Darth Revan's Sith Empire vs The empire (Empire Strike Back)

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
It is Nek Bwua'tu from Unseen Queen.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nek_Bwua%27tu

Thanx

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
There are very few people in SW mythos who could match Revan in terms of intelligence and smartness. Thrawn is the only person who is believed to be the better tactican.

Based on what? Who can we compare Revan to? Mandalorians? Revan was stated as having way superior resources when facing the Mandalorians, saying he used tactics that "killed 1 Mandalorian for every 10 Republic soldiers." The Mandalorians weren't exactly master tacticians either. They literally stuff their soldiers in metal boxes rigged with guns and threw them at the surface of planets.

The point I'm trying to make is, what did Revan actually do? Win with superior resources against an enemy that was running through Outer Rim Colonies, which are virtually the weakest part of the Republic. Yes, he saw the "true" Sith threat before anyone (except maybe Malak who was with him, but possibly so), but that doesn't imply he was a greater tactician than many of the greats of the Empire.

Sure, the Republic was losing before Revan came, and he had a positive effect, but when he joined, not only was he a Jedi, which neither side the Republic before him nor the Mandalorians could equal, but he also brought a significant number of Jedi Knights into the fight alongside him. He didn't turn the tide alone.

The Empire can more than account for skilled Jedi, given the Emperor's Hands and Palpatine himself.

The shield is actually huge in size. It does not allows anything to even get near the Star Forge.

Death Star is the only real threat to the Star Forge. Though it itself is not indestructable. If the insignificant rebellion can take it down then Revan's ships can also do that. Revan would surely plan something in advance to deal with this kind of threat.

Death Star is the only threat? Are you telling me that ISD's lack both the range and firepower to effectively disrupt, if not outright destroy, the Star Forge?

I doubt it Legend, people seem to think the Star Forge is unstoppable, but if I can recall, a battered Republic managed to scrounge together a force that managed to actually land a ship in the Star Forge despite the "huge" size of the shield.

However, you do have a point of the Rebellion managing to take out the Death Star, but there are a few things that don't give any advantage to Revan.

1) Luke was the actual pilot who shot it, and he was guided by not only the Force, but Obi-Wan himself.

2) The Rebels had extensive information about the Death Star's schematics. Revan doesn't.

Revan would have support of massive numbers due to Star Forge and he did had some quality ships in his fleet. Though not significant by modern standards but their fire-power was still immense, as they could cause planetary wide destruction.

Good point. The Leviathan alone did manage to accomplish such a feat.

Originally posted by Se7in
Good point. The Leviathan alone did manage to accomplish such a feat.

No the Leviathon DID have a fleet with it. First off you can't blockade a planet with one ship and there are cutscenes in which malak asks Saul how long would it take to move the fleet into position to glass the planet.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
No the Leviathon DID have a fleet with it. First off you can't blockade a planet with one ship and there are cutscenes in which malak asks Saul how long would it take to move the fleet into position to glass the planet.

I also believed this, but I just watched the cutscene, and it only showed the Leviathan alone firing, albeit with other ships in the background (not firing) after the bombardment.

Originally posted by Se7in
I also believed this, but I just watched the cutscene, and it only showed the Leviathan alone firing, albeit with other ships in the background (not firing) after the bombardment.

The cutscene only shows the Leviathon because it is the capital ship and MALAK was on it. But there were more ships as Malak did order the fleet to get into position to bombard it.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
The cutscene only shows the Leviathon because it is the capital ship and MALAK was on it. But there were more ships as Malak did order the fleet to get into position to bombard it.

An assumption.

You can't state why Bioware did what they did.

What we know is the Leviathan is the only ship seen firing on Taris.

Nothing more.

Except for the fact that it is illogical to think that 1 ship can destroy a planet with blaster bolt. He DID say to position the fleet, so there WAS a fleet.

There was fleet and this video proves it was a coordinated bombardment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JXATIiS0Gw

watch and listen closely to the latter part of the conversation as Saul said it will take hours to move the fleet into position and malak tells him to start immediately.

Originally posted by Se7in
.I doubt it Legend, people seem to think the Star Forge is unstoppable, but if I can recall, a battered Republic managed to scrounge together a force that managed to actually land a ship in the Star Forge despite the "huge" size of the shield.

But in fairness though this is when Bastilla started to use the battle meditation to aid the republic fleet.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
But in fairness though this is when Bastilla started to use the battle meditation to aid the republic fleet. [/B]

Wrong.

I'm talking about in the battle where Revan attacked the Star Forge, when Bastila was using her Battle Meditation AGAINST the Republic.

Originally posted by Se7in
Wrong.

I'm talking about in the battle where Revan attacked the Star Forge, when Bastila was using her Battle Meditation AGAINST the Republic.

oops my b. 😮

The cloud of fanboyism is absolutely ridiculous. Darth Glentract, Nai, and the gentlemen over at SD.net have done the math and presented evidence of just how far the Galactic Empire is ahead of any other previously established military regime in galactic history. The Empire literally makes Revan's faction appear pathetic in comparison. To suggest that they are somehow on par, or that Revan's considerable military genius somehow lessens the gap is ridiculous and unsupported, and I -- for one -- demand proof.

Originally posted by SW_LeGenD
There are very few people in SW mythos who could match Revan in terms of intelligence and smartness. Thrawn is the only person who is believed to be the better tactican.

Unsupported. Prove that Grand Admiral Thrawn is the only person who exceeds Revan in terms of military genius; a quote or some such would be nice. In fact, I can name -- off the top of my head -- one other person who is, without a shadow of a doubt, Revan's superior: Grand Admiral Demetrius Zaarin. This gentleman staged a coup against the Empire, managing to fool Darth Vader and kidnap Emperor Palpatine himself. After the Emperor was rescued, Zaarin and a small faction of treacherous Imperial forces seceded and engaged in a military campaign against the Empire for months, locked in a stalemate.

Do you know how impressive that is? To be pitted against the forces of a dozen or so other Grand Admirals (who are all Admiral Ackbar's equal according to the New Essential Chronology) and the amassed forces of the Empire itself? That alone puts him quite a bit above Revan.

This is also excluding the other Grand Admirals, Admiral Ackbar, Garm Bel Iblis, General Grievous, Sev'rance Taan, and others. Darth Revan is an impressive tactition and one of the best, but really, he's nowhere as good as you make him out to be.

The shield is actually huge in size. It does not allows anything to even get near the Star Forge.

The Death Star doesn't exactly have to be on top of the Star Forge to attack it; I could point out that it could either detonate the Star Forge in one fell swoop or the Death Star could destroy Lehon and the Imperial Starfleet render the Star Forge into sub-atomic particles.

Death Star is the only real threat to the Star Forge. Though it itself is not indestructable. If the insignificant rebellion can take it down then Revan's ships can also do that. Revan would surely plan something in advance to deal with this kind of threat.

Faulty logic. The Rebels gained access to the Death Star's schematics after months of espionage due in part to the Bothan Spynet, which was superior to the Empire's own. Saying that Revan "would surely plan something in advance to deal with this kind of threat" is ridiculous and unsupported.

Originally posted by Darth Hord
oops my b. 😮

No problem, you beat me out with the Leviathan bombarment point. 😄

Originally posted by Se7in
No problem, you beat me out with the Leviathan bombarment point. 😄

sweet 😄

Originally posted by Gideon
The cloud of fanboyism is absolutely ridiculous. Darth Glentract, Nai, and the gentlemen over at SD.net have done the math and presented evidence of just how far the Galactic Empire is ahead of any other previously established military regime in galactic history.

...The entire site is dedicated to study and debates centered around the Galactic Empire. There's literally hundreds of relevant links.

Nobody is saying Revan's empire would win here Escape. At least i don't think.

I love how the thread creator purposely kept saying "more about strategy" in order to push the battle in Revans favour, you could at least TRY to make it less obvious that you are trying to make a spite thread next time, but even with it all the Galatic Empire still easily wins this.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nobody is saying Revan's empire would win here Escape. At least i don't think.

People are trying to open the door for it. Well, I'll be happy to slam it shut. The Empire curbstomps Revan. It's not close. It's not difficult. It's an easy megapwnage.

Originally posted by Gideon
People are trying to open the door for it. Well, I'll be happy to slam it shut. The Empire curbstomps Revan. It's not close. It's not difficult. It's an easy megapwnage.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
I love how the thread creator purposely kept saying "more about strategy" in order to push the battle in Revans favour, you could at least TRY to make it less obvious that you are trying to make a spite thread next time, but even with it all the Galatic Empire still easily wins this.

I can't wait to hear his rebuttal.

Honestly, this is equivalent to sending a toddler armed with a stick of celery against Miyamoto Musashi.