OK than, I am SICK AND TIRED of both sides in this "debate" and have had it up to HERE (points to ceiling) with the BS spewed by both sides.
OK than, to sum this up: To whoever thought the Leviathan glassed Taris on its lonesome, you are incorrect. When you are in the Ebon Hawk being shot at by Sith Fighters, you can see an armada taking potshots at the planet. Nuff said.
To Darth Sexy: Do you not think that a Galaxy-spanning Authoritarian regime with access to (if not domination of) most planets in the Star Wars Universe, would NOT have data on what is by all accounts a galaxy-changing epic series of conflicts? Than you do not know much about military history and the gathering of such. I can imagine SOME data being lost, true, but far from all. The fact remains that we have mostly reliable data for the events that took place in the Battle of Kadesh from 1274 BC (!!!) with far more of a technology gap than in-universe, and yet we are supposed to believe that the Empire could not find out about an epic war around 4,000 years ago where primary sources were very close in comparison to the tech they were using?
And to The Anomaly, are you dense? Do you have any clue about the military whatsoever? OF COURSE MOST WARS AND BATTLES REVOLVE AROUND STRATEGY ON ONE LEVEL OR ANOTHER! If you cannot grasp that simple tenant of warfare, do us a favor and get back to the one-on-one dueling sections.
Stategic genius has been a factor in warfare. This has turned the tide of war in ways that most would never believe possible. This is evident in more places than I can possibly ever list here, but one way to visualize this are the ultimatums the Russian negotiator to a seemingly-beaten Napoleon, and how harsh they were (Italy must be surrendered immediately, and if war persists, Piedmont and the Low Countries will be included) about one flippin' day before the French blasted the Austrian-Russian army to pieces at Austerlitz.
Luck also plays a role in war. Half the reason the Western Allies managed to survive in WWII was a nonsensical order from Hitler to halt the Panzers just in front of Dunkirk, where they had the chance to wipe out most of the British Empire's forces in one fell swoop.
Do I personally believe that Revan will win this? No, I do not. It is slimly possible, but only very slimly. The Empire will have far superior tech, numbers, and strategic position. So, the only way I can see Revan winning is if he can somehow capture and replicate some Imperial tech, and that would be assuming he could survive long enough to do so in the first place.
The best I can see him realistically doing is to inflict a crushingly pyrrhic victory on them, but even that is questionable to say the least.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan's Empire had an another super weapon, which was called "Mass Shadow Generator."That weapon should also be taken in to consideration.
Okay, let's take it into consideration.
The Empire doesn't know it's there. However, unless the fleet moves close enough to actually get caught in the gravity well of the MSG, then there's no need to take it into consideration. The Death Star, and many of the ships in the Imperial Fleet could easily destroy Malachor V from more than sufficient range.
Unless the Mass Shadow Generator manages to capture the ENTIRE Imperial Fleet in one fell swoop, it doesn't make much of a difference.
Originally posted by Se7in
Okay, let's take it into consideration.The Empire doesn't know it's there. However, unless the fleet moves close enough to actually get caught in the gravity well of the MSG, then there's no need to take it into consideration. The Death Star, and many of the ships in the Imperial Fleet could easily destroy Malachor V from more than sufficient range.
Unless the Mass Shadow Generator manages to capture the ENTIRE Imperial Fleet in one fell swoop, it doesn't make much of a difference.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The point is to lure the enemy forces over that planet and send large number of small aircraft to engage them to grab their attention. That's what Revan would do.
You're not Revan, you can't speak on his behalf. I could just as easily say that Palpatine, upon discovering Revan's existence, will infiltrate his organization and use him as a puppet as long as he finds him amusing.
Originally posted by Gideon
You're not Revan, you can't speak on his behalf.
He positioned his least loyal forces over that planet and then lured Mandalorian forces to that region.
Then when the battle was taking place, Revan gave the green light to the Jedi Exile for the weapon to be used during combat.
Originally posted by Gideon
I could just as easily say that Palpatine, upon discovering Revan's existence, will infiltrate his organization and use him as a puppet as long as he finds him amusing.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]What do you think that Revan did when the MSG weapon was planted on Malachor V on his orders?He positioned his least loyal forces over that planet and then lured Mandalorian forces to that region.
Then when the battle was taking place, Revan gave the green light to the Jedi Exile for the weapon to be used during combat.
The Mandalorians didn't have ships powerful enough to bombard Malachor. The Empire does. They wouldn't need to set foot on Malachor, more or less send their entire fleet within range.
What do you think that Revan did when the MSG weapon was planted on Malachor V on his orders?He positioned his least loyal forces over that planet and then lured Mandalorian forces to that region.
Then when the battle was taking place, Revan gave the green light to the Jedi Exile for the weapon to be used during combat.
I'm beginning to, again, lose my patience with you. You cannot speak on a character's behalf on the issue of tactics or strategies. You do not have access to their mentality or canon facts to support it. Period.
And Revan being used as a puppet by his arch-enemy sounds very amusing.
I'm sure it would to you, Captain Fanboy.
He is smart enough to not let that happen. And he himself was a DLOTS (Master).
Crappy logic for four hundred, Alex. You've made two irrelevant points: that Revan is intelligent and a Dark Lord of the Sith have no bearing on whether or not he can be manipulated. Count Dooku was an intelligent Dark Lord of the Sith, as was Vader, and both of them were used as pawns by Emperor Palpatine.
You don't agree with my logic because I use it the same way you do. You say "Revan can tactically counter the Empire's moves11!" and I can say "Palpatine will infiltrate Revan's Empire and make him his *****!11!" and -- based on credence and feat -- it's just as plausible.
Try again, LeGenD. Raise your game or don't bother continuing to play it.
Originally posted by Gideon
I'm beginning to, again, lose my patience with you. You cannot speak on a character's behalf on the issue of tactics or strategies. You do not have access to their mentality or canon facts to support it. Period.
Re-check these lines:
What do you think that Revan did when the MSG weapon was planted on Malachor V on his orders?He positioned his least loyal forces over that planet and then lured Mandalorian forces to that region.
Then when the battle was taking place, Revan gave the green light to the Jedi Exile for the weapon to be used during combat.
Originally posted by Gideon
I'm sure it would to you, Captain Fanboy.
Originally posted by Gideon
Crappy logic for four hundred, Alex. You've made two irrelevant points: that Revan is intelligent and a Dark Lord of the Sith have no bearing on whether or not he can be manipulated. Count Dooku was an intelligent Dark Lord of the Sith, as was Vader, and both of them were used as pawns by Emperor Palpatine.
Revan was the master of his own destiny and he understood things in a way that Dooku and Vader did not. He was himself a master schemer and his feats prove that.
By the way! Dooku and Vader were Sith apprentices and not Sith Masters. And a Sith Master never assumes a role of apprentice.
Originally posted by Gideon
You don't agree with my logic because I use it the same way you do. You say "Revan can tactically counter the Empire's moves11!" and I can say "Palpatine will infiltrate Revan's Empire and make him his *****!11!" and -- based on credence and feat -- it's just as plausible.Try again, LeGenD. Raise your game or don't bother continuing to play it.
Originally posted by Se7in
The Mandalorians didn't have ships powerful enough to bombard Malachor. The Empire does. They wouldn't need to set foot on Malachor, more or less send their entire fleet within range.
They used Nuclear weapons to oblierate life on planets and they could do the same to Malachor.
But they never knew that a super weapon was planted on Malachor V. It was a perfect trap laid for them by Revan.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is the first sign of total ignorance from you. Your PT fanboyism is taking its toll actually.
Prove to me that Dooku and Vader were as smart as Revan was.
By the way! Dooku and Vader were Sith apprentices and not Sith Masters. And a Sith Master never assumes a role of apprentice.
Carry on with your fantasy imaginations. No one will take you seriously in this case. [/B]
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
As far as I'm concerned, Escape is the most objective debater on this forum, and he's speaking the truth, so him calling you a fanboy doesn't make him a pt fanboy.
What I mentioned over here is actually canon information and not my own invention and thus it supports my early assertion.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I didn't know Escape even made that assertion, as it would be untrue.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What the hell? Apparently you missed the entire purpose of Bane's lineage, where there is a master and an apprentice, but both are Dark Lords of the Sith, so your point is totally irrelevant and incorrect.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I beg to differ Legend, and it is YOU nobody is taking seriously because of your OBVIOUS KOTOR fanboyism.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDActually the majority of us here do not want to take you seriously, I myself is starting to not take you seriously at all.
Since when have you started to speak for Gideon? Just because some people would not take me seriously, it does not means that no one would.
Or do you need me to list the names of those who just cant be bothered to take you seriously anymore?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
They were not as primitive as you consider them to be.They used Nuclear weapons to oblierate life on planets and they could do the same to Malachor.
But they never knew that a super weapon was planted on Malachor V. It was a perfect trap laid for them by Revan.
You overestimate the Mandalorians. They weren't expert strategists. They were powerful, expertly trained, but not tacticians. They used brute force and overwhelming strength to overcome their enemies.
They were easily manipulated and predicted by the likes of Kreia and Revan. They didn't have the foresigh to match the likes of the two Force-Users.
The Empire does. Not to mention they have master strategists above the likes of Revan.
Originally posted by Se7in
You overestimate the Mandalorians. They weren't expert strategists. They were powerful, expertly trained, but not tacticians. They used brute force and overwhelming strength to overcome their enemies.They were easily manipulated and predicted by the likes of Kreia and Revan. They didn't have the foresigh to match the likes of the two Force-Users.
I don't think so!
Originally posted by Se7in
The Empire does. Not to mention they have master strategists above the likes of Revan.
Sorry for the delay, people; I've been knee-deep in Halo 3.
This is the first sign of total ignorance from you. Your PT fanboyism is taking its toll actually.
Oh, geez, lol. You recycle excellent verbal spars and make them terribly crappy; stick to the debates, not the witty retorts. You've accused me of PT fanboyism since the dawn of time -- the fact yet remains that all I've done is simply point out that the PT (and the OT, for that matter) is the superior era by merit of technology and stronger Force-users. On the flip side, we have you, who has proclaimed on numerous occasions "how uber!!1!" the KotoR-era is, despite the fact that it is very much fact that the PT > KotoR. Hell, LeGenD, everyone -- Advent, Se7in, Darth Sexy, Lightsnake, Manslayer -- has commented on it. Any thread with the word "Revan", "Malak", "KotoR", "Bandon", "Bastilla", "Nihilus" or "Kreia", you have to remind everyone how 'pwnage!!1' they are, even if they'd get owned.
DE Sidious and LotF Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Revan, as interpreted by LeGenD:
"Well, Revan is a very powerful Sith Lord (-proceeds to list six or seven in-game feats-) and is very intelligent (second only Thrawn in tactics!1!) and possesses a nearly unrivaled command of the Force. But he'd lose."
Or you'd ignore it entirely, never mentioning how effortlessly he'd be annihilated.
So, in conclusion, who's the fanboy around here? That'd be you mate.
A comment like that can be expected from a PT fanboy like you. Though you have got nothing to back that claim.
Whoop-dee-friggin-doo, LeGenD. It wasn't worth the response! You were arguing that Darth Revan performed 'X' feat under 'Y' circumstances, and, ergo, he can always do it again. My rebuttal? Palpatine manipulated vastly intelligent and vastly experienced individuals into doing his bidding, unwittingly and otherwise, for decades: ergo, he could do it again. Meaning, once again, Palpatine trumps Revan.
I use your own logic and beat you with it. Try doing the same with me.
Prove to me that Dooku and Vader were as smart as Revan was.
That was never the claim. Having a bias attack? I wonder if they prescribe medicine for it. The claim was that Palpatine manipulated very intelligent Sith Lords to do his bidding -- ergo, by your logic -- he'd do the same here.
Why is that the same as your logic? Because you made the claim that Revan could pull a stunt that he did during a KotoR-era struggle against a vastly stronger military force (the Empire) commanded by dozens of brilliant tactitions -- two of which are his superiors (Thrawn and Zaarin).
Revan was the master of his own destiny and he understood things in a way that Dooku and Vader did not. He was himself a master schemer and his feats prove that.
Sorry, but by your logic, the second he grappled with the Empire -- he wouldn't be the master of anything when Palpatine got ahold of him. Dooku and Vader were also the 'masters of their own destiny', but they were just unwittingly manipulated into surrendering it to one man.
By the way! Dooku and Vader were Sith apprentices and not Sith Masters. And a Sith Master never assumes a role of apprentice.
To quote Darth Sexy: 'what the hell?'
That was never the claim. That doesn't even make sense. Vader, Maul, and Dooku were 'Dark Lords of the Sith' as per Bane's teachings. I never claimed that they were masters, nor is that relevant at all, as mastery is not indicative of intelligence.
Carry on with your fantasy imaginations. No one will take you seriously in this case.
Sorry, mate. But you need to grasp two things:
1.) I used your own logic and curbstomped you with it. Your logic sucks. You need to convert to the kind I use -- the real kind -- and take a stab. Darth Revan is effortlessly annihilated by greater forces, better strategists, and better tactitions. He loses. Sorry. 🙂
2.) 'No one will take me seriously'? So far, the vast -- vast -- majority have sided with me, not you. Your relationship with ignorance makes me wonder if it somehow birth to you or something.