I listen to rock/metal everyday, but the thing is that it's not modern rock, and that's why it's dying... The modern bands are pretty crap right now (the mainstream ones, that is) What happened to the Alice in Chains, the Ratts, the Dokkens, the Zeppelins, the Floyds, and the NINs?
The bands of the 70s, 80s, and 90s all had that one rock scene that kept it going... (Seattle, L.A., etc.) Now, we just don't have that... More and more crap emo bands are surfacing, and the hip hop invasion has become almost irreversible...
What rock needs right now is one band to bring the interest back... A new grunge revolution or L.A. rock scene of sorts...
Originally posted by Bat Dude
I listen to rock/metal everyday, but the thing is that it's not modern rock, and that's why it's dying... The modern bands are pretty crap right now (the mainstream ones, that is) What happened to the Alice in Chains, the Ratts, the Dokkens, the Zeppelins, the Floyds, and the NINs?
Mainstream has always been mostly shit. It's easy to look back and think that only good bands existed.
Ratt? Dokken? I want that shit dead and buried, you see? It's all opinion.
NIN got shit and irrelevant, that's what happened to NIN.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
The bands of the 70s, 80s, and 90s all had that one rock scene that kept it going... (Seattle, L.A., etc.) Now, we just don't have that... More and more crap emo bands are surfacing, and the hip hop invasion has become almost irreversible...
No emo bands are surfacing, they're not emo. That's a mislabelling.
Hip hop INVASION? Invasion of what? Hip hop has dominated mainstream music since the late 90s now.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
What rock needs right now is one band to bring the interest back... A new grunge revolution or L.A. rock scene of sorts...
This sounds like the talk of someone who depends on rock being the point of interest.
Real music fans don't need their bands, artists or genres of music to maintain mass interest.
-AC
Originally posted by Nellinator
I look, I go to shows, I look on myspace, I check forums, I check dedicated sites, etc. Sure there are plenty of bands outside of the mainstream, but that does mean they are good, and it definitely doesn't mean that new standards are being set. If anything the standards for a good rock band are going backwards outside and inside the mainstream. Something I feel the internet is partially to blame for. Rock is dying.
Maybe it is just your taste in music that is changing or doesnt jive with current music. Im not sure what standards you believe a rock band is supposed to have in order to be recognized as good rock music. Im even more flabbergasted at your opinion that the internet is some how to blame for rock bands lack of standards. Personally, i believe the only standards a band of any type needs to posess is hard work and drive to create. Bands today, i think are working as hard as ever to stand out and gain awareness. This both allows for incredible originality and redundancy. Some bands follow a set formula and use studio's to create manufactured music. Other bands put in the time at small smokey venue's all around the country.
The death of major label companies and the birth of garage band productions gave way for a mainstream avenue. This occured long before the advent of the internet. The internet has only been the focus of spreading band awarness for several years now. The Internet can be argued as an outlet that is preserving music. No band can gain recognition without putting in the footwork of playing venue's. This is the standard i believe which is being once again realized by current bands. Bands in the underground market seem to be spending less time in the studio's manufacturing sounds and more time playing live perfecting their harmony. The funny thing with mainstream is that once a band hits the mainstream they are mainstream. There seems to be a constant battle between fans of the mainstream and un sighned artists. One of my aquarrels with artists that reach mainstream popularity and recognition is that they tend to produce more studio influeced sounds and lose some of their roots in the process.
I'm not sure any band can ever sustain consistancy that will please all of their fans. There is plenty of artists out there, you just have to keep looking or maybe try to broaden your horizons and learn to appreciate new genre's of music. To say rock is dead though, is just wrong.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriNot really. I liked many of the innovations of rock from Cream to Black Sabbath, to Van Halen, then I hated the 80s rock, but it was still innovating and wasn't dead. Then I like grunge, and I didn't mind the mid-90s. What innovations have been made in rock since then? People keep telling me, "innovations have been made". Then I say "like what?". To which they respond, "innovations have been made". I'm seeing innovations being made in plenty of other forms of music, simply not rock.
Maybe you just believe too much in the old ideal of what rock is, Nell.Rock isn't just Zeppelin anymore, or those ideals.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Mainstream has always been mostly shit. It's easy to look back and think that only good bands existed.Ratt? Dokken? I want that shit dead and buried, you see? It's all opinion.
NIN got shit and irrelevant, that's what happened to NIN.
No emo bands are surfacing, they're not emo. That's a mislabelling.
Hip hop INVASION? Invasion of what? Hip hop has dominated mainstream music since the late 90s now.
This sounds like the talk of someone who depends on rock being the point of interest.
Real music fans don't need their bands, artists or genres of music to maintain mass interest.
-AC
Dokken is really not shit... Tooth and Nail is one of my favorite albums 🤘 and the title song is NOT hair metal (it borders on technical speed metal)
Ratt from 1984-1986 is really good, well written music, not too hair metal-y for people to like (even my friends, who all like Led Zeppelin and Lynyrd Skynyrd, have grown fond of Out of the Cellar and Dancing Undercover)... A lot of it from that era is pretty much hard rock, and even their REALLY hair metal stuff from 1990 (Lovin' You's a Dirty Job, etc.) is really catchy and filled with really good music playing (DeMartini is just such a good guitarist) But I'm a fan of the 80s hair/thrash, so it doesn't matter to me...
And NIN will always FOR ME (key words) be defined by Head Like a Hole, which imo is their best song...
Opinion based, indeed...
Ok, to be more correct, more crap "Fall Out Boy and etc." bands are surfacing... And the hip hop invasion refers to it wrestling control of the charts/masses from post-grunge in the 90s...
I don't need it, but I'd love to bring interest back... I don't want it to become something that you can hear JUST on the underground... I'd like to be able to turn on my radio and hear good rock music on something other than WMMS (favorite radio station, btw)... It's a fact that rock needs to strengthen, it doesn't HAVE to be like the 70s/80s/90s, but I'd prefer it kept itself in the race...
If I had ANY musical talent, I'D try to form a band out of the several musicians at my school (luckily they all play hard rock) and practice until we're presentable... Then if we're any good, maybe, MAYBE we'd be able to bring some local interest back if we're successful enough (not like massive radio play, but some moderate gigs and stuff) But of course I don't have any, so...
Originally posted by Bat Dude
Dokken is really not shit... Tooth and Nail is one of my favorite albums 🤘 and the title song is NOT hair metal (it borders on technical speed metal)Ratt from 1984-1986 is really good, well written music, not too hair metal-y for people to like (even my friends, who all like Led Zeppelin and Lynyrd Skynyrd, have grown fond of Out of the Cellar and Dancing Undercover)... A lot of it from that era is pretty much hard rock, and even their REALLY hair metal stuff from 1990 (Lovin' You's a Dirty Job, etc.) is really catchy and filled with really good music playing (DeMartini is just such a good guitarist) But I'm a fan of the 80s hair/thrash, so it doesn't matter to me...
And NIN will always FOR ME (key words) be defined by Head Like a Hole, which imo is their best song...
Opinion based, indeed...
Yes, opinion.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
Ok, to be more correct, more crap "Fall Out Boy and etc." bands are surfacing... And the hip hop invasion refers to it wrestling control of the charts/masses from post-grunge in the 90s...
So? Who gives a shit who controls the charts? Only people who get their music from the charts, care about what's on them.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
I don't need it, but I'd love to bring interest back... I don't want it to become something that you can hear JUST on the underground... I'd like to be able to turn on my radio and hear good rock music on something other than WMMS (favorite radio station, btw)... It's a fact that rock needs to strengthen, it doesn't HAVE to be like the 70s/80s/90s, but I'd prefer it kept itself in the race...
It's not a fact that rock needs to strengthen, you obviously want the charts to be filled with music you've not heard so you can get new music. I personally do not need to be told, I go out and look. Therefore, the charts being full of hip pop, rock or nazi funk metal wouldn't matter to me.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes, opinion.So? Who gives a shit who controls the charts? Only people who get their music from the charts, care about what's on them.
It's not a fact that rock needs to strengthen, you obviously want the charts to be filled with music you've not heard so you can get new music. I personally do not need to be told, I go out and look. Therefore, the charts being full of hip pop, rock or nazi funk metal wouldn't matter to me.
-AC
Yes indeed (it's the only thing we've agreed on so far)
I kinda just want my music on the radio more, cuz when it was in the 1980s, everything was so prosperous... I want to hear GOOD music on the radio, music I know is good (hard rock/metal), so I don't have to constantly buy new albums just to hear something decent...
And actually, I got my current music style from GTA: Vice City... I heard "Too Young to Fall in Love", "2 Minutes to Midnight", and "Raining Blood"... I researched the bands online, then looked at the bands under "Similar Bands" and got my current favorite music style, 70s/80s metal... (Including hair, thrash, classic, and post-thrash) If I listened to what was on the charts right now, I'd be listening to Kiss FM and not WMMS...
And again, it doesn't HAVE to be the #1 thing, but I'd like for it to stay SOMEWHAT popular...
Originally posted by Bat Dude
I kinda just want my music on the radio more, cuz when it was in the 1980s, everything was so prosperous... I want to hear GOOD music on the radio, music I know is good (hard rock/metal), so I don't have to constantly buy new albums just to hear something decent...
So you're just extremely lazy and a touch bitter, basically. Not really good reasons for your wish, but whatever.
It's a bit foolish to say you don't rely on the mainstream when you want..the mainstream to...play "your" music, music you feel is good...so..you...won't have to look for albums to buy.
Doesn't make a shred of sense.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
And actually, I got my current music style from GTA: Vice City... I heard "Too Young to Fall in Love", "2 Minutes to Midnight", and "Raining Blood"... I researched the bands online, then looked at the bands under "Similar Bands" and got my current favorite music style, 70s/80s metal... (Including hair, thrash, classic, and post-thrash) If I listened to what was on the charts right now, I'd be listening to Kiss FM and not WMMS...
So keep looking, problem solved.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
And again, it doesn't HAVE to be the #1 thing, but I'd like for it to stay SOMEWHAT popular...
Why? You like it, you can find it, you can listen to it. Why does it matter if everyone likes it or not?
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So you're just extremely lazy and a touch bitter, basically. Not really good reasons for your wish, but whatever.It's a bit foolish to say you don't rely on the mainstream when you want..the mainstream to...play "your" music, music you feel is good...so..you...won't have to look for albums to buy.
Doesn't make a shred of sense.
So keep looking, problem solved.
Why? You like it, you can find it, you can listen to it. Why does it matter if everyone likes it or not?
-AC
😠 Now I'm getting frustrated...
I don't rely on mainstream because what's mainstream RIGHT NOW is crap... My music is so much better... I wish to educate the masses in the ways of good music, and, as you said, I'm also pretty lazy, and don't wish to shell out cash to buy albums of artists I ALREADY LIKE (not what the charts tell me, what I've liked from the start, money doesn't grow on trees, you know, and the radio is just so much more convenient for me)
No I'm good... 😎
Like I said, what's on right now is crap, and I want to show people that there is something better... (Bettering the World, in a sense) I feel pity for those who listen to what's on the charts... I want MY music there so they start listening to it and maybe, MAYBE find that it's better than what they were listening to before...
Originally posted by Bat Dude
😠 Now I'm getting frustrated...I don't rely on mainstream because what's mainstream RIGHT NOW is crap... My music is so much better... I wish to educate the masses in the ways of good music, and, as you said, I'm also pretty lazy, and don't wish to shell out cash to buy albums of artists I ALREADY LIKE (not what the charts tell me, what I've liked from the start, money doesn't grow on trees, you know, and the radio is just so much more convenient for me)
You wish to educate the masses? Why? They've decided for themselves what is good to them. What's good to you may not be good to them. Also, if they don't have the strength or presense of mind to look elsewhere, it's their own fault. Making a sheep like something is not a triumph, they'll like anything they're told to like.
So you don't really want to educate the masses...it's all just a bs reason to get music you like on the radio, and this is because you do not want to actively seek out and pay for music that you do like?
Sorry, you're beyond help and your point makes zero sense. You're just lazy, stop being lazy and look for your own music.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
No I'm good... 😎
Then stop whining.
Either keep looking for your music and avoid the "crap" mainstream, or stop moaning about what's in the mainstream if that's where you want to be provided with music.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
Like I said, what's on right now is crap, and I want to show people that there is something better... (Bettering the World, in a sense) I feel pity for those who listen to what's on the charts... I want MY music there so they start listening to it and maybe, MAYBE find that it's better than what they were listening to before...
Mainstream, to me is; Foo Fighters, RHCP, U2, stuff like that. I'd much rather have that on the radio than Ratt and Dokken, but that's opinion for you.
"Better" is opinion. You could clog the radiowaves with Dokken, Ratt and whatever else and people may think it's overwhelmingly shit, in their opinion.
So why not just like what you like and let people like what they like? Nobody is forcing you to listen to the radio, you're just a lazy person who wants it all with little effort. Unrealistic, ridiculous idea.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You wish to educate the masses? Why? They've decided for themselves what is good to them. What's good to you may not be good to them. Also, if they don't have the strength or presense of mind to look elsewhere, it's their own fault. Making a sheep like something is not a triumph, they'll like anything they're told to like.So you don't really want to educate the masses...it's all just a bs reason to get music you like on the radio, and this is because you do not want to actively seek out and pay for music that you do like?
Sorry, you're beyond help and your point makes zero sense. You're just lazy, stop being lazy and look for your own music.
Then stop whining.
Either keep looking for your music and avoid the "crap" mainstream, or stop moaning about what's in the mainstream if that's where you want to be provided with music.
Mainstream, to me is; Foo Fighters, RHCP, U2, stuff like that. I'd much rather have that on the radio than Ratt and Dokken, but that's opinion for you.
"Better" is opinion. You could clog the radiowaves with Dokken, Ratt and whatever else and people may think it's overwhelmingly shit, in their opinion.
So why not just like what you like and let people like what they like? Nobody is forcing you to listen to the radio, you're just a lazy person who wants it all with little effort. Unrealistic, ridiculous idea.
-AC
Again, I know what I like musically. No one needs to tell me that, it's just I DON'T HAVE MUCH MONEY to always buy an album from a particular artist/band I like... So it being on the radio is very convenient, cuz it's free... That means no money needed, obviously...
And the radio has introduced me (I don't like everything, obviously, I just pick and choose what I like from what the stations play) to much of what I like, such as Van Halen, Black Sabbath, Ronnie James Dio, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd (which make up some of the "classic" part of my hair/thrash/classic spectrum)
To be honest, the "seeking out" music thing as you're putting it sounds near to impossible... How can you know what you like if you've never heard it before? The radio is a necessity to find out if you think something is good (either that, or a local band/artist playing it)... The way I do it is I hear a song on the radio, if I think it sounds good, I'll wait to hear what the name of the band is. Then I'll research the band and bands like them. I'll listen to samples online, then I'll make a decision if it's worth the little money I have to spare to buy one of their albums... Again, radio is a necessity... You can't just automatically know you're gonna like something...
And again, I'm not "whining" per se, I just think that the music on the radio should be WAY more diverse (to encompass my musical tastes, obviously, but also for others to have theirs on, too) There's only ONE hard rock station where I live! And like, three hip hop stations! And two pop stations! And hardly NO actual bands! There are plenty of musicians, but no bands playing new stuff... Which is why I think it's beneficial to hard rock where I live if we had that one band to start a new rock scene here... Doesn't have to be huge, but it'd give us something good to listen to...
Originally posted by Bat Dude
Again, I know what I like musically. No one needs to tell me that, it's just I DON'T HAVE MUCH MONEY to always buy an album from a particular artist/band I like... So it being on the radio is very convenient, cuz it's free... That means no money needed, obviously...And the radio has introduced me (I don't like everything, obviously, I just pick and choose what I like from what the stations play) to much of what I like, such as Van Halen, Black Sabbath, Ronnie James Dio, Led Zeppelin, and Pink Floyd (which make up some of the "classic" part of my hair/thrash/classic spectrum)
And back then, when those bands were on the radio (Because remember, all eras have shit mainstream musicians), there were people who didn't like what was mainstream music, or on the radio. It's called personal responsibility in finding what you want.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
To be honest, the "seeking out" music thing as you're putting it sounds near to impossible... How can you know what you like if you've never heard it before? The radio is a necessity to find out if you think something is good (either that, or a local band/artist playing it)... The way I do it is I hear a song on the radio, if I think it sounds good, I'll wait to hear what the name of the band is. Then I'll research the band and bands like them. I'll listen to samples online, then I'll make a decision if it's worth the little money I have to spare to buy one of their albums... Again, radio is a necessity... You can't just automatically know you're gonna like something..
Sorry, but it seems like you just spoke for me. I never listen to the radio, I go out and a take gambles. Sometimes I find an album I like, sometimes I don't. Some decent music magazines may have reviews of an album that sway your decision. The nudge toward something can come from anywhere, even yourself, so long as you're not being a sheep and liking what's popular or what you're told to like. Although that works for some.
You seem to expect the radio to play music you like because you can't afford to buy it, which is utterly ridiculous, and even so, there are so many radio stations out there. Not all play mainstream music.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
And again, I'm not "whining" per se, I just think that the music on the radio should be WAY more diverse (to encompass my musical tastes, obviously, but also for others to have theirs on, too) There's only ONE hard rock station where I live! And like, three hip hop stations! And two pop stations! And hardly NO actual bands! There are plenty of musicians, but no bands playing new stuff... Which is why I think it's beneficial to hard rock where I live if we had that one band to start a new rock scene here... Doesn't have to be huge, but it'd give us something good to listen to...
You have got it the wrong way around. The radio is there to introduce people to music and to market it, not the other way around. If what you like isn't on the radio in any big way, certainly the way YOU want it to be, then it's usually because people largely don't give a shit.
Sorry to say, but that's usually the case. Nobody really gives a shit about Ratt anymore, or that kind of music, not to the point of it being revived.
Radio stations still play Prince. It's just a question of longevity.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
And back then, when those bands were on the radio (Because remember, all eras have shit mainstream musicians), there were people who didn't like what was mainstream music, or on the radio. It's called personal responsibility in finding what you want.Sorry, but it seems like you just spoke for me. I never listen to the radio, I go out and a take gambles. Sometimes I find an album I like, sometimes I don't. Some decent music magazines may have reviews of an album that sway your decision. The nudge toward something can come from anywhere, even yourself, so long as you're not being a sheep and liking what's popular or what you're told to like. Although that works for some.
You seem to expect the radio to play music you like because you can't afford to buy it, which is utterly ridiculous, and even so, there are so many radio stations out there. Not all play mainstream music.
You have got it the wrong way around. The radio is there to introduce people to music and to market it, not the other way around. If what you like isn't on the radio in any big way, certainly the way YOU want it to be, then it's usually because people largely don't give a shit.
Sorry to say, but that's usually the case. Nobody really gives a shit about Ratt anymore, or that kind of music, not to the point of it being revived.
Radio stations still play Prince. It's just a question of longevity.
-AC
I don't think Ronnie James Dio or Black Sabbath were ever mainstream, tbh...
I know not all radio stations play mainstream, and that works great for me, as my personal tastes aren't mainstream anymore... I don't listen to a mainstream station, either... It's just they tend to play more modern stuff (not mainstream, just too modern) then what's worked for 3 decades...
Well stations still play Prince cuz he's legitimately good... I can understand not playing Poison, Warrant, and bands of that era that really kinda sucked, but bands like Dokken and Ratt had legitimate talent, and I think it's a shame that they're hardly on the radio anymore... But hey, if I can find a really cheap Greatest Hits cd, then it might work out... I mean, they still play Creed, why not Ratt?
Originally posted by Bat Dude
I don't think Ronnie James Dio or Black Sabbath were ever mainstream, tbh...
Not by choice, maybe.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
I know not all radio stations play mainstream, and that works great for me, as my personal tastes aren't mainstream anymore... I don't listen to a mainstream station, either... It's just they tend to play more modern stuff (not mainstream, just too modern) then what's worked for 3 decades...
Worked? For you, yes. Rush have "worked" for three decades, Killing Joke, Prince etc. The point is, no matter what longevity you have, popularity is what keeps you on the charts, usually. Prince has made music that is accessible also, therefore eligible not only for music "die hards", but people who don't really care and just want to dance. He has changed, by choice, with the times.
You couldn't play Ratt and be taken seriously. That music was not like Prince, Killing Joke, Rush etc, they were artists who came BEFORE the 80s and just happened to have prominence there. Hair metal and such was very much of its time. It wasn't meant to last.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
Well stations still play Prince cuz he's legitimately good... I can understand not playing Poison, Warrant, and bands of that era that really kinda sucked, but bands like Dokken and Ratt had legitimate talent, and I think it's a shame that they're hardly on the radio anymore... But hey, if I can find a really cheap Greatest Hits cd, then it might work out... I mean, they still play Creed, why not Ratt?
Because Creed are popular, they have a sound that is current, that the people who control the mainstream charts NOW, are into. Ratt did the same back in the day, and it doesn't mean they were good. For some, 80s was the "worst" of all musical eras.
Your taste was best suited for that time, and unfortunately for you, the bands you like were of the moment.
-AC