Originally posted by leonidas
the examples are in wolvie's favor? 😕 that's because you're questioning HIS abilities. as for impartiality, you seem to forget that i already stated on multiple occasions that namor wins this the majority. 7-8/10. you seem to be saying he has no chance to even win one fight when based on what we've seen that clearly shouldn't be the case.
For the record, I'd say Namor takes this 9/10. Victory for Wolverine isn't impossible...just extremely unlikely.
Originally posted by leonidas
laid out be a dumbell? 😑 dd did not ko him with a dumbell. he stunned him then logan was schoolboyed by a fallen body and landed on a sword. no body, no sword, logan is staggered and maybe dd can take him out, maybe not. the elk is cute. so you found 2 inceidents where he was 'ko'd'. got any more? you want consistency, well, find more cases where he was ko'd by these types of attacks. in fact, i defy you to find even 5 more. 3 more. until then, yes, his being ko'd by an elk is pis as it doesn't happen regularly. dd never ko'd him, so no pis there.
Originally posted by leonidas
of course the bone extends beyond your eyes, but they are not enclosed and his claws could certainly follow the optic nerve to his brain.
Originally posted by leonidas
his claws apparently cut through abomination's bone. is namor more durable/invulnerable than abomination? close maybe, but i'd give the edge to abom. and that one scan clearly shows that if he has the chance he CAN penetrate namor's body. i don't get why that is a question.
I just wanted to post this image here, courtesy of DarkCrawler, to illustrate how I think Namor would most likely use a truck, tree, or bus to slam Wolverine. It makes sense, using the logic of Bloodlust, because it is extremely efficient, while leaving little to no room for a counterattack (as Jinzin suggested Namor would necessarily do for some reason, standing next to Wolverine with a truck in his upstretched arms).
In any case, here it is...ownage! Thanks again, DarkCrawler! 🙂
no they can hit eachother ur the one saying wolverine cant hit him when ur prove sucks. seeing how the hulk and much slower people have hit him and wolverine has hit him.
Slow and strong guys like Girder have hit Flash. Now, in actual forum fight, would you say that a guy like Colossus could hit Flash? Flash is hitting multiple lightspeeds in a issue, on the next one he is knocked down by a guy who moves with extremely slow speeds. Same thing with Namor and Wolverine. He dodges lasers while weakened on one issue, still Wolverine is hitting him on next one. Why does this happen? So the comic would sell and every fight would not end with hero dodging everything the villains throw at him. What a boring comic that would be.
Now on forum fights, we don't try to sell our writings. Namor has dodged things that move with multiple Mach speeds - Hell, he is able to do so himself. Logically, Wolverine, who doesn't move close to Mach speeds, should not hit him, and he wouldn't if written correctly.
Namor still remains the faster one. Until I see Wolverine doing anything comparable to jumping from meteor to meteor, or moving his hands with Mach speeds, Namor is faster. And will get the first punch. Which will send Wolverine fly miles...and to be knocked out.
Originally posted by Melnorme
Fair enough. I also didn't note your position, but I didn't doubt it either. I know you to be fair in your assessments. I'm sorry for implying that you weren't impartial in your judgments, that wasn't my intent. I meant that your criticism was a bit one-sided, and I don't think that was fair.
cool. and thanks. no harm done.
[/QUOTE] For the record, I'd say Namor takes this 9/10. Victory for Wolverine isn't impossible...just extremely unlikely.[/QUOTE]
cool. you are of course entitled it. i also said if namor is able to use his environment effectively AND use his lightning, he could take 9 or even all 10. 😉
[/QUOTE]That doesn't sound fair. Why should I need to continue supplying more and more examples until reaching an arbitrary number of your choosing? What happens if I do not? Did those two incidents (the dumbell incident, by the way, ended with Wolverine declaring that his head had cleared several panels later...sounds like a KO to me [and did he trip over a body?]) simply never happen unless I meet your unfair standard? I think not.[/QUOTE]
depends: do you want to convincingly show that wolverine's being taken out by something like the elk (elk??) truly IS consistent? if that is your claim (and you SEEMED to be contending that he has been shown to consistently be taken down by these sorts of shots) then you need some more proof. for my part, i contended that wolvie is consistently more durable than that and many scans showing his durability have been shown. that's what i was trying to get at.
oh, and yeah, he did trip over a body. and even lying ON the sword, he still was talking to dd -- that CAN'T be a ko if he's talking, can it?😕
[/QUOTE]Based on my knowledge of human physiology, I'm a bit dubious of this claim. Would you be able to provide an explanation so that I can better understand your position on this?.[/QUOTE]
it's a non-issue, as the attack that was proposed is unrealistic, but . . . i just don't think it would be that difficult for his claw to simply follow the path of the optic nerve right to the brain. like i said, it's a non-issue, but here's a link that shows the bones around the eye and the nerve passing between them to the brain.
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/images/4453/4453-12596-42075-42118.jpg
[/QUOTE]I'm not sure if Namor's bones are tougher than the Abominations, but without proof that Wolverine is able to cut through his unique bones, I remain skeptical. [/QUOTE]
but why would you need proof that he could cut his bones when he has cut through many materials that are debateably as tough or perhaps tougher? and would he NEED to cut his bones to win? why not simply a great gash across the throat? claws to the eyes or ear? a single claw to the heart? (a sword was driven into wolvie's heart and his bones are adamantium laced, so wolvie could conceiveably do the same to namor.)
Originally posted by leonidas
depends: do you want to convincingly show that wolverine's being taken out by something like the elk (elk??) truly IS consistent? if that is your claim (and you SEEMED to be contending that he has been shown to consistently be taken down by these sorts of shots) then you need some more proof. for my part, i contended that wolvie is consistently more durable than that and many scans showing his durability have been shown. that's what i was trying to get at.
Is that sound?
Originally posted by leonidas
oh, and yeah, he did trip over a body. and even lying ON the sword, he still was talking to dd -- that CAN'T be a ko if he's talking, can it?😕
Originally posted by leonidas
but why would you need proof that he could cut his bones when he has cut through many materials that are debateably as tough or perhaps tougher? and would he NEED to cut his bones to win? why not simply a great gash across the throat? claws to the eyes or ear? a single claw to the heart? (a sword was driven into wolvie's heart and his bones are adamantium laced, so wolvie could conceiveably do the same to namor.)
<<Yes, but my point is that if he can get knocked out by gunshots and elk and Daredevil (up to three examples now) that these examples cannot be arbitrarily dismissed. Yes, for plot purposes, it would be stupid to have Wolverine knocked out every single time the Hulk hits him, just as it would be stupid to have the Flash just pull himself out of the way of every attack thrown at him. But plot-driven resolutions to battles have no place here. If Wolverine can be knocked out by those things, then it stands to reason that something that is orders of magnitude more powerful can at least possibly knock him out.
Is that sound?>>
absolutely it's sound, but then you gotta be willing to accept the same from namor's pov -- ie -- it can't be dismissed that namor has repeatedly been struck by characters very similar to wolverine. which is all i was getting at with my examples. i seriously always try to go by most consistent showings when trying to decide who would win these battles, rather than think only of high showings.
based on what i know of how both have been consistently depicted (and i have a load of both wolvie and namor books) i would say namor would certainly take most of the fights, but that it's not impossible for wolverine to get a couple wins that wouldn't necessarily be labelled pis/cis.
<<You have a good point. Wolverine wouldn't need to stab him through the eye and into the brain (a very small aperture, by the way, which is what I was driving at...that illustration doesn't really tell the tale) or through the bones...if he can get through his skin, he can probably slash him in the throat. But that's still a tall order.>>
😄
Originally posted by leonidas
<<Yes, but my point is that if he can get knocked out by gunshots and elk and Daredevil (up to three examples now) that these examples cannot be arbitrarily dismissed. Yes, for plot purposes, it would be stupid to have Wolverine knocked out every single time the Hulk hits him, just as it would be stupid to have the Flash just pull himself out of the way of every attack thrown at him. But plot-driven resolutions to battles have no place here. If Wolverine can be knocked out by those things, then it stands to reason that something that is orders of magnitude more powerful can at least possibly knock him out.Is that sound?>>
absolutely it's sound, but then you gotta be willing to accept the same from namor's pov -- ie -- it can't be dismissed that namor has repeatedly been struck by characters very similar to wolverine. which is all i was getting at with my examples. i seriously always try to go by most consistent showings when trying to decide who would win these battles, rather than think only of high showings.
based on what i know of how both have been consistently depicted (and i have a load of both wolvie and namor books) i would say namor would certainly take most of the fights, but that it's not impossible for wolverine to get a couple wins that wouldn't necessarily be labelled pis/cis.
<<You have a good point. Wolverine wouldn't need to stab him through the eye and into the brain (a very small aperture, by the way, which is what I was driving at...that illustration doesn't really tell the tale) or through the bones...if he can get through his skin, he can probably slash him in the throat. But that's still a tall order.>>
😄
It's common (and very well known) comic etiquette to slightly "equalize" two heroes powersets if they fight in a comic book. Just so neither looks too bad.
No matter how many times something happens, if it's PIS, it's PIS.
Originally posted by long pig
It's common (and very well known) comic etiquette to slightly "equalize" two heroes powersets if they fight in a comic book. Just so neither looks too bad.No matter how many times something happens, if it's PIS, it's PIS.
which is of course why we don't base opinion on only the direct match ups of heroes. there's been plenty of evidence thrown out that relates to their battles against other heroes AND villains. wolverine v abomination as an indicator, for just one (wolverine based) example.
i just think people throw around the term pis a bit too liberally, especially in cases where it shows evidence contrary to the point someone else is trying to make.
Originally posted by leonidas
which is of course why we don't base opinion on only the direct match ups of heroes. there's been plenty of evidence thrown out that relates to their battles against other heroes AND villains. wolverine v abomination as an indicator, for just one (wolverine based) example.i just think people throw around the term pis a bit too liberally, especially in cases where it shows evidence contrary to the point someone else is trying to make.
But, could Wolverine cut Namor? Easily. Very, very easily.
I just don't see him getting the chance.
Originally posted by leonidas
absolutely it's sound, but then you gotta be willing to accept the same from namor's pov -- ie -- it can't be dismissed that namor has repeatedly been struck by characters very similar to wolverine. which is all i was getting at with my examples. i seriously always try to go by most consistent showings when trying to decide who would win these battles, rather than think only of high showings.based on what i know of how both have been consistently depicted (and i have a load of both wolvie and namor books) i would say namor would certainly take most of the fights, but that it's not impossible for wolverine to get a couple wins that wouldn't necessarily be labelled pis/cis.
Fair enough, and I think we're on the same page here. You and Dizzle have both given me some things to think about as far as how these bouts should be regarded, and for this, I thank you (both). 🙂
