at night. Live in a world of delusions.

Thor used Mjolnir to overcome his enchantment, yes. I don't think anyone denies that Odin can do that.

You're also clearly too stupid to realise what I was saying. Granted, this is not surprising.

Why so sad Quan?

Originally posted by NemeBro
War Hulk didn't hurt him. 🙂

Thor used Mjolnir to overcome his enchantment, yes. I don't think anyone denies that Odin can do that.

You're also clearly too stupid to realise what I was saying. Granted, this is not surprising.

Why so sad Quan?

If you are more powerful you don't need to overcame the enchantment you schoolboy.

I am sad because you don't seem to be soaking up the residual awesomeness from my posts.

What's Odin's greatest Physical feat

Headbutting Galactus?

If it was Silver Age Odin, I would think he would physically rip Juggernaut's head out.

If Brucey thinks Juggs can beat Galactus.. then surely he beats Odin right... since ya know... Odin one shot himself against Galactus head...

Considering that Colossus received skeletal fractures by an Avatar, or aspect of the Serpent, I could see Odin breaking every bone in the Juggernaut's body.

Cain gets his ass kicked here. Let's be real.

Originally posted by Stoic
Considering that Colossus received skeletal fractures by an Avatar, or aspect of the Serpent, I could see Odin breaking every bone in the Juggernaut's body.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Cain gets his ass kicked here. Let's be real.

So you believe that Odin can punch with more power than 20x more than Thor's mightiest slams?

Originally posted by h1a8
So you believe that Odin can punch with more power than 20x more than Thor's mightiest slams?

I don't see Thor reigniting dead stars and destroying galaxies as a side effect of his battles.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I don't see Thor reigniting dead stars and destroying galaxies as a side effect of his battles.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I don't see Thor reigniting dead stars and destroying galaxies as a side effect of his battles.

Originally posted by h1a8
What does that got to do with punching someone with natural fists?

Odin's battle with Seth was stated to resemble a simple slug fest (with some energy blasts tossed into it) and in spite of that, the effects of their battle was felt across reality itself.

Further more, the OP has stated that Odin can do anything he wants here so long as he doesn't

A.) Directly remove/cancel the enchantment of Juggernaut's forcefield/durability.

or

B.) Mindrape him.

Odin doesn't need to do either in order to rage stomp Cain. Conversely, what can Juggernaut do to harm Odin?

Originally posted by h1a8
You are faultily assuming that one can ALWAYS efficiently channel their power into pure physical strength and durability. This is not always the case. For example, assuming Sentry has the power of a million exploding suns but has only been shown to channel only a fraction of a single sun's energy towards his physical strength then should we assume that he can still channel those million exploding suns into raw physical strength? Odin MUST SHOW IT and not speculated to be able to do so.

Did you miss my scan? I even underlined the words. In what appeared to be a simple slugfest, Seth/Odin were fighting –on every plane of reality- and the aftershocks of their battle were destroying Galaxies etc.

How are you still not satisfied? Also, lawlz at using the Sentry as analogy for Odin.

Originally posted by h1a8
He was weaker. All Asgardians, even Odin, were originally created to be physically weaker than Thor. In Norse Mythology, Thor is the physically strongest Asgardian. But that is irrelevant since my point still stands (Odin force feats are not commutative).

Based on what exactly? Thor might have been stronger than Odin in the JIM days (At least based on a comment by Loki) but that was promptly forgotten -before even Kirby was off the title- and it was made very clear that Odin was far and away above Thor. I'd have no problem with it if you made a guess but you have absolutely no grounds for conclusively claiming that Odin at any point in his history was weaker than Thor physically. Especially since the brothers retcon by Walt -that came a decade later- holds no weight any longer. And no, handbook nonsense doesn't count as evidence.

You need to stop referencing Norse mythology, it has no value here.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong. You can't give a character a level of doing something when they haven't shown it. They must show that they can grant themselves flash speed or physical strength greater than whatever. This is bordering on trolling when you suggest such things without proof. I can get into all the theoretically things Magneto can do but none of it would hold up for the simple fact that he hasn't shown such things or shown them to the level I'm making it out to be. If Odin was so high and mighty physical wise then he would have no sold Thor's hammer strike. And Odin is not stronger than Thor by a vast amount for the simple fact that he hasn't shown that type of strength.

I'm not making up this shit up, the Odin Force augments the wielder across the board. Just because you refuse to accept any evidence I post or just ignore it doesn't mean it's not there. He has.

A significantly weakened Odin one shots Ulik:
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/788/thorvol252702508.jpg

But I'm sure that you'll once again ignore this evidence or find something unsatisfactory with it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong! This was my point when I implied that feats of the Odin force are not commutative (I was explicitly thinking of Heimdalls feat). Whatever X character does physically with the odin force can not be commuted to Odin, especially if Odin has contradicting showings. Also each character has their own base strength to stack against and their own unique ability to transfer the Odin force into strength.

I’m tired of holding your hand, apply some critical thinking. Heimdall only possessed a fraction of the Odin Force when he did that. The All-Father has the entire well to drawn on, in that same position he would have done at least as well. DeFalco also wrote a drained Odin with spasms of weakness shrug off Annihilus’ blasts:

Here the combined might of Thor, Balder, the Warrior’s Three, Heimdall and a few other of the strongest Asgardians strikes an entranced Odin (He was growing weaker by the moment as Infinity gained control) and it barely manages to knock him over (Absolutely no damage was done):

Here Odin is unharmed by a direct strike from the Twilight Sword to the head:

Contradictory? Oh yes, Odin felt Thor’s hit under Fraction. Thankfully you only go by the characters best showings so it doesn’t matter. 🙂

Like I said, Odin is far above Thor physically. The same goes for the Juggernaut, he wins this thread in a spite stomp.

I’m still waiting on that Juggernaut feat by the way. The one that proves nothing less than Universal force can harm him. Just because you ignore the question doesn’t mean I didn’t ask it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Did you miss my scan? I even underlined the words. In what appeared to be a simple slugfest, Seth/Odin were fighting –on every plane of reality- and the aftershocks of their battle were destroying Galaxies etc.

How are you still not satisfied? Also, lawlz at using the Sentry as analogy for Odin.

The scan showed Odin blasting when it was stated. Thus we can't assume Odin ever punched at X power, especially when it said "Resemble", which doesn't mean it actually happened.

Based on what exactly? Thor might have been stronger than Odin in the JIM days (At least based on a comment by Loki) but that was promptly forgotten -before even Kirby was off the title- and it was made very clear that Odin was far and away above Thor. I'd have no problem with it if you made a guess but you have absolutely no grounds for conclusively claiming that Odin at any point in his history was weaker than Thor physically. Especially since the brothers retcon by Walt -that came a decade later- holds no weight any longer. And no, handbook nonsense doesn't count as evidence.

You need to stop referencing Norse mythology, it has no value here.

I'm not making up this shit up, the Odin Force augments the wielder across the board. Just because you refuse to accept any evidence I post or just ignore it doesn't mean it's not there. He has.

A significantly weakened Odin one shots Ulik:
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/788/thorvol252702508.jpg

But I'm sure that you'll once again ignore this evidence or find something unsatisfactory with it.

You ignoring what I said. I didn't claim that Odin force doesn't amp strength or durability. I said, you can't give any amount in which it can without on panel proof. For example, you can't say that Odin can turn X percent of his power into strength without showing it on panel of him doing it.

I’m tired of holding your hand, apply some critical thinking. Heimdall only possessed a fraction of the Odin Force when he did that. The All-Father has the entire well to drawn on, in that same position he would have done at least as well. DeFalco also wrote a drained Odin with spasms of weakness shrug off Annihilus’ blasts:

Here the combined might of Thor, Balder, the Warrior’s Three, Heimdall and a few other of the strongest Asgardians strikes an entranced Odin (He was growing weaker by the moment as Infinity gained control) and it barely manages to knock him over (Absolutely no damage was done):

Here Odin is unharmed by a direct strike from the Twilight Sword to the head:

Contradictory? Oh yes, Odin felt Thor’s hit under Fraction. Thankfully you only go by the characters best showings so it doesn’t matter. 🙂

Like I said, Odin is far above Thor physically. The same goes for the Juggernaut, he wins this thread in a spite stomp.

I’m still waiting on that Juggernaut feat by the way. The one that proves nothing less than Universal force can harm him. Just because you ignore the question doesn’t mean I didn’t ask it.

Well my view is that Juggs is absolutely indestructible from pure physical forces. But in this thread I'm willing to assume he can be damaged with a 20x more force than Thor's mightiest slam.
But you failed to show that Odin can punch with more than 20x the power of Thor's mightiest slams.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin's battle with Seth was stated to resemble a simple slug fest (with some energy blasts tossed into it) and in spite of that, the effects of their battle was felt across reality itself.

Further more, the OP has stated that Odin can do anything he wants here so long as he doesn't

A.) Directly remove/cancel the enchantment of Juggernaut's forcefield/durability.

or

B.) Mindrape him.

Odin doesn't need to do either in order to rage stomp Cain. Conversely, what can Juggernaut do to harm Odin?

The scan showed Odin blasting when it was stated. Thus we can't assume Odin ever punched at X power, especially when it said "Resemble". No, Odin isn't allow to shoot energy blasts or anything exotic but just fight with his fists. So how is Odin can do whatever he wants?

Whether Juggs can harm Odin well enough has nothing to do with Odin not being able to defeat Juggs under these stips.

I don't understand h1, why do you go to such extreme lengths in order to avoid admitting you were wrong or changing your stance? It's not some sign of weakness, just maturity. Willful ignorance is the worst kind.

Anyways, give me a few minutes while I eat and then I'll reply. Gotta admit, I'm proud of myself for actually attempting to convince you with evidence for this long. Didn't think I could do it.

Originally posted by h1a8
The scan showed Odin blasting when it was stated. Thus we can't assume Odin ever punched at X power, especially when it said "Resemble", which doesn't mean it actually happened.

Irrelevant, the statement was clearly referencing the entire battle, hence the word slug fest. The word is appears (At least pretend like you read the the scans I post) and it was in reference to the battle being far more than the eye can see.

If you disagree with any of the above, I can get try getting a confirmation from the writer. Maybe a mod ruling.

Originally posted by h1a8
Why argue irrelevant stuff? My point still stands, the strength feats of the Odin Force are not commutative.

You claimed that Odin was conclusively weaker than Thor, you have absolutely no grounds for making such a claim. That's why I discussed the topic.

Just because you ignore any responses that you can't answer, doesn't mean that they weren't made.

Originally posted by h1a8
You ignoring what I said. I didn't claim that Odin force doesn't amp strength or durability. I said, you can't give any amount in which it can without on panel proof. For example, you can't say that Odin can turn X percent of his power into strength without showing it on panel of him doing it.

Like I said, the speed thing was tongue-in-cheek, don't worry though, I'll be applying your criteria for the remainder of this discussion.

I already posted scans but they still aren't good enough.

Originally posted by h1a8
Again Heimdalls feats are not commutative to Odin especially if Odin didn't no sell Thor's hammer blow recently.

Yes it is. Irrelevant evidence as to you nothing but the absolute best feats count, and Heimdall shrugging off that blow with only a portion of the Odin Force fits.

Originally posted by h1a8
What is the context of this feat? What issues are these? Anyway if the context pans out then I would say that's a good durability feat by Odin. But it still doesn't show that Odin can even tickle Juggernaut.

The context is all in the scans. It's from Thor #188. It should be noted that in the original story, Odin was even weaker than normal because Infinity was a portion of Odin's soul/power gone rogue.

It's leaps and bounds better than the Juggernaut durability feat you're harping on.

Originally posted by h1a8
It doesn't appear that Odin got struck onto his skin with the Twilight Sword. We seen an aura of energy surrounding Odin, which could have be used like a forcefield. Plus Odin is holding his scepter as well.

It's up to you to prove that the aura of power around Odin was a force field.

It wasn't present in the panel before Surtur attacked and we see Odin's helmet in the air split in half so it's clear that Surtur struck him directly on the head.

Originally posted by h1a8
I still disagree. Odin is above Thor physically (more so in durability) but not far above him.

It doesn't matter that you disagree. Odin one shotted Ulik while significantly drained of power. He's far above Thor.

Originally posted by h1a8
Well my view is that Juggs is absolutely indestructible from pure physical forces. But in this thread I'm willing to assume he can be damaged with a 20x more force than Thor's mightiest slam.
But you failed to show that Odin can punch with more than 20x the power of Thor's mightiest slams.

Your opinion is irrelevant, we're going by on panel evidence. What on panel evidence is there to support Juggernaut being absolutely indestructible to pure physical force under Universal? Either post scans or admit to being a liar.

I tried but you refuse to accept anything that doesn't fit into your preconceived notions so I'm done with that angle. According to the OP, Odin can do anything as long as it doesn't involve mind raping or power draining:

Originally posted by janus77
Yes blasts count.

Let me put it another way, NO MAGIC CANCELLATION and NO MIND ****ING.

Odin is free to beat up on Juggernaut any way and how, so long as it's not cancelling out Juggernaut's powers or trying to mind manipulate him.

He rapes Juggernaut.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Irrelevant, the statement was clearly referencing the entire battle, hence the word slug fest. The word is appears (At least pretend like you read the the scans I post) and it was in reference to the battle being far more than the eye can see.

You claimed that Odin was conclusively weaker than Thor, you have absolutely no grounds for making such a claim. That's why I discussed the topic.

Just because you ignore any responses that you can't answer, doesn't mean that they weren't made.

Like I said, the speed thing was tongue-in-cheek, don't worry though, I'll be applying your criteria for the remainder of this discussion.

I already posted scans but they still aren't good enough.

Yes it is. Irrelevant evidence as to you nothing but the absolute best feats count, and Heimdall shrugging off that blow with only a portion of the Odin Force fits.

The context is all in the scans. It's from Thor #188. It should be noted that in the original story, Odin was even weaker than normal because Infinity was a portion of Odin's soul/power gone rogue.

It's leaps and bounds better than the Juggernaut durability feat you're harping on.

It's up to you to prove that the aura of power around Odin was a force field.

It wasn't present in the panel before Surtur attacked and we see Odin's helmet in the air split in half so it's clear that Surtur struck him directly on the head.

It doesn't matter that you disagree. Odin one shotted Ulik while significantly drained of power. He's far above Thor.

Your opinion is irrelevant, we're going by on panel evidence. What on panel evidence is there to support Juggernaut being absolutely indestructible to pure physical force under Universal? Either post scans or admit to being a liar.

I tried but you refuse to accept anything that doesn't fit into your preconceived notions so I'm done with that angle. According to the OP, Odin can do anything as long as it doesn't involve mind raping or power draining:

He rapes Juggernaut.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yet we see only Odin blasting. go figure.

Also you are forgetting a key word: Resembled.

🙂

Going to have to find another excuse.

Not forgetting anything. Unless English isn't your first language, there's no excuse for any confusion regarding such clear text.

Originally posted by h1a8
I conceded over a month ago that Odin was stronger than Thor. If you read what I said in my previous posts right before this one you will know.

You said that Odin was originally weaker than Thor and that he was created to be the strongest of the Asgardians. I completely destroyed whatever flimsy argument you had, not my problem if that upsets you.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'll look it up. Could be Odin was amped? Probably not though. I have no problem accepting the feat as a good durability feat for him.
Also, durability is not punching power. Otherwise Juggs can punch harder than WBH.

No. Irrelevant and horrible analogy.

Originally posted by h1a8
You made the implied claim that Odin got struck on the skin. The scan has lots of problems showing that, especially with all the energy coming from Odin. Even if the helmet got struck then that still isn't Odin's skin.

I said "Here Odin is unharmed by a direct strike from the Twilight Sword to the head." and this statement is valid.

It is up to you, to prove that the power glow emanating from Odin was any type of force field. Any more such claims without on panel evidence will be considered irrelevant.

There's no way you can be this mind numbingly stupid. The fact that the Twilight Sword's blow split Odin's helmet not only indicates that the glow was no force field, it proves that the blow struck him upside the head. Unless you think a regular Asgardian helm can actually negate all of the power produced by Surtur's swing.

Hint: It can't negate any.

Not to mention that the glow you're referring to happens afterward.

Originally posted by h1a8
That doesn't mean that. Thor can one shot Ulik too with his mightiest slam. So Odin's punch equaled a Thor's mightiest slam. That means Odin is stronger but not far stronger.

Of course it does. Odin one shotted punched Ulik while significantly weakened, it indicates a vast difference in strength.

And here Odin effortlessly breaks out of the force block which managed to contain Blood and Thunder Thor:

Originally posted by h1a8
My opinion is not irrelevant to me. So how am I a liar? But Juggs can be hurt with 20x more Thor slam force is what I'm entertaining here. So nothing else matters in the discussion.

It is absolutely irrelevant in a debate based purely on the best on panel feats if it is not supported by comic book evidence. You said nothing less than Universal level force can harm Juggernaut according to his best showings. Either you know of such feats or you lied.

Entertaining the idea? 😂

That's what you call me utterly annihilating your previous stance regarding Juggernaut? Lawlz.

Originally posted by h1a8
This is a fist fight. Odin can't do anything since that would contradict that. Clearly the OP meant Odin can amp his strength and durability levels if needed. Nothing more.

The OP said blasts and everything else count in the post I quoted. If you dislike his specifications, go make your own thread.