Punisher vs Black Widow.

Originally posted by Sado22
battlehammer.....please get over the fact that we don't have a mancrush on wolverine like you and don't think he can heal the sick, turn water to wine, can walk on the water and sacrificed his healing factor for the sins of humanity. grow up. already.

Also this debate has nothing to do with wolverine and was just foolishness to bring him into it.

Originally posted by Sado22
yea, battlehammer is wasting our time again with his pointless discoveries. i dont care wht DD said or did. the one thing we do know is that frnak could have killed DD on several occasions but didn't since he doesn't kill goodguys. nuff said.

Yea he does not kill goods and yet he gone at DD with out holding back and still got beat. And unlike Punisher, DD is always not willing to kill. So telling me Punisher could have killed DD before means nothing since DD has far more opportunities to Kill Punisher then vice versa.

Originally posted by Sado22
....yadda yadda...pointless facts....yadda yadda...

And yet you over look this fact when you assume that only a brawler can fight dirty and not MA fighters, when simply it untrue and ignorant.

Originally posted by Sado22
....okay so she fights dirty. look where it got her with DD. she lost like everytime. frank beat DD. nuff said.

Yea Frank has beaten DD and he almost be wtf man handle and almost always comes out on the losing end when they collide.

Took you long enough to admit she fights dirty dam.

Originally posted by Sado22
..gee, i didn't know BW is in her late 50's 😐

Actually she older then 50. She was over 10 years old when she met Captain America in 1941. Like I said your ignorant of her character.

Originally posted by Sado22
..the punisher volume4.

Originally posted by Sado22
....................yes.

Originally posted by Sado22
your kidding right? are you going to get into a scientific pointless and utterly baseless discussion on the fact that just cuz frank ko'd a physically superior fighter with a blow he can't do it to one who is not only the inferior fighter but also hsa the inferior physicque?
you're a joke.

At least I have knowledge of what I am discussing and not just talking out my ass like you are.

Originally posted by Sado22
to you dirty is "crying and punching logan in the crotch".
to me its escaping with the person and then shooting him in the balls with an uzi and leaving him there so that the badguy are distracted long enough for you to kill them off with machine guns and grenades.

~Sado

And how would that help him in this scenario? That not even fighting dirty it just plan betraying an ally.

Yea I mean BW never done worse then that she only shot a man she called uncle simple in order to complete a mission and that made up some bullshit story that he was shot saving her and had even capt buying it.

Also this debate has nothing to do with wolverine and was just foolishness to bring him into it

Are you going to keep bitching over and over with useless babble?

and like i said before, stop being such a fangirl. punisher had DD with both his arms dislocated at one point in h2h, had downed him with a blow of his rifle the other time AND one time dropped him with a sound blast. all these times he could have killed him which is exactly my point. they fought over 5 times and 3 times Frank downed him and could have killed him if he wanted. nuff said.

Yea Frank has beaten DD and he almost be wtf man handle and almost always comes out on the losing end when they collide. Took you long enough to admit she fights dirty dam

Actually she older then 50. She was over 10 years old when she met Captain America in 1941. Like I said your ignorant of her character.[/qutoe]
right, right. and now she's older so she automatically wins.

[quote]Im not surprised that you would seeing as you did not even know BW was over 50 years old and have proven yet again why you should not be debating this topic.

Like I said what issue was it in. Stating a random volume is not providing evidence.

Who said DD was physically superior? At least I have knowledge of what I am discussing and not just talking out my ass like you are.

just grow up.
just shut up.

and like i said before, Kenshiro will maul Wolverine.

~Sado

ABC logic sucks for 1. Ok, so Bullseye beat Widow and Punisher beat Bullseye, so that means Punisher beats widow? If thats the case, Punisher beats Elektra, and can fight her and DD at the same time.

Secondly, i dont know why Daredevil fights with Widow and Punisher are being compared. Matt and Tasha were a couple, in love and lovers. DD would never actually try to hurt widow. Same when he fights/spar with Elektra. There are lots of times DD toys with Punisher. Its been said how Punisher doesnt want to kill DD cause hes a hero. Ok, fine. However Punisher is still willing to put a bullet in DD as hes done so before. Hell, Punisher even got tranqs for DD and was still getting served. Am i saying that Punisher never beat DD? Not at all. However its always clear that DD has the advantage over Punisher in most fights and chooses not to seriously hurt him in anyway. Plus DD's won more times than not against Punisher.

As far as Widow goes, all fights with her and DD cant really be gauged because of their relationship. If im not mistaken, when she fought DD, she was under mind control. I could be wrong though. How many times did they fight? 2 or 3? If we're willing to call Punisher shooting DD a win, then we may as well give one to Widow too.

Widow has Punisher beat in speed, agility and h2h skill/ma's. Im not saying that Punisher doesnt beat Widow at all. Im just saying that Widow takes a majority.

Originally posted by Sado22
first of all learn to spell.
with that out of the way, you show your face in every punisher thread and rage on him like a jackass. all because you can't take the fact that punisher has beaten logan. grow up, son.

and yet half of the members at KMC forum seem to ask you just that. in fact i've heard about what kinda moron you are all the way at videogame versus threads. apparently "some jackass" believes that wolverine can beat Kenshiro 😆

and like i said before, stop being such a fangirl. punisher had DD with both his arms dislocated at one point in h2h, had downed him with a blow of his rifle the other time AND one time dropped him with a sound blast. all these times he could have killed him which is exactly my point. they fought over 5 times and 3 times Frank downed him and could have killed him if he wanted. nuff said.

stop your yammering, son.
you might want to read over what you typed again. what matters is who is standing. Frank was. not DD. nuff said.
so far everyone in this thread has been saying that BW always lost to DD. Frank beat DD. still want to continue this cuz like always you're just wasting everyone's time.
and i have no problem admitting things if i'm proven wrong. YOU do.

my heart weeps 😆

my bad then. it was volume3, issue 3.

DD doesn't look physically superior to you, jokeboy.
look man don't waste everyone's time. while i've been providing backup for everything i've said all you've been doing is all the things that make you a joke on KMC:
-you know practicaly squat about punisher
-don't know any of the issues people are talking about
-apparently haven't read them even
-don't even read your own posts and the scans you post which always seem to support the person you're debating with instead of your dumbass.
-and all evidence used against logan is pis or the writer doesne't know what he's talking about.

just grow up.
just shut up.

and like i said before, Kenshiro will maul Wolverine.

~Sado

Logan would have trouble with Amiba or Jagi let alone kenshiro.

What Fist of The North Star Kenshiro? Against Wolverine? Spite.

Originally posted by iceman24567
What Fist of The North Star Kenshiro? Against Wolverine? Spite.

Why the hell are people talking about Kenshiro vs Wolverine-this is a Punisher v Black Widow thread-get back to the subject!

ABC logic sucks for 1. Ok, so Bullseye beat Widow and Punisher beat Bullseye, so that means Punisher beats widow? If thats the case, Punisher beats Elektra, and can fight her and DD at the same time.

the thread seems to suggest a fight and not a sparring contest. that's why i give the majority to Frank. and with frank beating two men that she couldn't does seem to suggest that he's better. and then there is the logan bit.

Secondly, i dont know why Daredevil fights with Widow and Punisher are being compared. Matt and Tasha were a couple, in love and lovers. DD would never actually try to hurt widow. Same when he fights/spar with Elektra. There are lots of times DD toys with Punisher. Its been said how Punisher doesnt want to kill DD cause hes a hero. Ok, fine. However Punisher is still willing to put a bullet in DD as hes done so before. Hell, Punisher even got tranqs for DD and was still getting served. Am i saying that Punisher never beat DD? Not at all. However its always clear that DD has the advantage over Punisher in most fights and chooses not to seriously hurt him in anyway. Plus DD's won more times than not against Punisher.

As far as Widow goes, all fights with her and DD cant really be gauged because of their relationship. If im not mistaken, when she fought DD, she was under mind control. I could be wrong though. How many times did they fight? 2 or 3? If we're willing to call Punisher shooting DD a win, then we may as well give one to Widow too.

Widow has Punisher beat in speed, agility and h2h skill/ma's. Im not saying that Punisher doesnt beat Widow at all. Im just saying that Widow takes a majority.

pretty big spite Kenshiro would destroy wolverine within 5 minutes.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
frank's h2h skills are pretty underrated. he's not as good as DD or Captain America but he's pretty damn good. and he's especially good at taking hits. i'm pretty sure BW can't hit as hard as the Russian did. and frank beat him. in fact he killed him. also if this is a MA fight, then yeah, BW would win.
but its a fight to the death, rest assured frank has great resourcefulness and dirty tactics. i've already brought up him defeating DD on one occassion in a fair h2h fight. with his resourcefulness he's beaten wolverine as well (even though logan got the drop on him).

the thread seems to suggest a fight and not a sparring contest. that's why i give the majority to Frank. and with frank beating two men that she couldn't does seem to suggest that he's better. and then there is the logan bit.

True, Castles h2h skills are underrated, but i dont think they are being underrated here. Im sure everyone knows(whether they like Pun or not) that hes one of the best at taking hits and pain. As far as street lvl'ers go, hes probably top. Not argument there. Now as far as him taking hits from the Russian and saying that Tasha doesnt hit as hard as him may be a fact. Although that may be a fact, strength in punches doesnt really always apply for martial artists. They can use moves that are effective, yet dont require much force to apply. In a fight to the death its still ahrd to say whod win because they both can use deadly tactics. Thing is, Punisher usually does use deadly tactics(when dealing with thugs mostly) and hed be more comfortable with using them.

Yea, this is a fight, but it hasnt been stated what the conditions are here. Whats Punishers normal carrying weapons? Whats he have for this fight? Does Widow get any weapons? Ultimately it just may come down to h2h considering Pun may have a hard time tagging her or he runs out of ammo.

Originally posted by Sado22
frank never shot DD. he did it once in ultimate but that doesn't matter. other than that he's always gone h2h with him instead. he uses his gun as a hitting weapon instead.
again, i'm saying that DD is the better fighter. i've read every comic that came out for the punisher since volume1 (the only thing i've haven't read yet is Punisher MAX and haven't been able to get my hand on the second war journal). the two have gone at it several times but never to a decisive conclusion. most of the time DD attacks a distracted frank, a wounded frank......and always a frank who doesn't want to kill him. the one time frank and DD slugged it out till the end was in Punisher volume4. and frank won it. so i think that holds. but stll, i do concede the fact that DD is the better fighter.

Frank shot DD before and it wasnt ultimate. True it was a tranq, but DD was sot nonetheless. Punisher hasnt always went 2h2 with DD. 9/10 it starts off with Punisher shooting and missing. Are far as DD attacking Frank while hes distracted or wounded, isnt true. The scuffles not being decisive is partly true. Sometimes they arent, but its usually clear who was dominating the fight. True Frank doesnt want to kill him, but DD usually doesnt try to seriously injure Frank. It works both ways.

Originally posted by Sado22
doesn't that really mean that its even worse for widow considering she's losing to someone who is holding back? and frank never shot DD....not that i remember everything but i remember him not shooting. and rest assured he wasn't shooting to kill.

Not really. DD holds back when he fights Punisher too. Difference is, Frank is never mind controlled. As far as the shooting goes, like i mentioned above it happed, but it was a tranq. As far as shooting to kill, its happened. It was stated by Punisher. Frank was just missing.

Originally posted by Sado22
in a spar, yes. in a fight, i doubt it. but i'm willing to concede that i've been underestimating BW. i'll bring it down to 6/10 for Frank on the count of better showings in fights against fast fighters, bigger fighters, stronger fighters, mutant fighters and overall just plain better fighters like Logan, DD and Russian.

To concede that youve been underestimating Widow is big of you. That doesnt happen much here on this forum, lol. In a whole, Punisher does have the better showings, but Tasha has some nice ones as well. I cant be mad at a Punisher win 6/10. I just give Widow the edge because if Pun cant tag her, eventually shed close the gap or hed run out of bullets.

Bah 5/5.

True, Castles h2h skills are underrated, but i dont think they are being underrated here. Im sure everyone knows(whether they like Pun or not) that hes one of the best at taking hits and pain. As far as street lvl'ers go, hes probably top. Not argument there. Now as far as him taking hits from the Russian and saying that Tasha doesnt hit as hard as him may be a fact. Although that may be a fact, strength in punches doesnt really always apply for martial artists. They can use moves that are effective, yet dont require much force to apply. In a fight to the death its still ahrd to say whod win because they both can use deadly tactics. Thing is, Punisher usually does use deadly tactics(when dealing with thugs mostly) and hed be more comfortable with using them.

Yea, this is a fight, but it hasnt been stated what the conditions are here. Whats Punishers normal carrying weapons? Whats he have for this fight? Does Widow get any weapons? Ultimately it just may come down to h2h considering Pun may have a hard time tagging her or he runs out of ammo.

and tasha carries whatever she usually carries.

Frank shot DD before and it wasnt ultimate. True it was a tranq, but DD was sot nonetheless. Punisher hasnt always went 2h2 with DD. 9/10 it starts off with Punisher shooting and missing. Are far as DD attacking Frank while hes distracted or wounded, isnt true. The scuffles not being decisive is partly true. Sometimes they arent, but its usually clear who was dominating the fight. True Frank doesnt want to kill him, but DD usually doesnt try to seriously injure Frank. It works both ways.

as for their scuffles, yeah, DD always dominates. and i even conceded that DD is the better fighter. however, what does make a difference is that the only one time they fought to the finish was ALSO DD dominating but winded up losing. that is my point. i also conceded that BW is the better fighter. i'm just saying that with Frank it is always a lot more about taking hits and presence of mind that MA skills.

and yes, i agree, it DOES work both ways.

Not really. DD holds back when he fights Punisher too. Difference is, Frank is never mind controlled. As far as the shooting goes, like i mentioned above it happed, but it was a tranq. As far as shooting to kill, its happened. It was stated by Punisher. Frank was just missing.

as for DD holding back, true, but then Frank holds back since his full potential is when he's willing to kill. i get what you mean though.

To concede that youve been underestimating Widow is big of you. That doesnt happen much here on this forum, lol. In a whole, Punisher does have the better showings, but Tasha has some nice ones as well. I cant be mad at a Punisher win 6/10. I just give Widow the edge because if Pun cant tag her, eventually shed close the gap or hed run out of bullets. Bah 5/5.

~Sado

Originally posted by jrodslam
ABC logic sucks for 1. Ok, so Bullseye beat Widow and Punisher beat Bullseye, so that means Punisher beats widow? If thats the case, Punisher beats Elektra, and can fight her and DD at the same time.

Secondly, i dont know why Daredevil fights with Widow and Punisher are being compared. Matt and Tasha were a couple, in love and lovers. DD would never actually try to hurt widow. Same when he fights/spar with Elektra. There are lots of times DD toys with Punisher. Its been said how Punisher doesnt want to kill DD cause hes a hero. Ok, fine. However Punisher is still willing to put a bullet in DD as hes done so before. Hell, Punisher even got tranqs for DD and was still getting served. Am i saying that Punisher never beat DD? Not at all. However its always clear that DD has the advantage over Punisher in most fights and chooses not to seriously hurt him in anyway. Plus DD's won more times than not against Punisher.

As far as Widow goes, all fights with her and DD cant really be gauged because of their relationship. If im not mistaken, when she fought DD, she was under mind control. I could be wrong though. How many times did they fight? 2 or 3? If we're willing to call Punisher shooting DD a win, then we may as well give one to Widow too.

Its not ABC logic when Punsiher has beaten TWO people that BW has lost to.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Widow has Punisher beat in speed, agility and h2h skill/ma's. Im not saying that Punisher doesnt beat Widow at all. Im just saying that Widow takes a majority.

how on earth is she winning the majority when Frank has beaten two people that she has lost to and is beating her up in the scans provided despite the fact that she got the drop on him? 😐

Originally posted by jrodslam

Yea, this is a fight, but it hasnt been stated what the conditions are here. Whats Punishers normal carrying weapons? Whats he have for this fight? Does Widow get any weapons? Ultimately it just may come down to h2h considering Pun may have a hard time tagging her or he runs out of ammo.

This is why I get annoyed sometimes people dont read. The conditions have already been stated and the rules state that if nothing is specified its standarad equipment.

Originally posted by jrodslam

To concede that youve been underestimating Widow is big of you. That doesnt happen much here on this forum, lol. In a whole, Punisher does have the better showings, but Tasha has some nice ones as well. I cant be mad at a Punisher win 6/10. I just give Widow the edge because if Pun cant tag her, eventually shed close the gap or hed run out of bullets.

Bah 5/5.

I could argue thats ABC logic like you're arguing. She may have better showings buts shes still losing her fight with Frank. Did you see the scans? I can however settle for a 5/5. 🙂 I think however because hes beaten two people she has lost to and is winning in the scans I think 6/10 is better.

Originally posted by RUNMAN
Black Widow

Originally posted by Soljer
Indeed.

Originally posted by guy222
black widow

Originally posted by Ha-Son
Black Widow

Originally posted by SmurphSmash!

[QUOTE=9487506]Originally posted by RUNMAN
[B]Black Widow

Originally posted by Battlehammer
black widow for sure

Originally posted by jrodslam
Black Widow for the win.

Originally posted by horrorwolf
Widow 8/10

Originally posted by tkitna
Regardless, i'll give Widow 8/10.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Widow.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Punisher gets decapitated Sailor Moon-style.

Originally posted by Soljer

Post of the year. 👆

Glad to hear you're so ready to agree.

Now we can let this dumb-ass thread die peacefully. 🙂.

Originally posted by Soljer
Glad to hear you're so ready to agree.

Now we can let this dumb-ass thread die peacefully. 🙂.

cry

phantom, please don't shoot yourself in the crotch like that again. 😠

Originally posted by tkitna
Daredevil should never, ever have a hard time with Frank. Regardless, i'll give Widow 8/10.

I still haven't seen anything impressive from Black Widow in all my researching. I've seen Punisher fight bigger, badder and more skilled. But I'll refrain from Daredevil >=< Punisher > Black Widow logic. Yes, Daredevil has schooled Black Widow... and horribly... but I'll chalk that up to them being partners and Daredevil knowing her inside out from fighting alongside her so often, whereas he has no such benefit with regards to the Punisher.

5/10 split either way.

Bumping this 'cause they will be fighting soon.

Frank should take this.

Working scans:

Originally posted by Deadline
[B]Punisher vs.

Punisher vs. Black Widow
[/B]

They're going to fight soon? In that case BW. Avengers have been winning everything ever since the movie came out.