Scathan the Approver vs The Living Tribunal

I reviewed this scenario more thoroughly some time after this thread,
and my opinion had changed.

I haven't thought Scathan > LT for a while,
and was compelled to see it at LT = Scathan (in some undefined form)
or perhaps not, it may be Scathan > LT ... you decide. 🙂

To begin with,

the LT was definitely weaker than Protege:

=================================

After Protege copied LT's power,
Beyonder stated "on the boy rests the fate of any and all realities"

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The writer gives us the reactions of the LT, Eternity, Scathan and Hawgod.

The LT's conclusion is ... "logical confirmation"

So the LT himself agrees!

...........................................................................

...........................................................................

Here Eternity states that Scathan's "purpose
is to record and approve of what transpires"

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Here the LT seems to know Protege has now surpassed his power.

Protege notices the LT, Eternity, Hawkgod and GOTG are joining against him,
so Protege summoned Mephisto and his daughter to attack the GOTG,
'Talon' was wearing the 'Ancient One's Amulet' ...
the LT actually states he/they may need it later against Protege:

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Protege attacks the LT, Eternity, Hawgod and GOTG,
they all seem to be getting stomped (LT looks peculiar ... but he's there)

The only one NOT there is 'Scathan'

...........................................................................

Now Scathan appears again on panel
with authority and majesty:

Protege is rendered in-affective:

...........................................................................

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The LT hands down his judgement on Protege:

The LT states that "power is meaningless beyond this level of existence"
which is true, because the next step is "God"

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The LT absorbs Protege into the 'Eternal Hourglass' which lies within the LT:

Again,
it's Scathan that has the last say in the matter (sorta speak)

"And so it ends, and Scathan approves"

=================================

This is proof that Protege had surpassed the LT in power.

Evidently what the LT said earlier was true,
they were indeed going to need the 'Ancient One's Amulet'
the LT specifically.

Here we learn that the LT was using the 'Ancient One's Amulet'
as a source of power to increase his own in order to deal with judging Protege:

===================================

As for the Handbook account:

(excerpts from the official Marvel Handbook - LT bio 2006)

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LT's bio states that only TOAA is superior to the LT

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LT's bio also corroborates what took place on panel in the GOTG arc,
it also clearly states that Scathan saved Realty:

srugdoped

Since Protege was absorbed into LT, does that mean that LT now is stronger than Protege could be since he has all of his abilities as well?

Whoah, never considered that one. Maybe nvr was on to something about the LT being upgraded.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

Since Protege was absorbed into LT,
does that mean that LT now is stronger than Protege
could be since he has all of his abilities as well?

But it doesn't seem like Protege was absorbed per se,
the Eternal Hourglass (whatever that is) is what imprisoned Protege,
it seems he'll be lost there for ever, and yes within the LT.

Or maybe he was nullified in way, once within the Hourglass:

"Cosmic Time begins anew
bearing away all it encounters"

I'm not absolutely sure,
but it seems to me,
he was rubbed out of Time, or trapped within Time.

Perhaps that's why it's called the "Eternal Hourglass"

But isn't it part of the LT? So that means he's inside of it, and could call on his powers if need be?

LT is known for summoning other powers to fight for him, in those scans you posted he was using that amulet, when he faced Ereshkigal with the Star Brand he threatened to "summon the most powerful forces in the multiverse to destroy her", he summonded a bunch of cosmics and other beings to fight Thanos with the HOTU, etc.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

But isn't it part of the LT? So that means he's inside of it,
and could call on his powers if need be?

On Panel nothing further was divulged,
and the Handbooks haven't clarified anything further.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

LT is known for summoning other powers to fight for him, in those scans you posted he was using that amulet, when he faced Ereshkigal with the Star Brand he threatened to "summon the most powerful forces in the multiverse to destroy her", he summonded a bunch of cosmics and other beings to fight Thanos with the HOTU, etc.

Well, not now actually, cause technically,
that event hasn't happened in real time yet.

That's the 31st Century.

Not sure , but the way i see it....unless you are the supreme being in the comic book setting ie TOAA in Marvel i guess, then surely all others below will either upgrade or down grade over time , due to either an increase/decrease in relevance... of course the supreme being ,by nature is all that is, was, and will be so any talk of upgrade/downgrade is arguementative..

cheers 😱

But LT can travel in all timelines and percieves time non-linearly. When he confronted Adam Warlock he already knew the result since he wasn't limited by time.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

But LT can travel in all timelines and percieves time non-linearly.
When he confronted Adam Warlock he already knew the result since he wasn't limited by time.

No, I think it's best we distinguish the past, present and future accordingly,
lest we end up in said paradox's like I just pointed out.

@ Mr Master: According to the scans you provided, Scathan is greater than the Living Tribunal. However, like I stated earlier in this thread, that contradicts LT's position as second only to TOAA. I would like to see the full last five pages of the Protege encounter so I can properly analyze the context of the this story.

Also, if it is in the future, doesn't that mean it's just another possible reality of the main universe?

Originally posted by Air Legend

@ Mr Master: According to the scans you provided, Scathan is greater than the
Living Tribunal. However, like I stated earlier in this thread, that contradicts LT's position as second only to TOAA.

It's a contradiction, within a contradiction really,
cause the asininity goes further by literally including both details within the same bio.

Originally posted by Air Legend

I would like to see the full last five pages of the Protege encounter so I can properly analyze the context of the this story.

Actually I just checked the issue,
all the relevant pages of #50 are there, including the last 5 pages.

Originally posted by Air Legend

Also, if it is in the future,
doesn't that mean it's just another possible reality of the main universe?

I mean, he could've been a new creation, a new evolved Celestial,
an agent of TOAA, a Conceptual representation of "approval/disapproval"
etc.

Originally posted by Mr Master
...........................................................................

The LT hands down his judgement on Protege:

The LT states that "power is meaningless beyond this level of existence"
which is true, because the next step is "God"

...........................................................................

The LT absorbs Protege into the 'Eternal Hourglass' which lies within the LT:

Again,
it's Scathan that has the last say in the matter (sorta speak)

"And so it ends, and Scathan approves"

=================================

This is [b]proof that Protege had surpassed the LT in power.

Evidently what the LT said earlier was true,
they were indeed going to need the 'Ancient One's Amulet'
the LT specifically.

Here we learn that the LT was using the 'Ancient One's Amulet'
as a source of power to increase his own in order to deal with judging Protege:

[/B]

Scathan>Protege>Lt.

I havent read this in a long time but I see I have been underestimating the Protege this entire time. There were such powerful beings in this story.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Protege attacked the LT it seems.

No he didn't, he was possibly on his way to but as this scan clearly shows

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/441437/Pro6.jpg.html

Protege is launched forward, attacked from behind by Scathan that we a moment later finds out does not approve of what Protege was about to do.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Prior to Protege duplicating and attacking them, with Scathan present, Living Tribunal flat-out states that there is only one above him.

This is also confirmed in the Living Tribunal's handbook.
So if Scathan isn't more powerfull than the Living Tribunal, then why would the Living Tribunal need its help ? 😬

Oh wait, Scathan has 'teh celestial muzzle' which somehow pwns Protege. 😂

I find this character vastly overrated on this forum. In the end, what did he do ? Use the celestial muzzle on Protege, somehow blinding him from what transpires and then held him while Living Tribunal owned him.

Meh .. whatever.

And in the very same book it's stated that Protege and Scathan surpasses him, It's self contradicting, unless Scathan was Toaa in Disguise and Protege too. It's a comic book that will most likely always be the fundament of discussions.

Originally posted by Utrigita
No he didn't, he was possibly on his way to but as this scan clearly shows

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/441437/Pro6.jpg.html

Protege is launched forward, attacked from behind by Scathan that we a moment later finds out does not approve of what Protege was about to do.

Originally posted by Mr Master
👆

It's a contradiction, within a contradiction really,
cause the asininity goes further by literally including both details within the same bio.

*edit*

Actually I just checked the issue,
all the relevant pages of #50 are there, including the last 5 pages.

Yes. That's why I was telling Mike we should only consider Scathan when specifically requested,
otherwise, there's no reason he should be included with the Celestials of 616,
since his first appearance on panel was in the 31st century.

I mean, he could've been a new creation, a new evolved Celestial,
an agent of TOAA, a Conceptual representation of "approval/disapproval"
etc.