Darth Revan's Sith Empire vs The empire (Empire Strike Back)

Started by Manslayer5 pages

Well said indeed sir gideon. It pleases me every time somebody hands mr kotor fanboys ass.

Now this is legends fanboyism

"Zomg! palapoot!n3 !$ sm@rT bUt $0 !s Rev@n!!!!!! buT h3 WuD $T!Ll L0$3!!!!!"

or

"Because this guy A performed feat X while guy B did not, Guy A > Guy B!!!!!"

Or

"Kotor Guy A can do X in situation Y, he can do it again as and when he likes!"

Or when he cant get any reliable sources, he turns to pure gameplay.

"Nihilus Absorbed their force attacks!!!!!"

And if i recall correctly, he has made imaginary feats for revan.

"He killed the entire rakata army population with one stroke of lightning while diverting the lightning from malak!!!!"

Which sidious did to the traitor storm troopers in empire: betrayel.

Oh wait theres some more of legends crap

"Revan and his biatch malak can block lukes emerald lightning and take him down!!!!!!!!"

Wait theres even more kotor fanidiosism i sense in him.

Bastilas battle meditation > sidious BM

And

Its an OLD sith trick so there fore revan knows everything sidious knows

This isnt fanboyism folks.... This is super fanboyism

He even tried ranting revan beats anakin rots in a saber duel and darth bandon beating maul but the end result is advent and gideon tearing his ass to bits

Originally posted by Gideon
Oh, geez, lol. You recycle excellent verbal spars and make them terribly crappy; stick to the debates, not the witty retorts. You've accused me of PT fanboyism since the dawn of time -- the fact yet remains that all I've done is simply point out that the PT (and the OT, for that matter) is the superior era by merit of technology and stronger Force-users. On the flip side, we have you, who has proclaimed on numerous occasions "how uber!!1!" the KotoR-era is, despite the fact that it is very much fact that the PT > KotoR. Hell, LeGenD, everyone -- Advent, Se7in, Darth Sexy, Lightsnake, Manslayer -- has commented on it. Any thread with the word "Revan", "Malak", "KotoR", "Bandon", "Bastilla", "Nihilus" or "Kreia", you have to remind everyone how 'pwnage!!1' they are, even if they'd get owned.

You seriously need to follow this advice now: STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

I never proclaimed that Revan, Malak, Bandon, Bastilla, Nihilus and Kriea were invincible. There are some people who have surpassed them in terms of power.

And I do acknowledge that the PT era is more technologically advanced then the KOTOR era.

You don’t need to tell me that what is better.

Originally posted by Gideon
DE Sidious and LotF Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Revan, as interpreted by LeGenD:

"Well, Revan is a very powerful Sith Lord (-proceeds to list six or seven in-game feats-) and is very intelligent (second only Thrawn in tactics!1!) and possesses a nearly unrivaled command of the Force. But he'd lose."

Or you'd ignore it entirely, never mentioning how effortlessly he'd be annihilated.

So, in conclusion, who's the fanboy around here? That'd be you mate.


I never had any trouble in accepting that these two people can defeat Revan and I know the reasons.

You can check my replies to Darth Hord in a recent Luke vs Revan thread for further clarification.

But when you use terms like “WTFpwnage”, this is where I disagree with you and it is my own personal point of view. And I have mentioned some reasons already. Though! No one is forcing you to accept my point of view.

You seriously need to take these things easy or in other word: GET SOME LIFE AND STOP PREACHING PEOPLE ABOUT STAR WARS.

Originally posted by Gideon
Whoop-dee-friggin-doo, LeGenD. It wasn't worth the response! You were arguing that Darth Revan performed 'X' feat under 'Y' circumstances, and, ergo, he can always do it again. My rebuttal? Palpatine manipulated vastly intelligent and vastly experienced individuals into doing his bidding, unwittingly and otherwise, for decades: ergo, he could do it again. Meaning, once again, Palpatine trumps Revan.

I have mentioned a strategy that was planned and implemented by Revan to eliminate the mighty Mandalorian forces. Now his strategy was successful. So can you explain to me that why would Revan not use a tried and tested successful strategy again?

And your counter-argument is a flawed one. Sidious managed to manipulate Dooku and Vader by capitalizing on their flawed beliefs. Vader specially wanted to save his wife from death and Sidious managed to fool him that he could save his wife and Vader decided to serve him after Mace died. Now you call Anakin a “very smart” person after this? I am simply amazed at your level of intellect.

Now can you explain to me that what flawed beliefs Revan followed that Sidious would manage to exploit?

Also do keep in mind that Revan have no loved ones to worry about in this case.

Originally posted by Gideon
I use your own logic and beat you with it. Try doing the same with me.

Your logic seems to be a flawed one.

Originally posted by Gideon
That was never the claim. Having a bias attack? I wonder if they prescribe medicine for it. The claim was that Palpatine manipulated very intelligent Sith Lords to do his bidding -- ergo, by your logic -- he'd do the same here.

Yeah! Those Sith Lords were so intelligent that I would wonder that Yoda, Luke and Obi-Wan should have learned a few things from them.

You need to double-check your statements.

Originally posted by Gideon
Why is that the same as your logic? Because you made the claim that Revan could pull a stunt that he did during a KotoR-era struggle against a vastly stronger military force (the Empire) commanded by dozens of brilliant tactitions -- two of which are his superiors (Thrawn and Zaarin).

An insignificant rebellion managed to defeat the mighty Empire during the battle of Endor.

What were Thrawn and Zaarin doing at that time when such a crucial battle was taking place in which even the Emperor was in danger?

Revan alone managed to plan the demise of superior Mandalorian forces and his plans worked.

Originally posted by Gideon
Sorry, but by your logic, the second he grappled with the Empire -- he wouldn't be the master of anything when Palpatine got ahold of him. Dooku and Vader were also the 'masters of their own destiny', but they were just unwittingly manipulated into surrendering it to one man.

Palaptine also got ahold of Luke and we surely know what happened. And Revan is even more wise and smart then him.

The case of Dooku and Vader has already been explained above. They don’t sound like “masters of their own destinies” to me. They were not as wise as Yoda, Mace and Obi-Wan were.

Originally posted by Gideon
To quote Darth Sexy: 'what the hell?'

That was never the claim. That doesn't even make sense. Vader, Maul, and Dooku were 'Dark Lords of the Sith' as per Bane's teachings. I never claimed that they were masters, nor is that relevant at all, as mastery is not indicative of intelligence.


My point is that a DLOTS who is the “master and leader” of the Sith will consider an another Sith Lord of same rank as a potential rival to deal with.

Revan had the same rank in his Empire that Sidious had in his Empire. They will treat each other like rivals and enemies.

You seriously need to follow this advice now: STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

It seems that you and I will be flying around in circles until the end of time. You say shit like this in every thread pertaining to a KotOR-era character; I'm not the only one who's noticed it -- everyone on these forums have. The only one here with a bias problem is you. Period.

I never proclaimed that Revan, Malak, Bandon, Bastilla, Nihilus and Kriea were invincible. There are some people who have surpassed them in terms of power.

Correct. And there are those among that 'some' (yes, I noticed the semantic) who would shit on either of the previous five.

And I do acknowledge that the PT era is more technologically advanced then the KOTOR era.

No one said you didn't. I said that you refuse to accept the fact that the PT simply yielded more powerful individuals, not just superior technology; we've just proven you can't even type the damn sentence out. You completely ignored it.

You don’t need to tell me that what is better.

Apparently I do. And I will. Every single time. In fact, I might even make a post regarding PT dominance to post on every KotOR-based thread, even if it has nothing to do with comparisons of power until you stop the constant fellating.

I never had any trouble in accepting that these two people can defeat Revan and I know the reasons.

Wrong; they'd crush him.

You can check my replies to Darth Hord in a recent Luke vs Revan thread for further clarification.

Lol. I did. I was there. You made with the fellating. Again.

But when you use terms like “WTFpwnage”, this is where I disagree with you and it is my own personal point of view. And I have mentioned some reasons already. Though! No one is forcing you to accept my point of view.

This is precisely the point. Your point of view is constructed by bias. You refuse to accept facts for what they are, and they manifest themselves in your (so-called) arguments. I couldn't care less if you personally clung to the delusion that Darth Revan is the uber-God of the universe, but when you constantly indulge yourselves on these threads with such thoughts, it gets old.

You seriously need to take these things easy or in other word: GET SOME LIFE AND STOP PREACHING PEOPLE ABOUT STAR WARS.

'Get some life'?

Let's tie our shoelaces before we trip on them, shall we? Just because I'm younger than you (and still maintain a healthy and active social life) and still kick your ass when it comes to logic, doesn't mean I'm in need of a life. If anything, you need it more than anyone. Older and more educated, but still inferior?

Must suck.

I have mentioned a strategy that was planned and implemented by Revan to eliminate the mighty Mandalorian forces. Now his strategy was successful. So can you explain to me that why would Revan not use a tried and tested successful strategy again?

Pull your head out of your ass and wipe the shit from your eyes. No one ever said he wouldn't use the strategy. I said that -- under different circumstances against a different foe -- that there is no guarentee it would yield any success.

And your counter-argument is a flawed one. Sidious managed to manipulate Dooku and Vader by capitalizing on their flawed beliefs. Vader specially wanted to save his wife from death and Sidious managed to fool him that he could save his wife and Vader decided to serve him after Mace died. Now you call Anakin a “very smart” person after this? I am simply amazed at your level of intellect.

Are you high? Are you seriously implying that Revan has no flawed beliefs? And you say you're not a fanboy? Rofl. The fact that he joined the dark side at all makes it plain that he has some weakness to him; it's the way of the fearful, the angered, the greedy, or the delusional.

Now can you explain to me that what flawed beliefs Revan followed that Sidious would manage to exploit?
Are you high? Are you seriously implying that Revan has no flawed beliefs? And you say you're not a fanboy? Rofl.
Also do keep in mind that Revan have no loved ones to worry about in this case.

Which means what? Romantic love is suddenly the only weakness that Sidious can exploit? What a (dangerously un)stable claim to make (jackass).

Your logic seems to be a flawed one.

According to whom? You? Not exactly 'Source of the Year', man.

Yeah! Those Sith Lords were so intelligent that I would wonder that Yoda, Luke and Obi-Wan should have learned a few things from them.

...This sentence doesn't make any sense. But I'm not fluent in Jackass.

You need to double-check your statements.

I'm going to really, really enjoy the following:

An insignificant rebellion managed to defeat the mighty Empire during the battle of Endor.

Shitty Logic, Strike One!

The 'insignificant rebellion' was being commanded by Admiral Ackbar a nearly unparalleled tactical genius. The 'insignificant rebellion' had access to schematics and the location of the second Death Star. The 'insignificant rebellion' walked into a ****ing trap.

Did you miss Return of the Jedi completely? You'd have to -- seriously -- be a retarded child or asleep the whole time to completely miss the point.

The Empire's fleet present at Endor never attempted to actively engage the Rebels. Admiral Piett himself instructs his crew aboard the Super Star Destroyer Executor to "hold position" and that the fleet was "not going to engage". There orders were to "keep them from escaping". That's all.

What were Thrawn and Zaarin doing at that time when such a crucial battle was taking place in which even the Emperor was in danger?

Shitty Logic, Strike Two!

a.) Zaarin. Was. Dead. After a reasonable campaign, Thrawn and Darth Vader managed to destroy the former Grand Admiral Zaarin and crush his renegade fleet prior to Return of the Jedi.

b.) Immediately afterwards, Thrawn was secretly promoted to Grand Admiral and sent into the Unknown Regions, mapping it out, secretly preparing for the Yuuzhan Vong invasion as per Sidious's orders.

Revan alone managed to plan the demise of superior Mandalorian forces and his plans worked.

Oh, how cute. The thing is:

a.) The Empire? They're not the Mandalorians.

b.) The Empire? They're larger, better equipped, and more intelligent than the Mandalorians.

Palaptine also got ahold of Luke and we surely know what happened. And Revan is even more wise and smart then him.

That's cute. Except Revan already joined the Dark Side, so your point is moot. Nevermind that Luke later submitted himself to Emperor Palpatine and was manipulated the entire time. Once again, you've managed to prove absolutely nothing.

The case of Dooku and Vader has already been explained above. They don’t sound like “masters of their own destinies” to me. They were not as wise as Yoda, Mace and Obi-Wan were.

Not as wise? One could argue that Yoda, Mace, and Obi-Wan -- for wise people -- were completely blind. Afterall, they failed to sense the rise of the Sith. Yoda and Mace both lament on this at different points during the Clone Wars. Dooku exposed Sidious to Obi-Wan on Sidious's orders and they still didn't even come close 'til the very end.

The point? Even 'wise' and 'smart' people make mistakes. Why are Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Mace suddenly wiser than Dooku and Vader if I might ask? Because they didn't join the dark side? Damn. Looks like Revan falls back into that category.

My point is that a DLOTS who is the “master and leader” of the Sith will consider an another Sith Lord of same rank as a potential rival to deal with.

The point you're making is completely irrelevant.

Revan had the same rank in his Empire that Sidious had in his Empire. They will treat each other like rivals and enemies.

And, no matter what, Revan is curbstomped.

Shitty Logic, Strike Three. You're out, mate.

Originally posted by Gideon
It seems that you and I will be flying around in circles until the end of time. You say shit like this in every thread pertaining to a KotOR-era character; I'm not the only one who's noticed it -- everyone on these forums have. The only one here with a bias problem is you. Period.

Every one in this forum has some degree of bias in them and it includes you as well.

Your comments like "Anakin will WTFpwn Revan" in a saber duel prove my point.

Originally posted by Gideon
No one said you didn't. I said that you refuse to accept the fact that the PT simply yielded more powerful individuals, not just superior technology; we've just proven you can't even type the damn sentence out. You completely ignored it.

Do I argue against that now? No!

I do acknowledge that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord and he had surpassed all before him in terms of power.

I do acknowledge that Yoda is among the most powerful Jedi in SW mythos and would be above Revan.

You need me to testify these points in every case? That I will not do.

Originally posted by Gideon
Apparently I do. And I will. Every single time. In fact, I might even make a post regarding PT dominance to post on every KotOR-based thread, even if it has nothing to do with comparisons of power until you stop the constant fellating.

You don’t control my actions and you are not my boss. I am free to do what I want to do just as you are. So why not maintain your limits and preach to those who don’t know what they are saying?

Originally posted by Gideon
Wrong; they'd crush him.

According to your point of view!

Originally posted by Gideon
Lol. I did. I was there. You made with the fellating. Again.

Apparently you did not.

Check this reply of Darth Hord:

It probably wont be easy but by comfortably I mean that he will be a somewhat tired later on and not badly injured.

And I said “FAIR ENOUGH”

Now you see? I am not that biased.

Originally posted by Gideon
This is precisely the point. Your point of view is constructed by bias. You refuse to accept facts for what they are, and they manifest themselves in your (so-called) arguments. I couldn't care less if you personally clung to the delusion that Darth Revan is the uber-God of the universe, but when you constantly indulge yourselves on these threads with such thoughts, it gets old.

Once again! I never refuse to accept facts. I never said that Revan was some kind of Force God.

Originally posted by Gideon
'Get some life'?

Let's tie our shoelaces before we trip on them, shall we? Just because I'm younger than you (and still maintain a healthy and active social life) and still kick your ass when it comes to logic, doesn't mean I'm in need of a life. If anything, you need it more than anyone. Older and more educated, but still inferior?

Must suck.


So you have shown more intellect then me in debating on Star Wars and that makes you over-all better then me?

You certainly live in a fool’s paradise then.

Move one buddy! Star Wars is not something to be taken very seriously.

A wise man once said “Star Wars is not meant to preached but to be enjoyed.”

Originally posted by Gideon
Pull your head out of your ass and wipe the shit from your eyes. No one ever said he wouldn't use the strategy. I said that -- under different circumstances against a different foe -- that there is no guarentee it would yield any success.

That I can agree with but only in a case when The Empire finds out that it is a trap and they know that where the MSG is planted.

Originally posted by Gideon
Are you high? Are you seriously implying that Revan has no flawed beliefs? And you say you're not a fanboy? Rofl. The fact that he joined the dark side at all makes it plain that he has some weakness to him; it's the way of the fearful, the angered, the greedy, or the delusional.

He joined the darkside in a different manner. The Malachor World corrupted him and it corrupts anybody that walks over its surface. He was not corrupted by any Sith Lord.

Vader on the other hand did not had to walk over Malachor V to become corrupted. He joined the dark side to save his wife but in the end, killed her with his own anger.

See the difference here?

Originally posted by Gideon
Which means what? Romantic love is suddenly the only weakness that Sidious can exploit? What a (dangerously un)stable claim to make (jackass).

No! But that was the major reason through which he managed to exploit Vader.

Though you still have yet to tell me some character related weaknesses of Revan that Sidious can exploit.

Originally posted by Gideon
According to whom? You? Not exactly 'Source of the Year', man.

You have yet to explain to me that how Sidious will seduce Revan.

Originally posted by Gideon
...This sentence doesn't make any sense. But I'm not fluent in Jackass.

Nice try! Jerk!

Explain to me that what their intelligence have to do with their flawed beliefs?

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm going to really, really enjoy the following:

Yeah! Try again!

Originally posted by Gideon
Shitty Logic, Strike One!

The 'insignificant rebellion' was being commanded by Admiral Ackbar a nearly unparalleled tactical genius.


And Revan was not an unparalleled tactician, right?

Originally posted by Gideon
The 'insignificant rebellion' had access to schematics and the location of the second Death Star. The 'insignificant rebellion' walked into a ****ing trap.

They attempted to discover that in the first place, right? So what is stopping Revan’s agents from doing so as well?

Originally posted by Gideon
Did you miss Return of the Jedi completely? You'd have to -- seriously -- be a retarded child or asleep the whole time to completely miss the point.

No I have not.

Originally posted by Gideon
The Empire's fleet present at Endor never attempted to actively engage the Rebels. Admiral Piett himself instructs his crew aboard the Super Star Destroyer Executor to "hold position" and that the fleet was "not going to engage". There orders were to "keep them from escaping". That's all.

And yet they were still firing at each other and even the mighty Death Star was being used to fire at the capital ships of the insignificant rebellion.

And Sidious was clearly warning Luke that the rebellion will be crushed soon enough, right?

Try again! Jackass!

Originally posted by Gideon
Shitty Logic, Strike Two!

a.) Zaarin. Was. Dead. After a reasonable campaign, Thrawn and Darth Vader managed to destroy the former Grand Admiral Zaarin and crush his renegade fleet prior to Return of the Jedi.


Fair enough!

Originally posted by Gideon
b.) Immediately afterwards, Thrawn was secretly promoted to Grand Admiral and sent into the Unknown Regions, mapping it out, secretly preparing for the Yuuzhan Vong invasion as per Sidious's orders.

Fair enough again!

Well I suppose that if these two also fight against Revan’s forces then the tide of the war will surely turn in the Empire’s favor. Provided that they don’t fall in to MSG based traps.

Originally posted by Gideon
Oh, how cute. The thing is:

a.) The Empire? They're not the Mandalorians.

b.) The Empire? They're larger, better equipped, and more intelligent than the Mandalorians.


The Empire is still not invincible.

Originally posted by Gideon
That's cute. Except Revan already joined the Dark Side, so your point is moot. Nevermind that Luke later submitted himself to Emperor Palpatine and was manipulated the entire time. Once again, you've managed to prove absolutely nothing.

I have explained the reason for why Revan joined the dark side and even as a dark sider, he had great control over his actions and beliefs.

And Revan is more wise and smart then Luke, so he may not.

Originally posted by Gideon
Not as wise? One could argue that Yoda, Mace, and Obi-Wan -- for wise people -- were completely blind. Afterall, they failed to sense the rise of the Sith. Yoda and Mace both lament on this at different points during the Clone Wars. Dooku exposed Sidious to Obi-Wan on Sidious's orders and they still didn't even come close 'til the very end.

Sith Lords were thought to be extinct in the PT period. The Jedi never knew that someone have infiltrated the Republic who would be a Sith Lord. They did found out about him through Anakin but thanks to his flawed beliefs, the Jedi failed to subdue the Sith Lord. Now you can also blame the failure on Anakin.

Originally posted by Gideon
The point? Even 'wise' and 'smart' people make mistakes. Why are Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Mace suddenly wiser than Dooku and Vader if I might ask? Because they didn't join the dark side? Damn. Looks like Revan falls back into that category.

They surely do. Revan however was shown to be a near perfect character, if not perfect. Some argue that Revan joined the darkside for a greater cause. His case is still different from that of Dooku and Vader.

Originally posted by Gideon
The point you're making is completely irrelevant.

No it is not. Take a look at the case of Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow as a some what close example.

Originally posted by Gideon
And, no matter what, Revan is curbstomped.

The OT Sith Empire can surely defeat Revan’s Empire. However it all depends upon the actions of people on both sides and they both have got super-weapons to use in the war.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

The OT Sith Empire can surely defeat Revan’s Empire. However it all depends upon the actions of people on both sides and they both have got super-weapons to use in the war.

Doesnt change the fact that revans sith fleet will get annihilated with thrawn and his superior commanding the eclipse and executor.

Dont forget the eclipse star destroyer alone is more than enough to wipe out revans entire fleet of sith warships

Originally posted by Gideon
Shitty Logic, Strike Two!

a.) Zaarin. Was. Dead. After a reasonable campaign, Thrawn and Darth Vader managed to destroy the former Grand Admiral Zaarin and crush his renegade fleet prior to Return of the Jedi.

b.) Immediately afterwards, Thrawn was secretly promoted to Grand Admiral and sent into the Unknown Regions, mapping it out, secretly preparing for the Yuuzhan Vong invasion as per Sidious's orders.

Maybe I misunderstood Something Gideon but wasn't Thrawn already a Grand Admiral when Zaarins campagne started and hadn't he already been to the Unknown regions at that point???

And didn't Thrawn utterly crush Zaarin???

ok have any of u plad kotor 1 or 2 than if u have than u shod know that revan is a brelleon sratagest and he chould wp up another mas sadow ganer at or + if he ad oto trgating laer canons on all hes capatel ships than the sith flite wood win.... big time

and revan can put sith assasnens on bord ther star desrtoiers and mabe just tak over the ships by making the empereils sukuraty aganst tham

Maybe I misunderstood Something Gideon but wasn't Thrawn already a Grand Admiral when Zaarins campagne started and hadn't he already been to the Unknown regions at that point???

Thrawn couldn't officially be made a Grand Admiral because there were already twelve at one given time. He was secretly promoted, but officially replaced Zaarin.

And didn't Thrawn utterly crush Zaarin???

Uh. No. Not even close.

ok have any of u plad kotor 1 or 2 than if u have than u shod know that revan is a brelleon sratagest and he chould wp up another mas sadow ganer at or + if he ad oto trgating laer canons on all hes capatel ships than the sith flite wood win.... big time

The Empire > Revan's armada. They've got stronger ships and better technology. The Empire fields at least thirteen strategists who are on par with Revan, two of them (Zaarin and Thrawn) being his superiors.

They manhandle him. Effortlessly.

I wasn't aware that Thrawn was sent into the unknown regions to prepare for the Vong Invasion. I didn't even know Sidious knew about the Vong. HOwever, I have made the point early on in the year that it would have been better to keep the empire, because the Vong wouldn't stand a chance. This turned out to be a very heated debate. Face dictatorship and virtually no freedom and yet be safe vs. destroy the dictatorship and brace the galaxy for extinction.

The evolutionary process seems to have slowed somewhat in the GFFA.

Never the less, the Empire wins because it is more evolved (in the correct ways).

I am more awe-struck by KOTOR still.

This argument reminds me of people who think that Jack Dempsay would annihilate any of today’s, or even yesterdays, “poorly skilled champs”. In this case they initially want to appear “hardcore”.

Sorry. I just saw it now and I simply had to answer that. It's so...omg.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That I can agree with but only in a case when The Empire finds out that it is a trap and they know that where the MSG is planted.

Dude. The Imperial fleet doesn't even fit into a freaking star system. What the hell do you think the MSG would do against them ? Even if they run into a similar trap compared to that Revan had prepared on Malachor for the Mandalorians - that would only destroy a very small fraction of the Imperial fleet.

And the more likely scenario would be that the Empire would simply destroy the planet with the trap using the Death Star. I'd love to see Revan without his mask, standing on the window of his flagship and go "WTF ?!?"


Though you still have yet to tell me some character related weaknesses of Revan that Sidious can exploit.

*looks at the thread topic*
I wonder why there is any need to manipulate Revan or exploit his weaknesses. Sidious has a military force under his command that dwarfs Revan's forces. Hell. A single Star Destroyer even without any sort of special tactics would most likely curpstomb a nice part of Revan's forces - superior shielding, far superior firepower. If you think about the fact that some prior versions of Super Star Destroyers were said to be able to take it up with 1,000 frigates of their time I don't think that 4,000 year old technology has much of a chance against them.


And Revan was not an unparalleled tactician, right?

Considering the fact that Ackbar managed to destroy almost all Yuuzhan Vong forces in a single movement...nope. I guess Revan doesn't match that. And even if you'd put Revan on one level with Admiral Ackbar - Thrawn would still be his superior, so would Zarin and aside of that the Empire has a damn lot of other tacticians who aren't bad (including Vader and Sidious himself).


They attempted to discover that in the first place, right? So what is stopping Revan’s agents from doing so as well?

Huh ? You are aware of the fact that Sidious (through Xizor) did practically send the Rebellion the plans and location of the second Death Star ? Because he wanted to crush them in a single move - and even orchestrate that as a nice demonstration of the power of his new battle station. Notice how the amassed fire of the entire Rebel fleet was needed to destroy the Executor (and that took quite a long time) without the Executor and the other ISD's even participating in the battle. Really. I could argue that Revan's complete fleet could fire days onto the Executor without even damaging the ship.


And yet they were still firing at each other and even the mighty Death Star was being used to fire at the capital ships of the insignificant rebellion.

Nope. Only the Death Star was used to fire at the Rebels capital ships. Aside of that the Empire did only use starfighters. The Stardestroyers and the Executor didn't fire a single shot. Lando even asks himself what the capital ships are waiting for as they would be able to easily destroy the Rebel fleet. And that was - once again - only a tiny fraction of the Empire's military forces.


And Sidious was clearly warning Luke that the rebellion will be crushed soon enough, right?

Vader could have stopped the Rebels from infiltrating Endor. He didn't because his son happened to be with them. Otherwise the shield generator on the planet would never have been destroyed. And hadn't Vader suddenly developed feelings for his son, the Emperor would have survived. So urm...unless Revan now is another child of Darth Vader aka Anakin Skywalker I don't see something similar happening.


Well I suppose that if these two also fight against Revan’s forces then the tide of the war will surely turn in the Empire’s favor. Provided that they don’t fall in to MSG based traps.

ROFL @ "turn" into the Empire's favor.

I don't think you have even the slightest idea about the forces the Empire has. Just for a damn comparison. The capital ships of the Republic in Revan's time roughly have the size and weapons of the Blockade Runner that is attacked in the opening sequence of ANH. The ultimate ship of Revan's time is the Leviathan (and he has just one of those) - a ship that roughly has 50 % of the size of a normal ISD and about 5 % the firepower of an ISD (if even that). The Empire has more than 25,000 Star Destroyers.

Now the regular battle group of the Imperial Navy consists of 6 Star Destroyers and 400 (!) addional capital ships. Those 400 ships (with are midiocre in comparison to an ISD) are still superior to the ships Revan has. That gives the Empire roughly 1.7 million ships that a superior to the what...hundrets ? A few thousand ? Ships that Revan's forces consist of. Troops ? Each ISD carries 9.600 Stormtroopers. That is - just on those ships - a total number of 240 million soldiers. Just for comparison: The US Army, which is the most powerful military force on our planet, consists of less than 500.000 regular soldiers.


The Empire is still not invincible.

For Revan's forces ? It is damn invincible for them. The Mandalorians took a nice amount of the troops under Revan's command out and this while being outnumbered 10 on 1 in certain situations (Battle of Dxun for example). The Republic forces that Revan went up against outnumbered Revan's forces 2 to 1 (as he had 1/3 of their former troops under his control). The Empire outnumberes Revans forces in a magnitude that is at least 1 to 1000 (or even higher numbers). Revan would get curbstomped.


Sith Lords were thought to be extinct in the PT period. The Jedi never knew that someone have infiltrated the Republic who would be a Sith Lord. They did found out about him through Anakin but thanks to his flawed beliefs, the Jedi failed to subdue the Sith Lord. Now you can also blame the failure on Anakin.

Urm. They knew that the Sith were back since the time of TPM. They had more than a decade to find Sidious and still didn't manage it. Since AotC they knew that a Sith Lord infiltrated the Republic. Three years and they still didn't find him. I'd say that this was more due to Sidious skill with the force and his manipulations than anything else.


The OT Sith Empire can surely defeat Revan’s Empire. However it all depends upon the actions of people on both sides and they both have got super-weapons to use in the war.

LMAO. Revan is totally outnumbered by a military force commanded by superior tacticians. He has superweapons ? He has one MSG and that's it. I could even argue that thing wouldn't do much against a Star Destroyers as those ships have been shown to easily withstand several million G and even if it does destroy them - that would again just take out a ridiculous small fraction of the Imperial Navy and after that Revan would get owned badly.

Thank you, Nai. Though I would offer one addendum: given the numbers provided by the dozens of sourcebooks and other material, it has been suggested that Gilad Pellaeon's reference of "twenty-five-thousand Star Destroyers" is in fact, only referring to the Imperial-classes. This is excluding the shitload of other classes.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I wasn't aware that Thrawn was sent into the unknown regions to prepare for the Vong Invasion. I didn't even know Sidious knew about the Vong. HOwever, I have made the point early on in the year that it would have been better to keep the empire, because the Vong wouldn't stand a chance. This turned out to be a very heated debate. Face dictatorship and virtually no freedom and yet be safe vs. destroy the dictatorship and brace the galaxy for extinction.

Nice one nai, theres also sidious galaxy wide battle meditation other than brilliant tacticians and superior fire power.

I think its even safe to assume a venator class star destroyer is enough to defeat 2-3 sith warships.

Well the leviathan is only 600 metres long, imperial star destroyes are 2-3 times the size of that and carry tons of superior fire power,

I think the assertion that legend tried to make of revans fleet doing well or prehaps "defeat" the empire is unsupported.

Again thats very nice ownage nai

Originally posted by Borbarad
.The capital ships of the Republic in Revan's time roughly have the size and weapons of the Blockade Runner that is attacked in the opening sequence of ANH. The ultimate ship of Revan's time is the Leviathan (and he has just one of those.)

Nicely put but wasn't the other sith interdictor ships the same class as the Leviathan? Meaning it would have the same fire power of it. And does anyone know if there is any info about the Ravager before it crashed on Malachor. I would say that it would be their ssd but it didnt seem to have the massive size difference between it and ships like the leviathan as the executor had compared to an sd. But either way Revan's forces are screwed.

The ravager is roughly the same size as an imperial class star destroyer, and throughout the kotor era we have only seen the ravager, no other similar clases

Are you guys forgetting Revans best advantage. He has thousands of dark jedi in his army, plus the powerful star forge droids (if those droids can take down jedi they can each kill 100 of those stupid storm troopers lol). Whoever said the empire had a larger force? Revan had the Star Forge so that means he'll have more ships. Also Revan is a brilliant military leader.

Originally posted by Sith Dude
Are you guys forgetting Revans best advantage. He has thousands of dark jedi in his army, plus the powerful star forge droids (if those droids can take down jedi they can each kill 100 of those stupid storm troopers lol). Whoever said the empire had a larger force? Revan had the Star Forge so that means he'll have more ships. Also Revan is a brilliant military leader.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the imperial army is far larger than revans, the mere storm troopers are in the billions as opposed to the thousands revan has.

And the technology revan posess is shit compared to the empire considering the 4000 year old gap. The greatest shit of revans army would be the leviathen, and it is only 600 metres long, we have a venator star destroyer, arguebly the weakest SD class in the empire and that ship alone has superior fire power, shielding etc and much larger and massive than all of revans ships.

And we have thrawn and zaarin whom are better tacticians that revan and along with that sidious and vader whom arent bad at tactics.

We also have the death start to blow up your precious star forge, right. According to canon, the SF gets destroyed