Originally posted by King Kandy
The cosmic vortex is infinite.So is the Multiverse.
So is the Omniverse.
They are all intended to mean everything in marvel. You cannot draw a line between the same concept.
marvel does. they have different lvls of infinity. the universe is infinite. The multiverse is infinite universes. and the omniverse is infinite multiverses. and mega verses some how are bigger yet and still than multiverses. and marvel also has different lvls of omnipotent. So um yeah, the multiverse of yesterday is the same multiverse and from it, has developed an omniverse. like planting a seed and from it an entire garden grows.
Originally posted by King Kandy
More like cutting a cake in five pieces and then saying that it is five times as large.But I have to leave this debate now... I'm running out of ways to say the same thing.
I dont' make the rules. marvel makes this shit up. can't have it both ways. I've always said one universe can easily be equal to an entire multiverse. Since both are infinite. But that is not how it works.
There are several illogical things and yet funny at the same time because somebody actually belives them.
Take this for example :
So ... 20-25 Quintillions is a pretty big number above Infinity I'd say.
I really hope I'm not the only one seeing something illogical here. I'm not even going to bother to comment on that, since there's no really need for it.
Of course , somebody will probably bring the "different levels of infinity" scan , which again , even after I've explained what it means , they still don't want to understand and still go by "There are different levels of Omnipotence/Infinity !!11 Marvel established that !!!11".
Next is the fact that Molecule Man doesn't even exist since he has been retconned , yet he is still been used in the vs forum . The writers were actually intelligent enough and point out the fact that he wasn't that strong, yet he is still used . In fact , it is even illogical to be that strong due to the definition of his power and his range of abilities . Not to mention that even pre-retcon he had been stated to be near Omnipotent .
Just putting Molecule Man against current Living Tribunal brings certain contradictions such as the fact that current Living Tribunal has been established to not be weaker than Molecule Man during Secret Wars while pre-retcon Molecule Man has been established to be the second strongest being , second only to Beyonder thus stronger than the Living Tribunal . Not to mention that during the pre-retcon Beyonder & Molecule Man era Living Tribunal was overseeing only one Multiverse .
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Next is the fact that Molecule Man doesn't even exist since he has been retconned , yet he is still been used in the vs forum . The writers were actually intelligent enough and point out the fact that he wasn't that strong, yet he is still used . In fact , it is even illogical to be that strong due to the definition of his power and his range of abilities . Not to mention that even pre-retcon he had been stated to be [b]near Omnipotent .Just putting Molecule Man against current Living Tribunal brings certain contradictions such as the fact that current Living Tribunal has been established to not be weaker than Molecule Man during Secret Wars while pre-retcon Molecule Man has been established to be the second strongest being , second only to Beyonder thus stronger than the Living Tribunal . Not to mention that during the pre-retcon Beyonder & Molecule Man era Living Tribunal was overseeing only one Multiverse . [/B]
I agree why are we still using rectonned characters in debates they are the only retconned Characters that we use.
The current States between LT and MM and Beyonder are contradictions I agree. As I see it I can at some point agree that Beyonder would be greater then LT but I fail to see how MM could be greater for that very reason that MM was the strongest in the Multiverse in 86 after Beyonder and yet today in 07 Beyonders department of the "omniverse" is watched over by the LT that would according to me implicate that LT has archived some sort of power upgrade and before anyone start scream that LT hasn't received a Upgrade then I would like to mention that it means that all the time he has been second ONLY to TOAA, some would argue that Beyonder in 86 was TOAA I can agree at some point but I wouldn't agree that MM is above the Current LT as for Beyonder Its another discussion for another time.
So Erik... Agreed
Originally posted by UtrigitaThe current States between LT and MM and Beyonder are contradictions I agree. As I see it I can at some point agree that Beyonder would be greater then LT but I fail to see how MM could be greater for that very reason that MM was the strongest in the Multiverse in 86 after Beyonder and yet today in 07 Beyonders department of the "omniverse" is watched over by the LT that would according to me implicate that LT has archived some sort of power upgrade and before anyone start scream that LT hasn't received a Upgrade then I would like to mention that it means that all the time he has been second ONLY to TOAA, some would argue that Beyonder in 86 was TOAA I can agree at some point but I wouldn't agree that MM is above the Current LT as for Beyonder Its another discussion for another time.
TOAA shouldn't even be brought up because there was no mention of TOAA back then, but if you want to include TOAA then one can say that TOAA wrote Classic Beyonder and Classic MM to be greater than the rest just like TOAA wrote Scathan to be greater than the LT.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
There are several illogical things and yet funny at the same time because somebody actually belives them.Take this for example :
I [b]really
hope I'm not the only one seeing something illogical here. I'm not even going to bother to comment on that, since there's no really need for it.Of course , somebody will probably bring the "different levels of infinity" scan , which again , even after I've explained what it means , they still don't want to understand and still go by "There are different levels of Omnipotence/Infinity !!11 Marvel established that !!!11".
Next is the fact that Molecule Man doesn't even exist since he has been retconned , yet he is still been used in the vs forum . The writers were actually intelligent enough and point out the fact that he wasn't that strong, yet he is still used . In fact , it is even illogical to be that strong due to the definition of his power and his range of abilities . Not to mention that even pre-retcon he had been stated to be near Omnipotent .
Just putting Molecule Man against current Living Tribunal brings certain contradictions such as the fact that current Living Tribunal has been established to not be weaker than Molecule Man during Secret Wars while pre-retcon Molecule Man has been established to be the second strongest being , second only to Beyonder thus stronger than the Living Tribunal . Not to mention that during the pre-retcon Beyonder & Molecule Man era Living Tribunal was overseeing only one Multiverse . [/B]
Once again, you take what I've been saying and make it so plain.
Current in terms of power:
LT
Beyonder
MM
Classic in terms of power
Beyonder
MM
LT
Current LT curb stomps MM.
Why the hell does everyone keep making classic MM vs threads.
😒 No one can compare to him other than the beyonder. And alot of characters especially them have been retconned.
Let go of the past he was the dog then but LT of today shits on him as a part time job.
And whoever said a definite number beats infinity..
Originally posted by SpiderGauntletI'm glad others are startin to see what I been saying for two years.
Current in terms of power:
LT
Beyonder
MMClassic in terms of power
Beyonder
MM
LTCurrent LT curb stomps MM.
Why the hell does everyone keep making classic MM vs threads.
😒 No one can compare to him other than the beyonder. And alot of characters especially them have been retconned.
Let go of the past he was the dog then but LT of today shits on him as a part time job.And whoever said a definite number beats infinity..
Originally posted by King Kandy
100% agreed. I even tried to have them removed from the hierarchy.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The LT is a scary being. This is proof that the 616 can't be the back bone of the marvel multiverse and omniverse if he would so easily replace one with the other.
That's just proof of how powerful the LT is.
Awesome feat indeed.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Or he would be so mighty as to actually change the physical make up of the entire Marvel u by just making the Ultimate verse the Spine of marvel.
👆 Now you got it.
Like LT said:
"I ... who could be All ... must be but a part ... I must be apart"
Originally posted by King Kandy
Please don't add "Must". You know as well as I do that that is total speculation.
Actually by me adding "must" insinuates speculation but with a high probability of being fact.
There are Two specific scans in GOTG #49 that strongly allude to it being fact,
yet, I agree, it is speculation in the end cause Marvel hasn't made it concrete.
But what else would explain the Fact that,
"LT's only superior is the TOAA" in his bio?
Just sayin.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No. There was no omniverse back in the day. So he couldn't be omniversal when none existed. that doesn't make a bit of sense.
You keep saying this and you keep falling into a ditch with it.
There was the Multiverse ... and there was the Beyond Realm.
The Beyond Realm encompassesed everything outside the Multiverse.
And what is outside the Multiverse today?
The rest of the Omniverse. 🙂
So there's always been an Omniverse, only Beyonder was most of it.
Originally posted by Mr Master
You keep saying this and you keep falling into a ditch with it.There was the Multiverse ... and there was the Beyond Realm.
The Beyond Realm encompassesed everything outside the Multiverse.
And what is outside the Multiverse today?
The rest of the Omniverse. 🙂
So there's always been an Omniverse, only Beyonder was most of it.
Actually I understand that. But the point is, the LT wasn't over that wrealm that the beyonder was. And the Beyonder didn't have exclusive rights on the multiverse back then. As of now, the LT has reign over everything the beyonder was, and the Multiverse of the 616.
Originally posted by King Kandy
The Omniverse and the Multiverse are two sides of the same coin.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Two names for the same essence.
K, what is this? Are you messing with Nvr?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No. the multiverse is a collection of universes. An omniverse is a collection of multiverses and mega verses. Not similiar at all. not the same.
I ... agree.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The omniverse of today is NOT the multiverse of yesterday.
It's a bit confusing, and it all derives from Beyonder's crappy retcon.
In a sense you're right, but not fully.
The Multiverse did expand from just being an infinite amount of UniverseS,
to being collections of MultiverseS called Megaverses.
But this is the thing,
the Beyonder was the embodiment of all the real estate outside the first Multiverse.
So what Marvel did, was replace the Beyond Realm (everything outside of the Multiverse)
with all the other Multiverses of today.
The Beyond Realm was not nullified though, it still exists,
and the Beyonder is still the embodiment there.
(It's a Universe, but weaker than one of Eternity's Universes)
The BeyonderS do not reside within the Beyond Realm and have nothing to do with it,
the Universe of the BeyonderS has no name and is located in a lightless Reality,
that can be reached through the Negative Zone.
Originally posted by Air Legend
You're not making any sense at all. Because the retcon happened, it means that the LT was second to TOAA the whole time. Think about it, who else was above the LT besides Classic Molecule Man and Classic Beyonder? Nobody, and they were both retconned so LT kept his 2nd to TOAA status the whole time.TOAA shouldn't even be brought up because there was no mention of TOAA back then, but if you want to include TOAA then one can say that TOAA wrote Classic Beyonder and Classic MM to be greater than the rest just like TOAA wrote Scathan to be greater than the LT.
No because there has happend no retcon to LT then he would in theory been second to TOAA the entire time. Also I think I made it perfectly clear that current LT would be above Pre Retcon MM but most likely wouldn't be below Pre Recton Beyonder, because of LT now having authority over the Omniverse that prior was Beyonders, but is now LT's that means that Beyonders power would most likely had been added to LT thus making LT more powerful then MM.
