Ulic Qel-Droma versus the Jedi Exile.

Originally posted by Borbarad
No. I did just state that I don't see Kreia or the Exile defeating somebody like Sadow or Kun because she practically states that she is inferior to Sadow. There is nothing to debate here.

Right dude. The next person coming up with armies of tangible illusions was...not Aleema Keto but DE Luke Skywalker on the Dark Side. And while that action alone is pretty damn impressive, Sadow apparently knew some quite uncommon techniques. Rip the spirit of a force user out of his body ? Store spirits of Jedi in Sith crystals ? Force drain ? And in addition some nice amount of Sith gimmics including his amulet. The guy with his amassed power, knowledge and tools is definetely more impressive than most "ancient" SW characters.

WTF ? Are you confusing Sadow with Kun or Nadd ? Apparently Sadow left an entire alchemical apparatus behind and enough knowledge to have...

b) ...the omiscient narrator saying that Kun enters "a world of Sith magic" when he discovers what Sadow left behind.

Gosh, I accuse you of being a troll. You deny it and come up with more trolling. Hooray. 🙄 [/B]

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except I've made my case on the other forum and have yet to receive a response for 3 days in terms of Kun's force drain. Since you can't prove that it was Kun doing the drain and since the scan is 100% inconclusive, the point about him doing the force drain by himself is moot. Furthermore, you don't know when Sadow learned these techniques. For all you know, he learned them on Yavin IV. In fact, that's the most plausable explanation since he didn't exactly impress while the DLOTS. ALso, notice how Aleema was able to create giant creatures while in her meditation sphere. Looks like those two needed the sphere to do something on that level, while Luke didn't.

Oh my god.
Can you tell me one thing: If Kun wasn't capable of performing a force drain then how the hell do you think he would have been able to construct various machines (assuming the mentioned "Sith power objects" in the comics are some of them, adding the Dark Reaper) that are based on that very technique ? Right. He can't.

And are you stupid, DS ? You really want to assume that Sadow learned everything he could do in a relative short amount of time on Yavin 4 instead in more than a century in which he studied Sith magic (for example under Simus) ? Not that it would even matter because Sadow in his top shape apparently knew the techniques and he obviously left the stuff for Kun to study.

Aside of that: A meditation sphere would help people to use their force powers how exactly except granting them a quiet enviroment to focus on their force use completely ? I've never seen anything to suggest that a medidation sphere does anything else but that (e.g. boosting somebodies force powers or something similar).

Which he most likely learned on Yavin IV. IF you notice at the end of FOTSE, he had one scroll with him.

Which is again blatant bullshit. He studied the force for more than a century before. And in case you can't figure it out yourself: Most people have the greater part of their knowledge in their head or do you carry around several books with you everywhere you go. Not to mention that your conclusion that because we see Sadow holding a single scroll in his hand at the end of FOTSE he just could have that single scroll with him is pretty stupid.

I highly doubt you can substantiate that hyperbole.

And I highly doubt that I have to substantiate quotes of the omniscient narrator, especially when we see what Kun was capable of doing after studying the stuff Sadow left behind for some weeks / months.

Considering the fact that it's usually you who initiates the childish name calling and the random inconsequential bullshit, I'd say you were the troll.

Wow. Considering that "trolling" doesn't mean "namecalling" I guess you're the guy here who doesn't know what the term means, eh ? But let me explain it to you: It's a term for spouting out antagonizing posts on a forum without having a reason to do so. In this case you're trying to argue Sadow's power despite of the fact that you agree with me that neither the Exile nor Kreia would have a chance against him or Kun. Reason for that ? Apparently none ? Conclusion: Troll. Anything else to say, DS ?

Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh my god.
Can you tell me one thing: If Kun wasn't capable of performing a force drain then how the hell do you think he would have been able to construct various machines (assuming the mentioned "Sith power objects" in the comics are some of them, adding the Dark Reaper) that are based on that very technique ? Right. He can't.

And are you stupid, DS ? You really want to assume that Sadow learned everything he could do in a relative short amount of time on Yavin 4 instead in more than a century in which he studied Sith magic (for example under Simus) ? Not that it would even matter because Sadow in his top shape apparently knew the techniques and he obviously left the stuff for Kun to study.

Which is again blatant bullshit. He studied the force for more than a century before. And in case you can't figure it out yourself: Most people have the greater part of their knowledge in their head or do you carry around several books with you everywhere you go. Not to mention that your conclusion that because we see Sadow holding a single scroll in his hand at the end of FOTSE he just could have that single scroll with him is pretty stupid.

And I highly doubt that I have to substantiate quotes of the omniscient narrator, especially when we see what Kun was capable of doing after studying the stuff Sadow left behind for some weeks / months.

Wow. Considering that "trolling" doesn't mean "namecalling" I guess you're the guy here who doesn't know what the term means, eh ? But let me explain it to you: It's a term for spouting out antagonizing posts on a forum without having a reason to do so. In this case you're trying to argue Sadow's power despite of the fact that you agree with me that neither the Exile nor Kreia would have a chance against him or Kun. Reason for that ? Apparently none ? Conclusion: Troll. Anything else to say, DS ? [/B]

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
This is incredibly stupid and wtfpwned your own argument. The answer is easy. It's the same reason why Sadow needed the ship to tear the core out of the sun, the same reason why Kun needed the amulet to perform the blasts, and the same reason most of the ancient sith used amulets. BECAUSE THEY COULDNT DO IT THEMSELVES.

Dude. That examples would actually apply if:
a) Sadow couldn't use telekinesis
b) Kun couldn't project beams of Dark Side energy

Apparently both premises are wrong. Because they can do the stuff if - and that is the only point here - only on a smaller scale. That, however, doesn't change the fact that Kun obviously knew the technique and therefor was able to use it. Regardless if he did it with the Massassi or used some machines he constructed himself to do it. KKTHXBYE.

My argument was that he brought one sheet of paper with him. The comics reinforce my point. Burden of proof is on you.

No. Your argument is that Sadow's entire knowledge (note: after studying Sith Magic and Alchemy for more than a century) is equal to one sheet of paper. That's simply ridiculous. Especially if you consider that Odan finds one holocron on some random Sith ship at the end of the comic and especially if you consider what Kun later finds in Sadows former possessions.

No it's not stupid, it's fact. He may have had a LOT of knowledge in his head, but that scroll was ALL he appeared to have.

You can't be that stupid. Really. You simply can't be.

6 months to be exact.

No. That's the time passing between the end of DLOTS and the beginning of TSW. But we neither know how much time Kun had to study the stuff before going to confront Ulic and we neither know exactly how long the Sith War did actually last.

Yea, you're a trolling idiot. Everytime you post you include some useless insult because you can't get your point across or you are arguing out of ignorance, ergo your posts are meant to do nothing but antagonize.. Thanks for playing, troll.

No need to lose your temper, kid. We both know who of us two got banned over and over on several boards for trolling, right ? You can keep talking but I guess reality doesn't care much about your rants. But please keep it coming. I find that stuff highly amusing. Especially since you seem to think that somebody actually cares. Maybe somebody does. I, however, don't.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Allankles, you are the only one on any of these forums that doesn't know when to shut up, especially after you've been pwned for about 6 pages. Seriously, you have no argument, nor did you ever, so shut up.

Please Saxy we've been through this before. How about you show an inlking of an ability to reason, and realize that posting this bs is NEVER relevant. Especially, when you don't address a single counter argument. Every idiot and their pet can write this bs. Seriously you have no argument, nor did you ever, so shut up.

Originally posted by Borbarad
No, it isn't - given the exact words of Kreia's quote which are:
"If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters."

How many times have we had this argument? And how many times has it been refuted? Really, you people like to throw quotes around loosely without considering context. Kreia only mentions: "if you were to face the ancients in combat you would be as children playing with toys", when the Exile asks about the reasons for Tulak Hords exceptional LIGHTSABER mastery.

The answer by Kreia (the quote) relates to LIGHTSABER combat specifically. And Sadow and his cadre of OVERRATED Sith Lords NEVER used lightsabers.

Therefore Kreia was never referring to the ancients from the comics -why would she, when the comics display them as weak combatants? But a different generation that actually used lightsabers.

Do you understand the significance of context here or do I need to metaphorically beat you over the head here with concepts of supporting evidence?

Originally posted by Borbarad

Apparently you don't have a grasp of the concept called "fiction". That something is fictional doesn't mean that "anything goes" and that rules defined for a fictional universe suddenly don't apply to that universe any longer because you don't want them to. It also doesn't mean that concepts from the real world don't apply to the fictional realm.

Riight? So according to Einstein here there are specific rules defining whether or not a Jedi can control three lightsabers? And I'm guessing there were rules defining whether or not a Jedi could become immortal? Or drain planets of life? Or shoot emerald lightning from their a**? When are you going to stop making a fool of yourself?

What we have here is a man who doesn't know when to draw the line between opinions generated from his own fan fiction, and fiction itself, as an avenue of NEW ideas entirely independent from reality.

Apparently the idea of telekinetically controlling three lightsabers is so exceptionally foreign to the concept of the force, that Nai can't accept it. I'll say it again, get the f**k out of here with this idiocy.

Originally posted by Allankles
How many times have we had this argument? And how many times has it been refuted? Really, you people like to throw quotes around loosely without considering context. Kreia only mentions: "if you were to face the ancients in combat you would be as children playing with toys", when the Exile asks about the reasons for Tulak Hords exceptional LIGHTSABER mastery.

I have provided the exact quote, didn't I ? Yes.
Does Kreia mention lightsabers anywhere ? Nope.
Does Kreia specify a certain era or a group of Sith Lords somewhere ? Nope.

The answer by Kreia (the quote) relates to LIGHTSABER combat specifically. And Sadow and his cadre of OVERRATED Sith Lords NEVER used lightsabers.

She talks about the combat prowess of the Ancient Sith. I don't see where you are pulling the lightsabers from. To have that making sense you would have to assume that a lightsaber is somehow superior to the swords the ancient Sith carry around. And that, dear friend, would be illogical as they obviously sacrificed the lightsaber technology to use those swords. That aside from the fact that there isn't much difference between wielding a lightsaber and a regular saber. If you did read Path of Destruction you'd see that the Sith are actually utilizing metal blades for training.

Therefore Kreia was never referring to the ancients from the comics -why would she, when the comics display them as weak combatants? But a different generation that actually used lightsabers.

First: Stupid conclusion. You're clearly talking out of your ass once more. Why would Kreia mention "Ancient Sith" right in front of the tombs of two Sith Lords appearing in the comics but just refer to some assorted group of Ancient Sith that used lightsabers (which are completely non-existant outside the realm of KotoR in other words the only member of such group would be Tulak Hord - as in the overall continuity, the Sith are wielding swords from the beginning of the Sith Empire to it's end).

Second: How the hell are they depicted as "weak" in combat. There freaking minions are descriped as unstoppable army that even battle meditation is completely useless against and the only Sith Lords we really see fighting in the comics are Sadow and Kressh - against each other. I wonder how you draw the conclusion there, that they must have sucked in combat when they apparently move their blades fast enough to have afterimages appear behind their weapons and they are just fighting another Sith Lord. Holy shit.

Third: If you want to go by what is shown in the comics without giving a thought about the limitations of the medium I'll go by the gameplay of the KotoR games. I guess we can rest the discussion instantly then given how the characters in KotoR perform combat, eh ?

Do you understand the significance of context here or do I need to metaphorically beat you over the head here with concepts of supporting evidence?

Do you understand that, if we follow your dumbass interpretation attempt, Kreia should have said: "If we were to face Tulak Hord in lightsaber combat, we would look like children playing with toys because of the lightsaber combat prowess of the ancient masters." instead of dropping the line she actually said. Because Tulak Hord is the only Ancient Sith Lord that has ever used a lightsaber. Not to mention that you would have to assume that a Sith Lord would absolutely suck against a lightsaber user - and in this case I have to laugh since Jaden Korr apparently had some problems with beating Ragnos spirit posessing a midiocre force user wielding a Sith sword. Ups ?

Riight? So according to Einstein here there are specific rules defining whether or not a Jedi can control three lightsabers? And I'm guessing there were rules defining whether or not a Jedi could become immortal? Or drain planets of life? Or shoot emerald lightning from their a**? When are you going to stop making a fool of yourself?

Are you simply retarded or completely inable to follow a line of thought - even if it's your own ?

What we have here is a man who doesn't know when to draw the line between opinions generated from his own fan fiction, and fiction itself, as an avenue of NEW ideas entirely independent from reality.

Yes. And that man is you. Explanation follows:

Apparently the idea of telekinetically controlling three lightsabers is so exceptionally foreign to the concept of the force, that Nai can't accept it. I'll say it again, get the f**k out of here with this idiocy.

Why can't you simply get it into your f*cking head. No the idea of telekinetically controllign three lightsabers is the "complicated" thing here but your idea that somebody can use TK to control three lightsabers in such a way that those three sabers will pose a greater thread than one lightsaber wielded by hand. Got that now. Because to have three lightsabers performing some pseudo-whirlwind-of-death lightsaber movements, one would need to know how to coordinated three lightsabers (which nobody does because normally you can't wield more than two) while coordinating two is already reserved (in most cases) to extremely skilled lightsaber duellists. Yet add one. And then add the fact that force use would require additional focus (aside from the brain task to have those lightsabers moving in a deadly fashion).

You can talk as much as you want but I don't see anything to suggest that Kreia levitating those three blades was more deadly than the same Kreia fighting with a lightsaber in her hand before. It was a desperate movement because she lost her weaponhand and the game (argue that this are game mechanics...I don't care) depicts her as doing nothing special with those blades. If you just come here to force down your interpretation as fact - don't come back. Won't work.

Look, Nai, for the last damn time, KREIA IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE!

Unless you have a quote from the NEC or some other canon source that proves her right, your argument using her quote is basically dead before it started.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Dude. That examples would actually apply if:
a) Sadow couldn't use telekinesis
b) Kun couldn't project beams of Dark Side energy

Apparently both premises are wrong. Because they can do the stuff if - and that is the only point here - only on a smaller scale. That, however, doesn't change the fact that Kun obviously knew the technique and therefor was able to use it. Regardless if he did it with the Massassi or used some machines he constructed himself to do it. KKTHXBYE.

No. Your argument is that Sadow's entire knowledge (note: after studying Sith Magic and Alchemy for more than a century) is equal to one sheet of paper. That's simply ridiculous. Especially if you consider that Odan finds one holocron on some random Sith ship at the end of the comic and especially if you consider what Kun later finds in Sadows former possessions.

You can't be that stupid. Really. You simply can't be.

No need to lose your temper, kid. We both know who of us two got banned over and over on several boards for trolling, right ? You can keep talking but I guess reality doesn't care much about your rants. But please keep it coming. I find that stuff highly amusing. Especially since you seem to think that somebody actually cares. Maybe somebody does. I, however, don't. [/B]

OH NOES, I got banned for being objective based on a bunch of antisocial pseudointellectuals who couldn't debate objectively if I had Jenna Jameson pull down their pants! Good point there Nai, kudos to your internet popularity. I'm glad you find this amusing, I'm sure the rest of this forum finds your ancient sith banter even more hilarious.

Once again, we see some major discrepency with the use of in-universe sources. Let's be objective about it; Kreia was a historian with an obvious penchant for Sith-related subjects. To say that her opinion is completely unfounded would be ridiculous, as it was essentially her passion to understand such things.

That said, I also find it obtuse to treat her statements as if they are the end all be end all. They aren't. Ultimately, she is a fallible third party source, and her quotes are to be treated as supportive in nature. In the legal system, even the professional opinion of a trained and licensed psychiatrist or historian or what have you is not -- in most cases -- the basis for a final verdict. Otherwise, Kreia's quotes concerning Revan must also be taken into consideration and be treated with equal regard, as well as any quote made by the historians of the various sourcebooks.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
NO, those apply because without the ship, Sadow can't tear the core from the suns and without the amulet, Kun can't blast anybody. Considering the fact that it's a sith ritual, it stands that Kun needed the obelisk to perform the ritual.

The "ritual" consist of Kun calling his Massassi and have them standing around in the temple. That influences the force use how exactly ? Right: It doesn't. He obviously didn't have hours of time to set up some obscure ritual. And sorry...you call the source material "inconclusive" and at the same time use it as "proof" for your opinion. I might not be able to proof beyond doubt that Kun performed the drain on his own - but you can't proof that he needed the obelisk for the drain either. So what ?

And Sadow obviously knew the technique to tear the core from stars. He just couldn't do it himself. Thanks for playing.

You, sir, are a stupid moron. Yes he obviously knew telekinesis (which was used to tear the core of the star off) because he wasn't in his ship while throwing bricks at Kressh obviously. He couldn't reproduce it on that scale without his ship most likely (and we don't know that exactly actually). But notice how I was just mentioning the force drain in a speculative events in which Kun might use it against Revan. Since he knew the corresponding technique (obviously) it's hard to believe he can't apply it against a single target. Against tens of thousands ? Well...even that is arguable.

Actually no, I believe I know what I stated, and I said that Sadow came to Yavin IV with ONE sheet of paper, which he did. Why are you arguing this fact.

Because it's stupid to assume that he came with just that paper. Especially when we see Sith Holocrons being carried around on random ships and if we consider what Kun did find later. How does it even matter what he carried with him in the form of scrolls, holocrons or similar stuff ? What matters is what Sadow had in his head and obviously left behind for Kun. When he came up with that or when he put it down on scrolls are nonissues here.

You're getting pwned in this debate, so if I'm stupid, what does that make you.

Yeah, dude. Do some reality check before coming up with statements like that. You're totally ignoring the context of what I'm typing down to come up with some useless antagonizing. God knows why. So I'm really asking myself how I can be "pwned" in a debate when you're not even debating but trying to throw some pointless bullshit at me.

I'm actually not angry. Since you include an insult in every post, it's reasonable to assume that you're angry over worthless debates, especially ones you can't win.

Wow. You consider debating with you worthless yourself ? Thanks. That's exactly what I thought when I skimmed through your pointless rants.

OH NOES, I got banned for being objective based on a bunch of antisocial pseudointellectuals who couldn't debate objectively if I had Jenna Jameson pull down their pants! Good point there Nai, kudos to your internet popularity. I'm glad you find this amusing, I'm sure the rest of this forum finds your ancient sith banter even more hilarious.

Oh noes.
First: You got banned for trolling. Reality 1 TDTD 0.

Second: Apparently everywhere you're confronted with antisocial pseudointellectuals in positions of moderators because you got banned here too, right tdtd ? Reality 2 TDTD 0.

Third: What people on this forum find hilarious falls under the category of "How much do I care about my internet popularity ? I don't give a flying f*ck". But if you check your reactions to your old account TDTD, consider the fact that you're just here because you're socking (and nobody seems to care despite of the board rules) and - using some good old appeal to majority - I'd say there are quite more people that find you hilarious here than me. That would be: Reality 3 TDTD 0.

And now you can nail here [x] to receive a new monitor. The only other good advice I have for you consists of three words: The, Ra, Py. So go on with your trolling. It's just getting more funny every time you hit the reply button.

Originally posted by Borbarad
The "ritual" consist of Kun calling his Massassi and have them standing around in the temple. That influences the force use how exactly ? Right: It doesn't. He obviously didn't have hours of time to set up some obscure ritual. And sorry...you call the source material "inconclusive" and at the same time use it as "proof" for your opinion. I might not be able to proof beyond doubt that Kun performed the drain on his own - but you can't proof that he needed the obelisk for the drain either. So what ?

You, sir, are a stupid moron. Yes he obviously knew telekinesis (which was used to tear the core of the star off) because he wasn't in his ship while throwing bricks at Kressh obviously. He couldn't reproduce it on that scale without his ship most likely (and we don't know that exactly actually). But notice how I was just mentioning the force drain in a speculative events in which Kun might use it against Revan. Since he knew the corresponding technique (obviously) it's hard to believe he can't apply it against a single target. Against tens of thousands ? Well...even that is arguable.

Because it's stupid to assume that he came with just that paper. Especially when we see Sith Holocrons being carried around on random ships and if we consider what Kun did find later. How does it even matter what he carried with him in the form of scrolls, holocrons or similar stuff ? What matters is what Sadow had in his head and obviously left behind for Kun. When he came up with that or when he put it down on scrolls are nonissues here.

Yeah, dude. Do some reality check before coming up with statements like that. You're totally ignoring the context of what I'm typing down to come up with some useless antagonizing. God knows why. So I'm really asking myself how I can be "pwned" in a debate when you're not even debating but trying to throw some pointless bullshit at me.

Wow. You consider debating with you worthless yourself ? Thanks. That's exactly what I thought when I skimmed through your pointless rants.

First: You got banned for trolling. Reality 1 TDTD 0.

Second: Apparently everywhere you're confronted with antisocial pseudointellectuals in positions of moderators because you got banned here too, right tdtd ? Reality 2 TDTD 0.

Third: What people on this forum find hilarious falls under the category of "How much do I care about my internet popularity ? I don't give a flying f*ck". But if you check your reactions to your old account TDTD, consider the fact that you're just here because you're socking (and nobody seems to care despite of the board rules) and - using some good old appeal to majority - I'd say there are quite more people that find you hilarious here than me. That would be: Reality 3 TDTD 0.

And now you can nail here [x] to receive a new monitor. The only other good advice I have for you consists of three words: The, Ra, Py. So go on with your trolling. It's just getting more funny every time you hit the reply button. [/B]

Whats funny is your posts claiming "logic this logic that". Stop embarassing yourself Nai. It's sad.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
It's a ritual you homo. Remember when Sidious used a sith ritual to hit coruscant with lightning, anger Anakin, and bring the ancient sith spirits back from hell? Do you know why he used a ritual? BECAUSE HE HAD NO WAY OF DOING IT HIMSELF.

Read that. If you don't notice something, read it again. And again. And again. So because of the inability to do something you perform a ritual to do it ? That's what I call a great argument. 🙄

Do you know why Sadow needed the ship? Because he couldn't do it himself. Why was there a drain ritual? Because Kun wasn't capable of draining everybody himself ala Sidious or Nihilus. Not to mention I don't have to prove that Kun needed the orbelisk. There is nothing that states it was Kun who drained the Massassi. Judging by the picture and the inconclusive evidence, the burden of proof is on you to prove that Kun drained the Massassi himself. So start doing some homework.

Dude. For the last damn time: Kun constructed machine to use a force drain. So he must have knowledge of the technique. That was all I was talking about. Got it into your head now ? I don't care if he can drain thousands of individuals at once or if he can't do it. Because it doesn't matter for my original point. Which was, to remind you once more: Kun did have knowledge about the force drain technique.

How could I be a stupid moron?

Oh right. Complete moron would be the approbiate description.

You sound stupid just for saying that. Do they not teach redundancy in Germany Nai? Shut up already.

I love how you don't even question my assertion that you are a moron but instead come back at me with that crap. So after we have established that you are in fact a moron, I guess it's time for you to shut up, eh ?

Yes, I'm aware Sadow knew basic telekinesis. So did every jedi who had an kind of training. Explain how this is on the level of tearing the core from the star? HE couldn't produce it without his ship most likely? Wow Nai, thats hilarious. I have no doubt Exar Kun "knew" the technique. Just like Revan "knew" the force storm, the other force storm, and the thought bomb (along with other various ancient sith techniques). In no way does that mean he could perform the feats himself.

How about reading my posts before hitting the quote button, Darth Shithead ? Must be a task too hard for you. And how could Exar Kun construct machines imbued with the ability to execute a force drain without being capable of using said technique ? He did this at least once (with the Dark Reaper). If you want to stay with your oppinion that the obelisk was another device capable of performing that force power - he did it twice. I'd really like to see your explanation for this if he wasn't able to execute the technique regardless of scale (aka directed against a single target).

It's stupid to assume? It's 100% logical to assume. Anything else borders on mental retardation. Sadow was convinced he had the entire empire under his belt, and that his only enemy was killed in the attack on the decoy moon. Sadow thought he was going to win the war and expand the sith empire. So when you add all of these things together, what in the world would make Sadow take all of his belongings with him? He had a sheet of paper because he was unprepared. I am not arguing he had knowledge of techniques in his head, but he came to Yavin with that piece of paper.

Then why the hell did you bring that "piece of paper" crap anyway ? Oh yes. I've almost forgotten it: YOU'RE A TROLL ! Thanks for providing proof for that fact once more.

I don't consider myself a proficient debater, but the crap you're throwing in now is just ridiculous. You know better than that Nai.

Thanks for not doing anything to answer and keep trolling, troll.

My pointless rants? If by pointless you mean logical to your illogical stupidity, you are correct.

No. By pointless I mean pointless as in "without a point". And you can't gloss over it much since your "logical stuff" has nothing to do with the original topic of the debate because, and wow...that situation is present for some page now, you already agree with me on the outcome of this fight - in fact you also agree with me that Sadow would most likely defeat Kreia or the Exile. Hey. In fact you don't have any reason to argue with me here but you're still doing it. Holy crap.

Except you're still under the delusion that I am tdtd. Good job mr internet.

Except I've never been banned here. Reality 2 stupidity 0.

Allright, dude. Of course you aren't tdtd. My bad. How stupid do you think people are, hmm ?

Now let's have a look at tdtd's profile:
CLICK ME

As we all see, little troll tdtd was banned on Jul 13th 2006.
And when did our little Mr Darth Sexy register on the forum ? My bad. Jul 13th 2006. What a coincidence.

The very same happened on EOD. Date: Jul 27th 2007. "Dave" (aka tdtd) gets banned an "David" (aka you, Darth Sexy) appears on the scene. More coincidence ?

A closer look upon little tdtd's profile reveals, that his AIM Screenname is "Dave111283". And who was running around on EOD as "David" ? Could that have been you, DS ? Another nice coincidence.

And of course the fact that you are (or let's say claim to be) both Jewish and did both attempt a college in Florida. Another bona fide coincidence, I suppose.

Really. You can deny it until you're blue in the face but you are tdtd. So thanks for playing, kid. Next time better try it with somebody that has your IQ. I guess a sandwich shall do nicely for the beginning.

Your poor excuse for logic along with your ineffective attempts at being detective dipshit, I'd say you should quit while you have some dignity left.

I hope you follow your own great advice. NOW would be a good time to do so.

Whats funny is your posts claiming "logic this logic that". Stop embarassing yourself Nai. It's sad.

As words don't seem to reach your brain (where ever it might be...your head would be the last place I would look for it), let us try it with a picture...

So. Troll owned again. Next please.

Originally posted by Borbarad
I have provided the exact quote, didn't I ? Yes.
Does Kreia mention lightsabers anywhere ? Nope.
Does Kreia specify a certain era or a group of Sith Lords somewhere ? Nope.

No. But she's responding directly to the Exile's query on lightsaber dueling in his generation, as compared to the ancients. Therefore going by this context Kreia never makes a comparison of Sadow's generation or any non-lightsaber wielding generation of ancient Sith.

The context in this case involves Tulak Horde's lightsaber combat abilities and then a comparison of dueling capabilities following this context.

Logic dictates then, that Kreia was referring to lightsaber combat, and it can be concluded definitively that Sadow and his ilk were not part of Kreia's comparison. The context is all important, the context determines the substance of Kreia's quote, without considering it you don't have a point.

And don't reply by saying every generation of ancient Sith used swords. We have over a millennium between the fall of the Sith empire and the reemergence of the Sith through Kun. We have I believe, 5000 years or more between the first Jedi civil war and the end of Ragnos' reign.

So there are a lot of unfilled gaps in the time line and Tulak Horde was clearly not part of Sadow's generation, seeing as he used a lightsaber.

Originally posted by Borbarad

You can talk as much as you want but I don't see [b]anything to suggest that Kreia levitating those three blades was more deadly than the same Kreia fighting with a lightsaber in her hand before. It was a desperate movement because she lost her weaponhand and the game (argue that this are game mechanics...I don't care) depicts her as doing nothing special with those blades. If you just come here to force down your interpretation as fact - don't come back. Won't work. [/B]

Someone already explained it. It's an RPG, and in general, a video game formula where the villain demonstrates increasingly more powerful attacks the longer a battle progresses. But you're apparently too stupid and narrow-minded to recognize the significance of such conventional fictional techniques.

But you're welcome to argue this point in circles, continually making a fool of yourself in the process. And no, it would be physically harder to defend against a three pronged attack using one melee weapon, than to attack a single wielding opponent using a three pronged attack (especially when you have great control with TK).

Originally posted by Borbarad
Read that. If you don't notice something, read it again. And again. And again. So because of the inability to do something you perform a ritual to do it ? That's what I call a great argument. 🙄

Dude. For the last damn time: Kun constructed machine to use a force drain. So he must have knowledge of the technique. That was all I was talking about. Got it into your head now ? I don't care if he can drain thousands of individuals at once or if he can't do it. Because it doesn't matter for my original point. Which was, to remind you once more: Kun did have knowledge about the force drain technique.

Oh right. Complete moron would be the approbiate description.

I love how you don't even question my assertion that you are a moron but instead come back at me with that crap. So after we have established that you are in fact a moron, I guess it's time for you to shut up, eh ?

How about reading my posts before hitting the quote button, Darth Shithead ? Must be a task too hard for you. And how could Exar Kun construct machines imbued with the ability to execute a force drain without being capable of using said technique ? He did this at least once (with the Dark Reaper). If you want to stay with your oppinion that the obelisk was another device capable of performing that force power - he did it twice. I'd really like to see your explanation for this if he wasn't able to execute the technique regardless of scale (aka directed against a single target).

Then why the hell did you bring that "piece of paper" crap anyway ? Oh yes. I've almost forgotten it: YOU'RE A TROLL ! Thanks for providing proof for that fact once more.

The very same happened on EOD. Date: Jul 27th 2007. "Dave" (aka tdtd) gets banned an "David" (aka you, Darth Sexy) appears on the scene. More coincidence ?

A closer look upon little tdtd's profile reveals, that his AIM Screenname is "Dave111283". And who was running around on EOD as "David" ? Could that have been you, DS ? Another nice coincidence.

And of course the fact that you are (or let's say claim to be) both Jewish and did both attempt a college in Florida. Another bona fide coincidence, I suppose.

Really. You can deny it until you're blue in the face but you are tdtd. So thanks for playing, kid. Next time better try it with somebody that has your IQ. I guess a sandwich shall do nicely for the beginning.

Originally posted by Allankles
No. But she's responding directly to the Exile's query on lightsaber dueling in his generation, as compared to the ancients. Therefore going by this context Kreia never makes a comparison of Sadow's generation or any non-lightsaber wielding generation of ancient Sith.

The context in this case involves Tulak Horde's lightsaber combat abilities and then a comparison of dueling capabilities following this context.

Logic dictates then, that Kreia was referring to lightsaber combat, and it can be concluded definitively that Sadow and his ilk were not part of Kreia's comparison. The context is all important, the context determines the substance of Kreia's quote, without considering it you don't have a point.

Really. You can't interprete sources like that.

Let me give you example according to your logic.
Question: "How fast is the new Porsche 911 ?"
Answer: "If you were to drive a race against a sportscar, it would make your VW Beetle look like a snail on the road."

Now according to you the person giving the answer can't even possible think that a Lamborghini Diablo is faster than a VW Beetle because the Lamborghini isn't a Porsche.

The point here is that even though the Exile might have asked a question about a specific Sith Lord using a specific fighting method (in this case: lightsaber combat), Kreia's answer refers to all Ancient Sith. She's simply giving her own thoughts about the ancient Sith.

The context is irrelevant here. Basically it looks like this:
Q: "How strong was Tulak Hord with a lightsaber ?"
A: "If you were to face an Ancient Sith in combat, they would kick your ass."

Kreia doesn't exactly answer the question. She simply states her thoughts that the Ancient Sith would tool herself and the Exile in a fictional combat situation. And please...how can you question that when Kreia descripes the Sith Lords in the tombs in front of her as if she was an ancient Sith fanboy ? Not to mention the descriptions given through other sources.

And don't reply by saying every generation of ancient Sith used swords. We have over a millennium between the fall of the Sith empire and the reemergence of the Sith through Kun. We have I believe, 5000 years or more between the first Jedi civil war and the end of Ragnos' reign.

So there are a lot of unfilled gaps in the time line and Tulak Horde was clearly not part of Sadow's generation, seeing as he used a lightsaber.

Excercise in logic: The Ancient Sith Empire was driven to extinction after the "Fall of the Sith Empire" comic. Thus Hord must have lived before that point in time as somebody did built a tomb for him on Korriban which could only have happened before the Republic and the Jedi destroyed the remaining Sith and Massassi.

So the obviously either never used lightsabers or they sacrificed their lightsabers for the use of Sith Swords which would only make sense if those swords where - for whatever reason - better weapons than the lightsabers.

Someone already explained it. It's an RPG, and in general, a video game formula where the villain demonstrates increasingly more powerful attacks the longer a battle progresses. But you're apparently too stupid and narrow-minded to recognize the significance of such conventional fictional techniques.

Apparently you still want to force down your interpretation as undenyable fact. Now you want to use game mechanics as proof that you're right ? Hilarious. Obviously you're too narrow-minded to accept that something out of your own view on the world exists.

The interpretation of games is below pretty much everything else in the SW continuity (with exception for the storyline). I don't see "Kreia must have been better with 3 levitated lightsabers than with one in her hand because that's common RPG design" belonging to the "storyline". The storyline dictates that Kreia lost her hand and had the great choice between "try to defend yourself with levitated lighsabers" or "die / lose without any defence". That aside from the fact that - thanks to the game design - the three lightsabers are easier to defeat than Kreia wielding one.

But you're welcome to argue this point in circles, continually making a fool of yourself in the process. And no, it would be physically harder to defend against a three pronged attack using one melee weapon, than to attack a single wielding opponent using a three pronged attack (especially when you have great control with TK).

Yes, Allankles. IF Kreia could attack with all three lightsabers at once which you still have presented no proof for and IF the Exile didn't counter that with own TK which is not only the logical thing to do but entirely possible in the game. That are some "IFs" too much for me.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No you dumbass fanboy, because there is no proof he has the ability to do the technique.

And now read your original sentence again, and again and again...really.

Are you braindead? Because he knows the technique, he has the ability to perform it? Sadow apparently knew the "tear the core from the stars" technique, yet he couldn't perform it. Sadow apparently knew how to become a special kind of force spirit, which is why there is a ritual. So NOW your point WASNT that Kun knew or didn't know the force drain? Gee, if that's the case, you wouldn't have spent 2 pages arguing out of pure stupidity, and still being wrong.

There is no "tear the core from the stars" technique. That's just telekinesis on a different level. You don't have a point. Yes. Sadow apparently knew how to become a special force spirit...now what ? Again: No point. And once more: I was telling you that Kun apparently knew the force drain technique and is therefore most likely able to use it on a single person if he can imbue it on several objects. What do you want to argue here. Not that it even matters in the first place considering the original argument.

Do morons in germany use B instead of P?

And here the last resort of the owned idiot. "Hey. I found a typo. You suck". Ich weiß ja nicht, wie gut du Fremdsprachen beherrscht, Freundchen. Aber vielleicht würden dir bei 6 von solchen hin und wieder kleine Fehler unterlaufen. Oh right...you don't understand German ? And no: Morons in Germany usually aren't able to speak or write the slightest sentence in a foreign language. But thanks for asking.

Except based on your nonsense for the past 2 pages, we have established that not only are you a stupid fanboy, but your insults get dumber the angrier you get. And you apparently get very angry at text when it owns you.

I didn't see any text here owning me. I'm just entertaining myself with some noob that constantly owns himself and use some insults here and there to feed the troll. Works fine for me so far.

You have got to be the dumbest person on this forum. You are asking how he can create machines without being able to perform a technique? ITS CALLED AMULETS YOU DOLT. ITS WHAT THE ANCIENT SITH (most of them) USED WHEN THEY COULDNT PERFORM THE TECHNIQUE THEMSELVES.

Translation: "I can't really counter your argument, Nai. So let me just toss some bullshit sentence in again."
Can you explain to me once more what the amulets have to do with the construction of something like a Dark Reaper. And when you at it you might also explain to me since when Sith can't project force energy beams any longer. Is Aleema Keto > people who studied the Dark Side over decades now ? Doesn't appear to logical to me.

The fact that I brought evidence and facts into the debate makes me a troll? Good lord, they just let any moron live nowadays. Go mow my lawn tool.

Go play leapfrog with a unicorn, kid. The fact that you're a troll is what makes you a troll.

I didn't join when "Dave" joined. But we've established that you aren't a detective.

Learn how to read, TDTD.

Let me repeat it for the world.
When TDTD got banned from KMC, you joined KMC at the same day.
When TDTD got banned from EOD, you joined EOD at the same day.
You both share the same name, are jewish and live in the same state.

Wow. The list of coincidences will never end. And now STFU, TDTD.

Omg, there must be only ONE PERSON named david in the world!!! Durr

See above. You simply too stupid to produce a fake account that people don't recognize after your first two posts. So you're not just a troll but an extraordinary dumb troll.

When did I ever claim I went to college in Florida? Do you even read half of the bullshit you make up?

Is it so hard to keep track of your own lies, tdtd ? Your introduction post on the EOD forum, dear "David", contains that little statement of yours. Nice how much of your own vita you did forget over the long timespan of two months.

Awww. Pathetic little Nai, all angry because he's getting pwned in a debate he couldn't win from the beginning, so he decides to get Angwwwwwyyyyyy and post stupid pictures. That's cute Nai, you've been owned in this debate.

I guess the little troll is a little bit angry because he's too stupid to create a fake account because he can't live without KMC or EOD for more than 24 hours - and now is being held up to ridicule for it. I'm so sorry, little one. Maybe you will grow up one day (far in the future I guess). Until then you'd better off playing with other kids in your age (12 ? 13 ? 14 ?) instead of trying to debate with people twice as old as you. So let mommy dry your tears with a nice cup of hot chocolade and STFU. Or cry yourself to sleep. Once more...I don't care. And now you can go on ranting with your sock account on my ignore list because you aren't really worth 2 seconds of my free-time.

Bye. *waves hand*